Potentially Incendiary: Overhand Rights All-time Heavyweight Top 10

[hawk5ins]

More heart than Cobb? More heart then Chuvalo? More Heart than Quarry?

Had it not been for the fouls, Bowe takes his beating and gets TWO losses. Bowe didn't win the bouts. Golota lost them. Riddick ain't getting credit for Golota Blowing two layups.

Everyone else's fault.

When do fighters, who are in the prime of thier careers, take responsibility for their actions? Where is the accountability? For the love of pete.

Hawk

[apollack]

"The only heavyweight fight in history, that comes to my mind anyway, where a fighter showed comparable courage under such a one sided beating was Williard in Toledo."

And Willard quit on the stool. Bowe did not and would not.

A win is a win is a win, and the fact that he got it the same way twice tells me it was no fluke. And he didn't need a gift decision either. He literally got Golota to TWICE quit the fight. Everyone knows if you keep intentionally fouling you are going to get dq'd. Golota knew exactly what he was doing. He wouldn't have done that if those fights hadn't been so grueling. What people forget is that Golota took a serious beating in those fights too. People forget that because the beating Bowe took was worse. How many heavyweight fighters in history took that type of beating and still managed to land as many bombs as Bowe did and WIN?

[hawk5ins]

THat is the first interpretation that it was specifically something Bowe did as to why Golota quit twice, that I have heard.

Was it a fluke?

Absolutely not.

Golota's a flake. And an idiot.

"Bowe MADE him quit."

That's a first.

Oh well.

Hawk

[HE Grant]

No one is questioning his heart. His toughness is another story. His conditioning and dedicatio were inconsistant at best and other than at Holyfield 1 never top of the line.

Bowe beat Holyfield in their third bout by the skin of his teeth and while Evander was suffering through some wierd physical series of aliments. We'll never know the true story buy Evander was exhausted after six rounds and could not stand. Very strange. I've heard everything all you guys did but the same guy that went 11 strong against Tyson a few years later had nothing for Bowe 3. Even in the bout where he regained thew title from Moorer Evander looked like he was fighting underwater. Evander obviously did strange things to his body and for a number of years it rebelled against him in openly obvious ways.

[JBS]

"And Williard quit on the stool."

It has always been my understanding (and maybe I'm wrong here) that Williard wanted to come out for the 4th round. His handlers wouldn't allow it.

I think the fact that Golota couldn't get Bowe out of there demoralized him so much that he was looking for an out. Especially in the 2nd fight. I remember one point in the second fight when the ref warned Golota about his tactics he leaned his head against the referee's shoulder and the ref pushed him back to keep fighting. It always seemed to me that he wanted to quit right there and his gesture was an appeal for the ref to stop it.

[hawk5ins]

There is no WAY I'm going to crawl inside of Golota's coconut and try and figure what was going on up inside there.

But there was NOTHING that Bowe did around the time of EACH DQ that made you say: He;s getting to him or he has Golota frustrated. Nothing.

A man who feels like he is going to lose will find a desperate way to escape. Golota was NOT in that position. Tired? Maybe that's an exscuse, I won't try to guess. But there wasn't anything Bowe was doing to him, nor was Bowe in cntrol in either bout, that would have caused Golota to quit.

What was it? I have NO idea. And I know no one else, INCLUDING Golota, as any Idea either.

Hawk

[greek1237]

Willard took a bad beating vs Dempsey. MUCH worse than Bowe in the first round.

I also put Marciano vs Walcott in fight 1, when the Rock got blinded. That 11th round was amazing. How Rocky not get ko in round 11, I never known.

Ali vs Fraizer, and Fraizer vs Ali in the 3rd fight was much worse than Bowe's beating.

How about Jim Jeffies vs Johnson?? Other beating thats worse than the one bowe got. Tex stop it, Jeff was not counted out. of couse the storys of the 2nd Fitz fights comes into play also with the loaded gloves.

I dont think Bowe's showing of heart should be in the top 5. It was good. But he was not taking a beating as bad as Jeff or Willard were.

[JBS]

"There is NO way to crawl to inside Golata's coconut and try to figure out what was going on up inside there."

I disagree. In between rounds his handlers were beseeching him to not even throw punches below the neck because he had the fight so well in hand. Whereupon he continually went out after the bell and threw low blows. I thought it was very obvious the guy was self destructing and just wanted to get out of there.

I don't think one had to crawl inside Golata's 'coconut' to try and figure out what was going on up there. The guy was so loosely wired up in there, that like all basket cases, it was very obvious when he was having a mental breakdown.

[Kid Achilles]

Bowe showed a lot of heart, but not more than Willard. If Bowe had his cheek bone sunken in like Willard did, and several bruised ribs and missing teeth, I seriously doubt he'd fight on. It's one thing to fight through being rocked by a decent puncher like Golota, but actual structural damage to your body and loss of blood takes the cake and puts even the sternest fighting heart to the test. Dempsey absoultely destroyed Willard, physically mutilated him. Golota just gave Bowe a bad beating.

That's a lot of heart, but nothing like what Willard showed.

[Kid Achilles]

Agreed JBS. He simply became unhinged and did not want to deal with the pressures of being in a boxing ring at the moment. He had zero compsure at that point and could not deal with the physical, emotional, and otherwise stress of the moment.

[hawk5ins]

Was self destructing. I just don't think any of us have any idea why.

Bowe was not doing anything to HIM, that you can say, "Alright, Riddick's getting to him. Andrew can't take it and is looking for a way out"

The "moment" was getting to him. But I don't think ANY OF US, can define what this MOMENT was for Golota.

Hawk

[HE Grant]

Golata was a freak, plain and simple.

[hagler04]

Was self destructing. I just think any of us have any idea why.

Bowe was not doing anything to HIM, that you can say, "Alright, Riddick's getting to him. Andrew can't take it and is looking for a way out"

The "moment" was getting to him. But I don't think ANY OF US, can define what this MOMENT was for Golota.

Hawk

I think you could def. say Bowe was getting to him by just sticking around. Golota was bleeding and exhausted. Bowe, even in that 9th round, landed a few hard counter shots to Golota's face. Andrew couldn't take the pressure and poise of a tough fight. He showed it in the Tyson and Grant fights as well. It happened enough times that you can def. make some judgements about Golota's state of mind and being as a fighter in a tough situation.

[hawk5ins]

I keep hearing Golota was "in a tough situation" when he quit. Someone brek it down for me. What was Bowe doing at the time Golota blew a gasket twice? Being there?

C'mon. By that token, I can argue why he didn't quit earlier. Or when Actally faced leather and fire.

He summed it up best. Golota was a freak.

nuff said

Hawk

[Kid Achilles]

hawk5ins, read my post above. Exactly what I meant, it was just the moment and not much on Bowe's part. Golota just couldn't take being in a boxing match at that moment. He could have been in there with a light heavyweight and he probably would have freaked out just the same. Some people (most people) weren't made to handle the enormous stress and pressure of being a professional fighter. Golota is one of them, but his case is even more severe. He has a great big athletic body, but such a fragile mind. It makes me sad to see him in boxing; he doesn't belong there.

He will probably come back, and continue to fail and humiliate himself, because he needs the money. It's a very sad case. I wouldn't call Golota a freak, just a very psychologically fragile individual who has a hard enough time coping with society, let alone a professional fighter punching him in the face.

[hawk5ins]

First bout agianst Bowe, the first low blow with whihc he lost points on? He JUST staggers Bowe into the ropes with a wicked right hand and the NEXT punch of his is a left hook to the groin.

Golota is in COMPLETE control here and has Bowe hurt, and he does this unbeleivably stupid action. I have no idea what the actual Stress of the moment could have been for Golota.

And in no way am I going to try and theorize WHY he did it, becuase NO ONE knows.

Freak? Maybe Retarded is a better description.

All I know is, when I hear someone want to actually give credit to Bowe for winning these two bouts, becuase, "It's not a fluke, Golota DQ'd himself for a reason" as if it was BOWE that was the reason for him tarding out. Well, I just simply don't get that at all.

Bowe get's ZERO credit in my book for these two bouts. If ANYTHING, he gets some serious dings.

Hawk

[Cojimar 1945]

The fact that Golota was thrashing Bowe on both occassions says bad things about Bowe's ability. Lewis crushed Golota in a single round and Grant and Brewster also stopped Golota.