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Thread: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

  1. #1
    Fat Abbot
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    Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    At Middleweight, say the Jones of the Tate fight with the experience of going the distance against Hopkins and Castro in previous fights.

    I'd pick Jones by wide decision, Monzon was too slow to get past Jones' lightning quick reflexes.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    You have Roy doing what to whom? Shit, man. I was having a good day.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    I have a feeling Abbot would also pick Jones over say, Joe Louis or Joe Frazier.

  4. #4
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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Nope.

    He'd destroy Frazier p4p though.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Well I respect your opinion more than Max Kellerman's then. ; )

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    I say Jones. At middleweight, Roy had speed and power, and was just too fast for Monzon. Roy on a slow day would look blazing fast when compared to Monzon.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    I almost can't believe what I'm reading. Roy Jones over Carlos Monzon???!!!

    Monzon would kill him-- grind him up, break him down and break him apart. 15 seconds into the fight, Jones would switch from running to running in terror and after 7-8 rounds of panic, would succumb.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    I don't know. When was the last time you watched Monzon footage? What great fighter did he beat with anywhere near the speed and power of a Roy Jones? Monzon was pretty conventional, strong, but fairly slow, and not particularly all that busy. I think if Roy could embarrass Toney, decision Hopkins, he definitely could decision Monzon.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    How about Rodrigo Valdez? He had Jones-like power in both hands and wasn't slow about it, but Monzon spanked him twice (a late-in-his-career-peering-down-that-proverbial-hill Monzon, at that).
    I'm not sure who I'd choose, but Carlos definitely had the size, reach, power, toughness, and smarts to give a one-talent (speed) wonder like RJJ hell.
    Come to think of it, since we finally saw Roy's response to clean shots to the chin, I'll say Monzon tires him out and beats him down in about twelve or thirteen rounds. PeteLeo.

  10. #10
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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Comparing Valdez to Jones is like comparing Shavers to Louis, sure their power was comparable ad maybe Shavers had more 1 punch KO power, but in every other aspect of fighting Shavers and Valdez were so far behind the other that they're incomparable.

    Valdez was a one dimensional puncher that just looked to land 1 big one against Monzon.

    Even if you take Jones power completely out of the equation Monzon would still have fits with the disparity in speed, skills and reflexes between the 2. Add Jones power into a mix and he'd likely get discouraged real fast after eating dozens of counters early on while missing wildly with everything he threw.

    Jones did eventually get KO'd twice at LH, when his reflexes were shot, but you can't exactly fault him for that when Monzon never even moved up to LH and instead feasted on welterweights moving up.

    Even Valdez was tiny for a middleweight, at 5'9 with chicken legs and a skinny upperbody he looked more like a big 140lber to me.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    The question was something like: name one great fighter Monzon beat who had near the speed and power of Jones? You don't read these things too closely, do you?
    Apparently even you admit Valdez had something close to or surpassing Jones power. He wasn't as fast, but who was?
    When did Monzon EVER "miss wildly" in a fight? Have you watched any of his films? The guy was control personified, he had timing, he had reach, and he had strength. Timing can beat speed if utilized properly (oh yes, it can). Roy Jones fought NO ONE with the attributes of a Monzon, and I doubt that he would have hung around the division long enough to get into the ring with Carlos.
    By the way, that "skinny welterweight" Valdez spent the best part of his career between 157 and 163 pounds. The middleweight limit -- if you've forgotten -- is 160, while the welter limit is 147. I'd like to see you try to squeeze the muscular Valdez back down into Napoles territory. PeteLeo.
    Last edited by PeteLeo; 09-26-2006 at 02:57 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Never mentioned Roys power, actually. Never made that near the speed comparison either.

    If you wanna compare their power, or even say that valdez hit a bit harder, I have no qualms with that. But Valdez had average handspeed , so I don't see how you can compare him to Jones under the pretense of speed and power, power alone yes, but speed? Hardly.

    Monzon never fought anyone with the speed and reflexes of Jones, the most notable fighters that he countered like Valdez and Napoles came straight at him. Jones would be offering speed, reflexes, movement and defense that Monzon never saw before .

    Monzon had no reach over Jones and with his slow hands it's doubtful he could time at all the complete boxer puncher package that Roy brought to the table. Jones fought plenty of guys that were just as fast or faster than Monzon, many guys with similar or better power and many fighters that were just as touigh.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Roy Jones never fought anyone who possessed all of the attributes Monzon did, to the degree that he possessed them. Name me these many guys who were as good as Monzon.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Quote Originally Posted by apollack
    I don't know. When was the last time you watched Monzon footage? What great fighter did he beat with anywhere near the speed and power of a Roy Jones? Monzon was pretty conventional, strong, but fairly slow, and not particularly all that busy. I think if Roy could embarrass Toney, decision Hopkins, he definitely could decision Monzon.
    I have several Monzon fights on film, I watch them frequently, and he damn sure wasn't anything close to "slow." He used to hold that left hand out and then jab it into people so quickly, they couldn't react-- straight as a bullet and hard as a freakin' hammer. He was the strongest and most durable middleweight I have ever seen, and that includes Dick Tiger and Marvin Hagler. And it certainly includes glass-jawed Roy Jones.

    Jones couldn't hurt Monzon and he couldn't match his pace either. Nor, obviously, could he take Monzon's punch. His sheer speed would keep him out of harm's way for a while, but only a while.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    [QUOTE=Fat Abbot]Never mentioned Roys power, actually. Never made that near the speed comparison either.

    Please re-read post #10. PeteLeo.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    What Monzon fight against a top, high quality middleweight (not blown up welter) would you suggest I watch to get a better feel for just how good Monzon truly was? Say the word and I'll watch it (or get it if I don't have it.) I have a few of his fights, but quite frankly wasn't all that impressed. But I'm willing to reconsider given how high you all are on him. I must be missing something.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Almost any of his title fights i suppose would do then.The first Benvenuti one probably the best combination of prime Monzon against a top foe.

    I suppose it depends on your definition of a high quality middleweight though.Most of Monzon's challengers were good technically skilled fighters IMO.

    The worst probably being nondescript and light punching Licata or Tonna, who tended not to have the stomach for things once he started to lose, but was certainly dangerous in his role as the seventies Roldan.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Quote Originally Posted by apollack
    What Monzon fight against a top, high quality middleweight (not blown up welter) would you suggest I watch to get a better feel for just how good Monzon truly was? Say the word and I'll watch it (or get it if I don't have it.) I have a few of his fights, but quite frankly wasn't all that impressed. But I'm willing to reconsider given how high you all are on him. I must be missing something.
    I guess you consider Napoles & Griffith to have been blown-up welters, notwithstanding that either one of them would have dethroned half the champions who ever wore the crown, and that Griffith actually held the title?

    Benvenutti, Briscoe, Valdez-- take your pick. 2 were middleweight champions and the other (Briscoe) would have been a champion in almost any other era.

  19. #19
    Fat Abbot
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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    [QUOTE=PeteLeo]
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Abbot
    Never mentioned Roys power, actually. Never made that near the speed comparison either.

    Please re-read post #10. PeteLeo.
    The question was something like: name one great fighter Monzon beat who had near the speed and power of Jones? You don't read these things too closely, do you?

    Please reasd this.

    When did i ask that?

  20. #20
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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    [QUOTE=Fat Abbot]Comparing Valdez to Jones is like comparing Shavers to Louis, sure their power was comparable ad maybe Shavers had more 1 punch KO power, but in every other aspect of fighting Shavers and Valdez were so far behind the other that they're incomparable.
    QUOTE]

    I wish I could sigh audibly over the Internet.
    You never made any comments about Roy's power? Please read the truncated quote above. I'm sure that you'll somehow try to wriggle your way out of that one, too, but if you're in the rare honest mood, you'll admit that the comparisons between Valdez and Jones and Shavers and Louis involved evaluating the respective levels of power of all four men, and one of those four was RJJ.
    As for the question which I outlined concerning any opponent whom Monzon fought who possessed anywhere near the power and speed of Jones ("I never said anything about Roy's speed!" -- or words to that effect), that particular query was attributable to Apollack in post #8. It's still there, look for yourself.
    Your problem, F. Albert, is that it's not ALL about you. There are other folks posting here and elsewhere, you know. Just take your time before firing off those scintillating responses, old boy. Should save you a lot of backtracking. PeteLeo.

  21. #21
    Fat Abbot
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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    You said that this was the question "The question was something like: name one great fighter Monzon beat who had near the speed and power of Jones? "

    I simply said that I never asked that question.

    After you brought Valdez up, I did say that he was incomparable to Jones in every aspect apart from power. And I do stand by that comment and never implied that Roys power would decide the fight. Though combined with his other attributes I certainly think it would help.

    These arguements beween us are getting ridiculous, if I'm being somewhat unclear, I do apologize, I really don't wanna argue over semantics and if it's my fault then again I'm sorry.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Monzon. Ko late.

    You can't hold your left hand at your kneecap against the guy and not get clipped sooner or later. And Monzon would apply that steady pressure of his and Jones wouldn't be in that comfy pitchers mound he loves to fight from. No rest periods and this pressure is a whole different ballgame than jorge castro's. Jones might land some right hand leads but they won't do much to that chin and he'll get countered later. Or monzon will land a big right--like benvenuti #1--when Roy has that left hand on his thigh.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    All I know is that at 160 and 168 Jones was a hellacious force to be reckoned with. He NEVER got dropped or even hurt at those weights. It was only at 175against southpaws who were natural 175 guys that he got dropped. And getting KO'd by a tall hard punching southpaw like Tarver at the END of his career that began back in 1988 doesn't tell me much the way it does for others. That's like saying Ali was slow and didn't punch very much because you watched him against Spinks, Berbick, and Holmes. To me, after being a pro for as long as Roy was, he was bound to get it.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Whoever knocked out even an old Ali with one punch? PeteLeo.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    why, no one.

  26. #26
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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    And when did Roy Jones lose to a man with 7 fights?

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    can't see your post.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Geez. I cant see JOnes mount any offense at all against Carlos Monzon. I mean he had a unreliable chin and would have to run all nite. Monzon was one mean, tuff, strong dude with every boxing quality. Jones is faster......but thats all.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Abbot
    And when did Roy Jones lose to a man with 7 fights?
    Give him time. PeteLeo.

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    Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Carlos Monzon

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Abbot
    Nope.

    He'd destroy Frazier p4p though.
    AND YOU CAN PROVE THIS CAN YOU???

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