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Thread: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

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    Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    What would "hands-of-stone" do to pretty boy?

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Mayweather is a great fighter.

    Duran was the greatest lightweight ever.

    Duran by TKO, round 9.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    This matchup makes me laugh. Duran after a first few difficult rounds takes over and slaughters him.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Floyd Mayweather didn't have enough power to keep
    Roberto Duran at bay.

    - Chuck Johnston

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Don't get me wrong: I think Duran wins this, too, but . . . .
    Does anyone feel that the Benitez match might give us sort of a peek at what might have happened against Mayweather? Or was Wilfred just that much better than Floyd? PeteLeo.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Benitez was one of the greatest defensive fighters of the last 30 years and a superior fighter to Floyd Mayweather Jr. As a mere boy he outclassed junior welterweight great Antonio Cervantes winning the World Junior Welterweight Title. By age 20 he was already a double crown champion after defeating the skilled Carlos Palomino for the World Welterweight Title. He also managed to pickup an alphabet belt at junior middleweight by destroying Maurice Hope. He was so talented in fact that he was able to accomplish all of this while barely ever training seriously. As everyone understands if you do not cultivate athletic physical talent it slowly degrades and it was his extremely poor training habits that lead to his down fall. It is not an exaggeration to state that he never reached his full potential.

    You could make the argument that Mayweather has never fought a single fighter of even Maurice Hope’s caliber. The four best fighters that Mayweather has fought are Diego Corrales, Genero Hernandez, Jose Luis Castillo and Zab Judah and they are all good fighters. However, when Mayweather was fighting these fighters Benitez was conquering legends, outboxing terrific professionals like Carlos Palomino and giving one of the greatest welterweights of all-time, Sugar Ray Leonard, a tough challenge while reportedly barely having even trained. Yes, Benitez was that far better than Floyd Mayweather and his accomplishments, which exceed Mayweather’s accomplishments, while still basically a boy are a testament to his outstanding ability.
    Last edited by lu047w; 04-19-2008 at 06:40 PM.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Hey, I was just ASKING. PeteLeo.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Quote Originally Posted by apollack
    This matchup makes me laugh. Duran after a first few difficult rounds takes over and slaughters him.
    me too.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Actually, I think duran would ruin the guy & mayweather is fortunate he hasn't had to tackle this sort of opposition in his career. He might fall into the mediocre type champion assessment if he had.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Quote Originally Posted by robertk
    Actually, I think duran would ruin the guy & mayweather is fortunate he hasn't had to tackle this sort of opposition in his career. He might fall into the mediocre type champion assessment if he had.
    Is it just boxing, or are there other sports in which the phrase "mediocre type champion" can be used and be completely accurate?

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Once and for all....

    Mayweather would lose because of the Duran jab. Roberto would fire that range finder and as soon as Mayweather would try to counter Duran would slip and get inside. Mayweather can forget that roll.

    Duran's combinations would never stop. Relentless pressure yet still unhittable. Scary. Mayweather is not brave enough to stand and deliver like Dejesus. Mayweather would have to be better than he believes he is to even compete. Duran would be stomping a mud hole by round 10. Corner stops it in 11.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    No love for Floyd at all? Really?

    I (ok, I am no expert) would think that we would see Mayweather do to Duran what he did to Gatti. Slip and roll, outspeed.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    You're joking right?

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Not joking at all. I regard Mayweather as the best in the business today and a strong match for the best in the past (not saying that he would be a sure bet against them all but he would give even the best of the best a good run for their money).

    If Sugar Ray Leonard could box rings around Duran in their second and third fights, then maybe Floyd could as well.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Duran was no Gatti. He was raw yet refined, his controlled aggression and superb inside fighting ability is more than a match for the oh so slick PBF. Duran is too much for PBF and finishes him in the later rounds.

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    Hmmmm

    "If Sugar Ray Leonard could box rings around Duran in their second and third fights, then maybe Floyd could as well."

    That's a good point here. If SRL could do this, than probably anyone could. It's just Leonard after all. What did HE ever do?

    Oh of course there is that tiny little difference between Leonard and Mayweather regarding proven power with which Duran was forced to respect. Probably, and I'm just spitballing here, Roberto would show ZERo respect for Mayweather's power which has never been on display above 130 pounds.

    Also, Duran did fight Leonard at 147 correct? So if Leonard could outbox Duran at 147, surely Floyd could do likewise to Duran, who let's face it, is probably just marginally better than Arturo Gatti, but let's not go crazy. Please. Next I'm going to hear that Esteban Dejesus is better than Tracey Harris Patterson! C'mon!

    Maybe after thinking this through, I might be coming around here and seeing the light. The Light, not to be mistaken with the one flashing in Floyd's eyes should he ever have had the nuggests to get in the ring with a Duran. Er' I mean Duran's eyes!

    Sorry, it's a slow process trying to accept this seemingly inarguable theory of Floyd outclassing Duran becuase some guy named "Leonard" did as well.

    Ray Who?

    Yeah, that's more like it.

    Hawk

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    I think a lot are underestimating PBF. His defense, speed and skills are top notch, power I say average and his ring generalship also top notch. I still favor Duran by 12 rd dec or late TKO over 15. He does not steamroll Floyd. He wins most rds but I say close. PBF was an extremely hard fighter to nail and is a real tough fight for most greats of the past.

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    At 135

    I saw both Mayweather Castillo Bouts.

    THAT is the Mayweather that should be judged when theorizing his chances with Duran at 135. I also beleive that this is the best Opponent Floyd has yet to face. And NO I do not beleive that he has imporved since these two fights. His opposition, has not been on par with Castillo, so yes, he has looked better. But he hasn't gotten better.

    In the first bout, I thought it was clear that Floyd lost by a minimum of 3 points. 4 points is probably more like it.

    Floyd did fare better in his return bout with Castillo, but I personally still had the bout a draw. No gripes with anyone who says Floyd won the bout, but he did NOT clearly win it as many have stated. Fareing better doesn't mean anything other than that.

    Floyd was unable to keep Castillo off him for sustained periods of time and was bothered by Jose' strength, Power and toughness.

    Now let's look at Duran here for a moment. The ONLY thing I think Castillo has on Roberto would be chin and that is only slightly. But given Floyd's power was inconsequetial at 135, Duran's chin, never factors into play at all.

    The two HUGE advantages that Duran has over Castillo are speed and defense.

    Imagine if you will, the two Castillo Mayweather bouts. And then factor in what would have happened if Castillo had ANY amount of defense, head movement and 10 times more speed than he brought to the table in those two fights.

    Same Toughness. Same Chin. Same Strength. Same Body punching prowress. But NOW the pressure is MUCH greater. The One Punch Power is better. THe Speed is MUCH greater and the target that Floyd is throwing back at, is oodles more elusive.

    Picture those two Castillo fights and then imagine a vastly imporved product going after Mayweather.

    I think I'll go back to my original thoughts on this matchup. Duran by KO in 6. Floyd is unable to handle and adjust to the combined, speed, ferocity and power that Duran is throwing at him and Duran has ZERO respect for Floyd's power. I'd give Floyd a couple of rounds prior to brutal, conclusive stoppage by Duran midway into the 6th.

    Hawk
    Last edited by hawk5ins; 12-28-2006 at 10:36 AM.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Hawk, styles make fights and it seems you are grossly underestimating PBF.
    What do you think he will do, stand and allow Roberto a free reign. The guy is unbeaten and though you say he hasn't beat real class opposition, I think he beat whoever he faced consistently. Duran will be facing a guy who can throw every shot in the book, fit as a fiddle, great footwork and speed and as far as I know, a decent chin. Roberto could bang, but I think PBF is too slippery to be nailed with enough consecutive shots to be really troubled.
    Do you believe Whitaker could beat or even take Duran close? Pea was not as good in my opinion as PBF.

    I do agree that Roberto does not have to worry too much about Floyd's power, but he will have to worry about his accuracy, volume and speed. And though PBF aint no Hearns, he still hurts enough to make Duran take care at least. Duran will be definitely tested and made work and definitely made think real hard to win. He does because he had that extra little bit in most areas than PBF...

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Wasn't Shane Mosely, at Floyd's age, also touted as an all-timer, when what he really was was a very good fighter....and not a timeless great?

    We need to wait and see about Floyd in terms of his all-time status. At Lightweight, there are zero performances suggesting he beats the best Lightweight Duran...whereas there are Duran performances, and analysis of Floyd's own fights there at 135, suggesting Duran would defeat PBF.

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    What Sharkey said.

    He always is able to summarize what I am trying to say so much more succintly and much more lucidly.

    Hawk

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    I just wanna say even though this topic is apparently done. Floyd is great fighter. He was not better than Estaban DeJesus.

    DeJesus was at least the equal maybe slightly superior of prime Duran at the time of their second meeting. Records were one loss each and over 30 wins. Duran's best win was an impressive one over Buchanon, Dejesus' was more impressive against Duran.

    Dejesus was the boxer and he had to beat Duran in the Garden were Roberto won the title and do in only 10 rounds. What does he do? He comes out and floors Duran with one counter hook, and goes on out boxes Duran.

    Duran came back to avenge this defeat but in doing this he gets dropped in Pamana in the first round again by the same punch. If Duran wasn't the greatest 135'er of all-time and one of the top five fighters of all-time he would not have been able to recover from the punch or the heat or the pressure to beat a fighter like DeJesus.

    All this to say that as great a Floyd is Duran was great and special. DeJesus was greater than Floyd. DeJesus would have beaten Castillio, Hatton, Tyszu, Cotto, and Floyd himself if he were at his fighting best today.

    I want to end this by saying that in the final fight of the Duran-DeJesus trilogy Duran fought magnificent, but it was not te Duran we were used to seeing. He was backing away, jabbing like hell, dancing, sticking and moving. Duran did not want to test that Hook again.
    Last edited by JLP 6; 12-30-2006 at 01:03 PM.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    I fear some might be thinking of Duran slow at 154 and 160 lbs.

    As a lightweight, Duran not only had incredible stamina, pressure, and a big punch, but he was incredibly quick. Far faster than Castillo, Chavez, or Gatti. Floyd wouldn't be able to just box and move like he did vs a plodding Corales . . .Duran had the footspeed, handspeed, feinting, and body punching to be in his face all night.

    Maywheather would not survive.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    I agree with Sharkey...to a degree. Mayweather is without doubt a gifted fighter but even though he's beaten two legitimate welters and win or lose against DLH, he's simply not in his weight class. IMHO, the time to rate him at his best is already marred by an asterisk that he can't remove.

    Duran, despite the fact that he went on to fight for another two decades and proved he could more than function at 147 and above left his best at 135. I feel the same about PBF, only he had no DeJesus, no classic foil unless you want to include Castillo. If that's the case, if Castillo is the best fighter he fought at or nearest his best weight, the problems he had not once but TWICE lead me to believe he's in for a world of trouble against the best Roberto Duran.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    JLP: DeJesus was not the superior of Duran. His first win was solid but it was also ten rounds and at the end of those ten DeJesus was wearing down. Had that fight had the same distance as the next two, Duran probably stops him the first time.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Duran by ko in ten rounds or less, he would be too strong and punch too hard for PBF at 135 lbs.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    Floyd has no firepower to keep Cholo off him.Mismatch if you ask me.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    It also ought to be noted DeJesus is not similar to PBF, nor is Ray Leonard for theat matter, while Duran is indeed an augmented Castillo. So Duran has the ability and the blueprint to execute it. PBF may have a blueprint but he doesn't fight in the ways that blueprint seems to require.

    Not that that means PBF cannot beat Duran. It means perhaps the evidence lies elsewhere.
    Last edited by Sharkey; 01-01-2007 at 04:07 PM.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    If this fight was made at 135 it would bring a very interesting and I mean a second by second interesting pro boxing clinic come alive with some surprises here and there.

    We all know Duran is the quintessential ferocious mindset who applied his attack with a lot more craft than first expected. His quick KO over Benny Huertas which I saw live at the Garden promised many more exciting bouts as he kept showing off his strength of legs in his rope jumping while training, his attitude, his skill at slipping shots while coming in with under and over body and head attacks.

    When he took out Lloyd Marshall in Panama, a guy who I boxed with quite often and I considered a class A+ lightweight but who was on the downslide when he fought Roberto, I really took interest in Duran. Lloyd had beaten Maurice Cullen and went the distance with Laguna.

    I did not like the call in the Buchannan fight as the blow was extremely low and that kind of ruling gives a green light to anyone who wants to hit you in the balls and win. 5 minute rest, then calling a tko if he could not continue with a points deduction and warning would have given the bout more positive and definitive closure. Duran was winning and although Ken was a brilliant boxer he was not fast enough to keep the fire off of him nor did he have the power to stop Duran either.

    When someone like a 5'7" Duran handles 5'10" Sugar Ray Leonard in Montreal, and did the job on the very likable and formidable Carlos Palomino at 147, and unbelievably knocks out 6' Iran Barkely and lasts 15 with Hagler we all know who is stronger between PBF and Hands of Stone.

    Yet I must tell you that there are strange things that happen in that ring.
    When I kept watching Liston lay out monsters and sat there and watched Cassius Clay dance around him whipping his jab into his face it changed things as much as James J Corbett changed John L.

    I know Esteban DeJesus at 5'5" is not PBF but he is nowhere near as fast as PBF and he dropped Duran and outmanuvered him. Duran came back twice to do the job on him and Duran was a force who kept improving and always stayed ferocious and effective as he did against Ray Lampkin.

    The Benitez fight was extremely revealing to me as Roberto really came at Wilfred like a ball of fire. He was nullified at every turn whether he was out of shape, on the downslide or not. Benitez is nowwhere near as fast as PBF but had skills which were applied in different ways, different leg stance and different methods.

    The record of Duran on paper will always be superior to PBF, the legend of Roberto will too, I even pick Duran to KO PBF and run him out of the ring.

    But what I will tell you as a fighter is this, like Schmelling said, "I seez something" and what I see is depressing but possible.

    There is a chance that PBF with his boring and phoenominal reflexes, sense of distance and timing, faster hands than Duran, and oh my yes they are faster, could pull off an upset without getting hit the way we would want to see him get hit and frustrate the great Duran into fits.

    I pick Duran but my sense of what I actually see sometimes intefers with what I want to happen because sometimes a super fast man of the same height can do what a bigger and stronger man cannot.
    A nightmare for Roberto would be a repeat of what SRL did to him in the No Mas fight.

    Duran would nail PBF and get him out of there, yeah, I will go with that.
    Would the other outcome surprise me based on this guy's speed and defense, not really.

    Maybe PBF will be exposed soon and we will all see he was not that fast, not that great, but the son of a bitch has amazing relflexes and hand speed and sometimes that can do it against anybody.

    Duran would have to nail him like Hurricane Carter did to Fernandez and Griffith, with one shot to get it going. Duran did it in combinations and against PBF it is hard to do. Wear him down and blast him out could be as hard as hitting a James Toney with one shot and taking him out.

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    Re: Roberto Duran vs. Floyd Mayweather at lightweight

    If this fight was made at 135 it would bring a very interesting and I mean a second by second interesting pro boxing clinic come alive with some surprises here and there.

    We all know Duran is the quintessential ferocious mindset who applied his attack with a lot more craft than first expected. His quick KO over Benny Huertas which I saw live at the Garden promised many more exciting bouts as he kept showing off his strength of legs in his rope jumping while training, his attitude, his skill at slipping shots while coming in with under and over body and head attacks.

    When he took out Lloyd Marshall in Panama, a guy who I boxed with quite often and I considered a class A+ lightweight but who was on the downslide when he fought Roberto, I really took interest in Duran. Lloyd had beaten Maurice Cullen and went the distance with Laguna.

    I did not like the call in the Buchannan fight as the blow was extremely low and that kind of ruling gives a green light to anyone who wants to hit you in the balls and win. 5 minute rest, then calling a tko if he could not continue with a points deduction and warning would have given the bout more positive and definitive closure. Duran was winning and although Ken was a brilliant boxer he was not fast enough to keep the fire off of him nor did he have the power to stop Duran either.

    When someone like a 5'7" Duran handles 5'10" Sugar Ray Leonard in Montreal, and did the job on the very likable and formidable Carlos Palomino at 147, and unbelievably knocks out 6' Iran Barkely and lasts 15 with Hagler we all know who is stronger between PBF and Hands of Stone.

    Yet I must tell you that there are strange things that happen in that ring.
    When I kept watching Liston lay out monsters and sat there and watched Cassius Clay dance around him whipping his jab into his face it changed things as much as James J Corbett changed John L.

    I know Esteban DeJesus at 5'5" is not PBF but he is nowhere near as fast as PBF and he dropped Duran and outmanuvered him. Duran came back twice to do the job on him and Duran was a force who kept improving and always stayed ferocious and effective as he did against Ray Lampkin.

    The Benitez fight was extremely revealing to me as Roberto really came at Wilfred like a ball of fire. He was nullified at every turn whether he was out of shape, on the downslide or not. Benitez is nowwhere near as fast as PBF but had skills which were applied in different ways, different leg stance and different methods.

    The record of Duran on paper will always be superior to PBF, the legend of Roberto will too, I even pick Duran to KO PBF and run him out of the ring.

    But what I will tell you as a fighter is this, like Schmelling said, "I seez something" and what I see is depressing but possible.

    There is a chance that PBF with his boring and phoenominal reflexes, sense of distance and timing, faster hands than Duran, and oh my yes they are faster, could pull off an upset without getting hit the way we would want to see him get hit and frustrate the great Duran into fits.

    I pick Duran but my sense of what I actually see sometimes intefers with what I want to happen because sometimes a super fast man of the same height can do what a bigger and stronger man cannot.
    A nightmare for Roberto would be a repeat of what SRL did to him in the No Mas fight.

    Duran would nail PBF and get him out of there, yeah, I will go with that.
    Would the other outcome surprise me based on this guy's speed and defense, not really.

    Maybe PBF will be exposed soon and we will all see he was not that fast, not that great, but the son of a bitch has amazing relflexes and hand speed and sometimes that can do it against anybody.

    Duran would have to nail him like Hurricane Carter did to Fernandez and Griffith, with one shot to get it going. Duran did it in combinations and against PBF it is hard to do. Wear him down and blast him out could be as hard as hitting a James Toney with one shot and taking him out.

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