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Thread: JOE FRAZIER W15 OSCAR BONAVENA II (full version exist?)

  1. #1
    Jeri Curl aka Overhand Right
    Guest

    JOE FRAZIER W15 OSCAR BONAVENA II (full version exist?)

    Apparently only a 15 min HL version is doing the rounds. Is this true?

    A high profile fight like this surely there must be a full length version? Does anybody know a source or can point me in the right direction?

  2. #2
    Rafael
    Guest
    All I have (and all I have seen around) is the 15 min. HL.

  3. #3
    wolgast
    Guest

    full version

    it does exist, I have seen it

  4. #4
    Jeri Curl aka Overhand Right
    Guest

    wolgast

    Any more info Wolgast...?

    Please share!

  5. #5
    Jay
    Guest

    Re: wolgast

    The problem is not finding out who has a copy (poplowski would), it's getting it..Forget it my friend, they wouldnt give that out for the world!

    jay

  6. #6
    Jeri Curl aka Overhand Right
    Guest

    ?

    I dont get it?

    Why not share it? Whats the point in it gathering dust in someones video cabinet?

    Why wouldnt anyone who had the tape not want numerous other old time boxing fans to sit back & enjoy the fight?

    Bah, you're a cynic my friend!

  7. #7
    Rafael
    Guest

    Re: ?

    Why not share it? Whats the point in it gathering dust in someones video cabinet?
    I've been collecting for years, and this is something I have never understood either. What is the value of owning a video and not sharing it with -or trading it to- others? If you were making a profit from showing it in private auditions, I would understand, but otherwise why would I hoard something that has no social value collecting dust in my basement?

  8. #8
    Jeri Curl aka Overhand Right
    Guest

    -

    Exactly...

  9. #9
    EVRENB
    Guest

    Re: -

    I do understand what is said here. However there are reasons why this happens : -
    1. Some fights you can only obtain if you agree not to sell on. This is fair enough if the original collector has paid hundreds or thousands for a film and doesnt want to see it passed 'round for $10.
    2. Some films are very rare - only owned by a single collector. Now if for example I had a film for example Sonny Liston vs Zora Folley - this I could use to obtain a fight film that is owned by another collector. Some of these collectors are well off and will not take money - but they will swap film. Now if you hand that Liston fight out to everyone then you no longer have bargaining power ! And thats what its all about ! There are old collectors who are just interested in the fights and they know that they can only obtain new rare fights by trading their rare fights.
    3. Some collectors have bought from TV stations and copyright doesnt allow to forward on !

    EB

  10. #10
    Rafael
    Guest

    Re: -

    And you forgot one reason....some people are just strange and selfish.

    Incidentally, I know for a fact that your swapping story is not quite correct. Most of these hermit "collectors" won't even swap for comparably rare film. They just like to bask about their prized possessions in the privacy of their dark film rooms and vaults. They also like to brag that they own the film to aggravate others and make them salivate. I wonder if they will regret not having gotten more value out of their possessions once they are six feet under.

  11. #11
    EVRENB
    Guest

    Re: -

    I agree - some are strange. If though you get hold of a fight with the premise that you dont hand it out (as selfish as that might sound) you dont do it - or you will never get a fights from that collector again - thats their rules I guess.
    I think you are being a little harsh. Some of these guys spend years, hours of work and research and lots of expense obtaining rare film. It don't come easy so its up to them I guess what they do!
    I think Rafael you are the person who wanted the Al Brown footage from me - I never meant to dangle a carrot under your nose and I am sorry if you got that impression. Again I obtained that footage with premise that it will not go beyond me. If I did I would never obtain anymore footage from the person who supplied it.
    Believe me its oh so precious when you come across a gem of a rare fight than just getting a poor old copy that anyone has. It is selfish, I suppose but thats the way it is.

    EB

  12. #12
    Rafael
    Guest

    Re: -

    I have been collecting for years, and there are all kinds of nice and also strange people you run into. I respect when someone trades you something under the premise of not passing it along to others. In fact, I have gotten a few gems under those conditions. I just don't put those items on my trade list or tell people "yeah, I've got what you want, but no can do buddy." I just think that is kind of cruel and uncalled for. One of my best trading buddies has some stuff he's not allowed to pass on, and to this day he has not told me exactly what it is, and I respect that. But if it is on my list and I say, "yeah, I've got it," then it's fair game for trading (I don't sell). I don't expect everyone to agree with my philosophy, but I just think that being upfront about what you can and cannot trade, and not bragging about what you have but are not willing to trade, are good attributes to find in a collector.

    Peace.

  13. #13
    Rafael
    Guest

    Re: -

    One more thing. In addition to being a collector I am also an economist, and from the utility maximization standpoint it makes little to no sense to hoard "rare" stuff and never get exchange or market value out of it. Everybody dies one day. Right? Suppose you own a piece of rare film that you could share with others, but you choose to never do it until you die. You have clearly not maximized the lifetime utility you could have gotten out of that piece of film. You could have done several things like (a) traded a copy for some other rare piece of film or other valuable, (b) showed the film on private auditions and charged for it, (c) sold a copy in open outcry auction at Sotheby's; among others. All of these alternatives would have resulted in a higher level of lifetime utility than withholding it till you died.

  14. #14
    EVRENB
    Guest

    FILMS

    I've never bragged to anyone about what I have or haven't got. I think you are way out of line.
    I am an honest collector who always likes to help people. Once again I apologise if you think I was bragging. What is the point of that. It means nothing to me. You once posted if there was any footage on Al Brown. I wrote and told you what I had. I never said I was going to trade it. I though most collectors would have had this footage and by me telling you what there was you could search.
    This has really bothered me. Next time I will not say anything about footage then you may never know!

  15. #15
    Rafael
    Guest

    Re: FILMS

    Unfortunaley, I think it may be you who's out of line here. For some reason, you are taking this personally, even though I was not talking about you in particular. My statement was about bizarre collectors in general. There are people out there who would take their reels with them in their caskets rather than share them with others, and that is a fact. You obviously don't fall into that category so no personal offense intended.

  16. #16
    Jeri Curl aka Overhand Right
    Guest

    RAFAEL

    Rafael i hear where yoru coming from bro & i totally agree with you. I see both sides logic but in this case if i were for instance to track down a copy of Liston/Folley it would give me great pleasure to share it with fellow Liston or Folley fans whilst making a nice (small) buck for myself at the same time. I think your probably the same.

    These other hobbits dont help the community one bit and like you say will probably be buried with a death-grip round their shaky old rare reels, and a big satisified rotting smile on their corpse face.

  17. #17
    gazot
    Guest

    Re: RAFAEL

    'a death-grip round their shaky old rare reels, and a big satisified rotting smile on their corpse face'. :lol

    I agree, I can't understand why you would want to keep any film to yourself. I have heard claims on this board that there's film that only a handful of people have seen. What's the fuckin point in that?!!? I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone out there is commiting the ultimate crime and keeping a Greb fight all to themselves! Why? I can't think of a reasonable answer.

  18. #18
    greek1237
    Guest

    Re: RAFAEL

    No one lives for ever. I dont see why some of these guys cant share it sometimes.

    What else, If they are the only ONEs with ONE copy or so, and they never share it. Than they die, and the copy gets lost or destory or something. Than boxing fans just lost other peice of history.

    Besides, it does not help to keep it to yourself imo. The film will NOT last for ever.

  19. #19
    StingerKarl
    Guest

    Quarry W 12 Mathis

    Folks;
    I am going to have to play the "Devil's Advocate" here.
    I have the DVD of Jerry Quarry W 12 Buster Mathis in very fine condition that I will not release.
    Primarily, because it is mine and I went through a lot of trouble and expense for it.
    Secondly; I promised 2 members of the Quarry family I would never duplicate it.
    Thirdly; being a former amateur fighter myself (no world beater but a fair record) I felt that I have earned the right as Jer was a role model of mine and gave me courage to get up in there to view this in my "own world" if you will.
    If a current or former professional world's champion ever asked me for it-I would probably make them a copy after I got everything notarized and official, sure.
    To each his own, and maybe years later when I do pass-my son can release it.
    Terrific performance by Quarry, BTW.
    Just my thoughts and I respect you folks.
    Karl

  20. #20
    bomma
    Guest

    Re: Quarry W 12 Mathis

    Karl I understand you position and I think it is fair, if I was in your position and the family let me have the footage only if I would not trade it than I would do the same. If you gave your word you must stand by it.

    It is a shame however that many of us who really love this sport and spend a lot of time collecting will never get a chance to see fights like that.

    You never know though with the growth of the Internet, Tivo and video on demand. I have a feeling that there will come a time where there will be much more access to video. One day it becomes cost effective for TV networks to put footage online for minimal expensive and there is enough demand that they can make money off of it. Look at MLB and their site, they have classic games online for viewing.

  21. #21
    bodyblow
    Guest

    trade?

    So, Karl, you wouldnt even trade Quarry-Mathis for an equally rare, or MORE rare fight than that one?

  22. #22
    StingerKarl
    Guest

    Re: trade?

    No Sir

  23. #23
    EVRENB
    Guest
    Thats a lovely bit of footage there Karl ! Good Man !!! Great fight isn't it !
    It won't be long before one collector gets hold of it and gives it out (The Frazier fight with Bonavena) It was the same thing with Bonavena and Chuvalo - no one had it then everyone had it. There is a black and white and colour version of that one !
    When a family of a boxer asks you not to give it out you dont ! How disrespectful would that be??!!
    Well Done Karl !!

  24. #24
    StingerKarl
    Guest
    Thanks, EV.
    A chap in South Africa offered me five hundred dollars for it several years ago and I declined his offer. He eventually went up to a thousand, but I still wouldn't sell.

  25. #25
    Rafael
    Guest
    Just found a reel of Greb-Tunney 2 in a suburban Chicago flea market over the weekend. It's already behind lock and key at my local bank. Heck, I probably won't even watch it myself, but the thing I really care about is that no one else does. I also called my attorney right away and asked him to modify my Living Will so that the reel is placed inside my casket when I move to a better world. Just thought I would rub it in....

  26. #26
    Roberto Aqui
    Guest
    Hey, that's reel cute there. Reely cute!

  27. #27
    Rafael
    Guest
    Roberto, you're not even allowed to comment on it. The film will lose value rapidly if anyone catches a glimpse of it or even makes a comment on it. That is why I have it behind lock and key.

  28. #28
    gazot
    Guest

    ...

    Rafael I think you should watch it and then burn it. It's the only way to safely know that you are the only one who has seen it. Imagine how satisfying that will be!

  29. #29
    greek1237
    Guest

    Re: ...

    Raf, when you die, can you tell me your grave site lol.

    Ok a bit morbin, but its worth getting Greb Tunney lol. Grave robbers has been around for ages you know.

  30. #30
    Rafael
    Guest

    Re: ...

    NEVER!!!!

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