ATT: HAP NAVARRO

[Chuck1052]

Hap- The "angel" didn't come through when
Dick Donald tried to stage a bout between
Joe Dundee and Ace Hudkins. Of course,
I believe that Donald would have had a
good chance to have a successful
promotion if the California State Athletic
Commission allowed him to have a cashier's
check of $60,000. ready to hand over to
Dundee.

- Chuck Johnston

[dnahar]

Hap,
Can you help me with something? I'm compiling lists of championship fights with weights and venues and I'm missing weights for the following LA Title fights (I could find neither in the LA Times archive).

09/21/26 Mushy Callahan W10 Pinkey Mitchell Arena; Vernon, CA

08/22/25 Fidel LaBarba W10 Frankie Genaro Ascot Park Speedway, Los Angeles

I you could help with weights on either or both of these fights, I would appreciate it.

Deepak

[dongee]

dnahar:

My apologies twice. First off, I'm sorry I have not been watching this thread closely, so I only got your post today, 4-11. Secondly, I don't have that information on weights for you because I am now living about 300 mles from my former home and all of my files are scattered in two different places. Your best bet might be Chuck Johnston, who is keen on details such as what you are seeking.

hap

[dnahar]

Hap,
No Problem. Thanks for checking.

Deepak

[kikibalt]

Hap

Back in the 40s and 50s there was a training camp in Ojai Calif. I believe it was run by some guy named Willie, I can't remember his last name, you have anything to share with us on that camp.

Frank B.

BTW, what can you tell us about Jimmy Palazzola? I remember seeing him fight at the Legion a few time about 1952 or so.

I remember the guy name Willie Orner , is that right?

[iskigoe]

Hap I was wondering if you know anything about the early life of Hype Igoe or Tad Dorgan .

Kevin Igoe

[dongee]

Frank B.and Igoe:

Willie Orner bought the original Main Street Gym from Carlo Curtis around 1939, sold it to Roxie Eisen and then took it back in the early 1940s. I believe he also had a piece of the old training camp at Murrieta Springs, which was later taken over by boxer Cisco Andrade.

I had a part in developing Jimmy Palazzola, who was managed by Ralph Gambina (along wih Cisco Andrade, Willie Bean and others) We tried to keep him and Pete Janke, another rising youngster apart, giving them both wins and hoping to match them in a main event while they were both undefeated. It didn't quite work out that way.

I recently saw a magazine put out by the Ojai Chamber of Commerce that had an in-depth article on Soper's Ranch, which was the training camp you have in mind. I would go there to check on boxers working out for fights at our Legion Stadium. One heluva place to go if you want peace and quiet, away from the smoke-filled spots in downtown L.A. Some of the greatest fighters of the time trained there, including Jack Dempsey and Mickey Walker.

The last time I was there, Willie Vaughn was training for his bout with Chas. Green at the Legion Stadium. I hosted a press party up there and somewhere I've got photos taken that day which show media guys enjoying themselves. Don Fraser, our publicity man at the Legion helped out hosting the writers. Vaughn was so inspired the first time he went to that camp before his state title bout with Charlie Green that he got up from two serious knockdowns to upset Green, who was about 10 to 1 in the betting. The L.A. Times called that bout the Fight of the Year, but it didn't win the ultimate award.
Ramon Fuentes was also training there at the same time for an important bout at the Olympic Auditorium.

As for the Igoe and Dorgan question: I can only say that they were highly respected and widely read in their time. Most of the fine writers who contributed to the Ring Magazine on a monthly basis have been entirely overlooked by modern times, possibly because they didn't have the puff sheets written about them by those who followed. One of the greatest, most knowledgeable that I knew well was Bill Miller, who had gotten into boxing as an associate of Frank Churchill, in the Philippines around 1920. Bill not only wrote well but had also done a lot of booking and managing of boxers after he and Churchill split. Bill worked his office in Chicago and New York associated with Churchill's former trainer, Whitey Ekwaet, one heluva conditioner who wounded at Universal Studios, working with Hollywood leading male stars. That's when I knew Whitey.

Hope this helps somebody.

hap navarro

[Chuck1052]

Frank- Pop Soper ran a training camp for several decades
in the Ojai area. A number of years ago, I saw an exhibit
on Soper's put together by a historical organization in
Ojai.

- Chuck Johnston

[kikibalt]

Thanks Hap & Chuck

You're right it was Pop Soper, for some reason i had him mixed up with Orner.

Hap- Did Orner owned the main st gym when it burn down?

Frank B.

[dongee]

Yes, Frank. I think Orner still owned he Main Street Gym when it burned in 1951(?).

That's when Babe McCoy funded another gym at the top of Angel's Flight in downtown L.A. and called it the Moose Gym. Fidel LaBarba's brother, Joe, was the Manager of the place, which existed until a new Main Street Gym was opened across from the old one. Willie Ginsberg operated that one until his death. That's when Howie Steindler took it over.

hap navarro

[kikibalt]

Hap, what do you know about this movie?

Frank B.

[dongee]

Howdy, Frank?

That is one interesting image you sent out. Frankly, I had no idea they had shot that film at our Legion Stadium perhaps because I never saw the movie.

I would think that it was the first picture shot at the NEW Stadium or dealing with the NEW Stadium because of the movie date, which was 1938, the same year the Hollywood American Legion Post opened their new, ultra modern stadium which was built on the site of the old wooden shack that was all but falling down.

The female lead in the picture is Evelyn Venable who had a rather short-lived film career, but lives on forever, it seems, as the gal who modeled for the RKO Film Studio logo-----you know, the gal dressed in white and holding a torch llike the more famous Statue of Liberty. That image comes on just before the RKO movie starts.

hap navarro

[iskigoe]

Hap

Found this article today can you tell me any thin about it

THE FRESNO BEE Tuesday, Sept. 19,1972 Page 3

26 Boxers Enter Hall Of Fame
Al Manfredo, formerly of Fresno and now of Oakland,
was one of the 26 former boxers inducted at the California
Oldtimers Boxing Hall of Fame dinner.

Manfredo won the California state welterweight championship
from Cefcrino Garcia in 1936. In a 10-year career
he met five world's champions, meeting Henry
Armstrong twice for the welterweight title.
Other inductees who attended the dinner \\eic

Jack Silver, Goldie Hess, George Parnassus, George
Levine, Jimmy Duffy, Lee Ramage, and California Joe Lynch.

Others inducted but not attending were:
Dave Shade, Bert Colima, Joe Roche, Gunboat Smith, Buddy
Baer, Ccferino Garcia and Archie Moore.

Inducted posthumously were: Sam McVcy, Frankie
Burns (born in Fresno) Al Kaufman, Tommy Warren,
Moose Tasussig, Al Young, Toby Irwin, Hype Igoe, Fred
"Windy" Winsor and Baby Arizmendi.
Jackie Fields, former Olympic gold medal winner
and pro welterweight cham pion, and Fidel La B a r b
also Olympic gold meda winner (Paris 1924) were
present and received awards.

Other guests included
Young Corbelt, Mushy Calla han, Lou Nova, Suey Welch
Johnny Farr, Billy Wallace Joe Herman, Babe Griffin
and Ed Orman, Jack Downej and Tony Olivera.

Maybe Hype wasn't passed over

Thanks in advance for any help
Igoe

[dongee]

Iskigoe:

I've been aware of the annual dinner held in Fresno where they used to honor old time boxers---in fact, I have a ticket somewhere that is signed by Willie Ritchie, Mushy Callahan and Young Corbett III, all world's champions.

However, I had never heard much emphasis on the "Hall of Fame" angle so I always thought of the event as being just a get-together for old time ring stars.

As you might have noticed, their emphasis seems to be on boxing stars from the northern part of the State of California, perhaps because of the location of the banquet, Fresno, which is closer to San Francisco than to L.A.

This sorta bears out my suggestion to you about having the northern area sports people get behind the move on behalf of recognition for Hype Igoe, which they have obviously taken care of already if only on a regional basis.

You have to aggressively pursue Hype's induction into the International Hall of Fame perhaps using the recognition he has received in his home state as a starting point.

We're with you in your quest for a deserved honor for your granddad.

hap navarro

[iskigoe]

Dear Hap

Not knowing my grandfather , and ignoring my conection to boxing for most of my life . I find it hard sometimes to find my way in the world of boxing. I have though exceled in my own sport "equestrian show jumping" . Our sport is lucky to have a gentleman named George Morris . He is considered the tops in the USA , for riding , teaching , and keeping our country competitive internationaly .

I have studied him for years and believe he is mostly great because of the interest he takes in the sport as a whole . One time you see him he's teaching a child on a $200 ponie . Next he's teaching one of our countrys finest on a multi-million dollar horse . To him there no difference .

It's a quality you seem to share .It's no small wonder
you are so well respected here

thanks again
Igoe

[Chuck1052]

In regards to the 1972 California Oldtimers Hall of Fame dinner,
it appears that the organizers had a very good feel for California
boxing history. Many of the listed inductees were worthy
honorees, but still wouldn't get a tumble for induction in the
current California Boxing Hall of Fame.

- Chuck Johnston

[iskigoe]

Chuck

I'm not sure what you mean . Do you feel the current hall of fame has higher standards . Or do you feel they tend to over look some Old Timers.


Igoe

[Chuck1052]

Igoe- The 1972 version had inductees who belong in any
California Hall of Fame, but haven't been given a tumble
in the current version. They include Dave Shade, Oakland
Jimmy Duffy, Oakland Frankie Burns, Al Young, Toby
Irwin, Joe Roche, Goldie Hess, Moose Taussig,
Windy Winsor, and Jack Silver. Of course, a number
of the listed boxers or boxing men were based in
Northern California. That is something to consider
when you realize that the current version of the California
Hall of Fame is based in the Los Angeles area.

There was an annual Bay Area Boxing Hall of Fame dinner
held in Oakland during the early 1980s. Of course, I would
think that a number of the 1972 California Oldtimers Hall of Fame
inductees would be charter members of the Bay Area Boxing
Hall of Fame.

- Chuck Johnston

[dongee]

Isigoe:

There has always been, in my opiniion, a keen rivalry between the two prime sectors of California. I honestly think that many partisan California sports fans prefer it that way. There's only one spirit of competition that can surpass cross-town rivalry-----intersectional bloodletting, and north versus south will do it every time. Sorta like a mini-civil-war.

The two major hubs, Los Angeles and San Francisco appear to be quite disparate in idealogy, customs and dress codes. It should follow that their idolotry is reserved for one of their own heroes.

The finest Golden Gloves competition I ever saw, back in the old days, took place during a decade when the Inter City Tournaments, pitting Los Angeles youngsters against winners from San Francisco were the annual norm.

The edge was only removed when the moguls paved the way for a third entity, the City of Seattle, to join in. In those days the L.A. Olympic had action going in two side-by-side rings during the Tourney's multi-night battling, producing many more fine professionals.

Additionally, for several years the southern sports writers chose their "Fight of the Year" from action that took place in their immediate area, while scribes from the north selected their own local favorites.

hap navarro

[gregbeyer]

chuck,

i have not thought of that in years. i always thought it was a bad idea. good idea to get in a lot of fights. seems like i remember once being there when they had over a hundred fights..could have been more.

what was bad is that with two rings side by side the bells get out of sync. finaly, i saw the inevitable happen. a kid in the OTHER ring responded to the wrong bell by dropping his guard and boom....murphys law.
greg

[fjohn2]

I hope these photos come through. I beleve them to be taken on, or around Soper's Ranch, although I can't say for sure. My dad often spoke of working out, and doing road work at Wheeler Hot Springs, above Ojai, CA

I purchased these from the Winkler Collection a few years ago.
Hap believes one of the men running with my dad is " Chalky Wright ".
They seem to all be staged shots, as most are in the collection.
Any guess as to whom my dad is playing cards with?
He is in the ring with Ruby Benton.

Sincerely,

F. John LaBarba
( Son of former Flyweight Champion )

[dongee]

fjohn:

To reiterate:

I still think that slight young man doing roadwork with you dad is Albert Chalky Wright. I have several very early photos of Chalky and he looks exactly like the fellow in the photo.

Bu then....I also thought the fellow sparring with your dad was my old buddy Earl Mastro, when I compared photos of his with the one you have posted.

He was friendly with your dad, although I think they fought each other back in the early days.

hap navarro

[Buck]

Hap, when I think back to around the early forties, my dad used to take me and my sister to a training camp close to Los Angeles. At that time the owner was "Johnny Keyes" or something like that. Any recollection?

[dongee]

Buck.....I don't recall the training camp you mentioned, although there were several operating at various times in our area. One was near the community of what is now Brea, near Diamond Bar. Johnny Keyes was an eternal figure in southern California boxing.
He was an Italian out of New York City, originally, who was very close to Babe McCoy and in fact the two men operated the new, clean and modern Ringside Gym on 12sth street in L.A. in the late 30s. Johnny Keyes was also known as "The Mayor of Chinatown" and ultimately ended up running a spaghetti house in San Diego.

hap navarro

[Buck]

Thanks for the info, just keeping up with "old" memories.

[fjohn2]

ojaihistory_16.jpgojaihistory_15.jpgojaihistory_40-1.jpg

Hap, etal,

I have come across more old photos from Soper's former Ranch. I will try to post them all.

[fjohn2]

ojaihistory_14.jpgojaihistory_03.jpglg_bodees13.jpg

These are all from the Ojai Historical Museum.

[fjohn2]

ojaihistory_40-1.jpgojaihistory_45.jpgojaihistory_32.jpg

Pop Ran the place until his death in 1957. After which, it was bought by two men ( John Lagomarsino & Andrew Borchard ).
Pop's brother Matin, continued to manage the place until 1963,when the Ventura County Building inspector deemed the place
" ........unsafe & beyond repair." The buildings we all raised at that time.