Tyson Vs. Bowe Prime to Prime

[TDKO]

I am watching Bowe Golata II.....wow, Bowe really had a chin!
He took everything, big body shots, (below the belt shots)....

Who wins between the Bowe that beat Holyfield in their first fight,
and Tyson of Michael Spinks vintage?

Would Bowe start too slow and get bombed out? Or would his Jab keep
Tyson at bay long enough to take him into later rounds and wear him
down with his superior infighting?

Apologies if this has been discussed before..........

[robertk]

I don't like, but love Tyson in this.

He eats up those easy to hit stationary guys with a leaky defense. Bowe doesn't have the footwork or mobility to evade those early Tyson bursts of 2 or 3 power shots. He stands right in front of you. And he doesn't slip or parry punches or have anything defensive in nature that is going to cope with that speed and snap of those Tyson shots. Bowe gets hit too flush for my liking to see him get the W against a Mike Tyson.

Golata is no puncher in there and just lands tons of combos to eventually get a guy out of there. That's a whole different ballgame than dealing with the snap and speed and accuracy of a Mike Tyson. And when Bowe gets hit, he trades. I don't think Bowe is that hard of a puncher, even if he lands his uppercuts, to thwart the early Tyson onslaught. Bowe throws a looping right hand from the outside and is wide open for counters even off his landed punches. If he misses a big right hand from the outside, he'll eat a 2 or 3 punch combo in a millisecond.

I always saw this as one of those Tyson bouts where the opponent makes him look like an alltime great because he'll eat the guy up quick. I think this looks like a lot like the Spinks bout in a lot of ways and Bowe doesn't have the equipment to get out of the way of that early assault & tyson goes thru him within 2.

[Colin Maclaurin]

agree almost exactly with what robert is saying.

bowe was a tough nut, but just too hittable. you would see bowe's corner scraping him off the mat circa round 3 like robert wrote.

[hagler04]

Golota not a puncher? Come on, at his best he had some real nice steam on those shots.

I see these unfolding in two ways:

Either he succombs to the Tyson body attack early, drops his hands, and then proceeds to get knocked out from a shot to the kisser.


OR

He absorbs it all, beats Mike on the inside with his superior in-fighting (including an uppercut which Mike would taste flush several times), and Tyson gets discouraged and knocked out late.

[hagler04]

Golota not a puncher? Come on, at his best he had some real nice steam on those shots.

I see these unfolding in two ways:

Either he succombs to the Tyson body attack early, drops his hands, and then proceeds to get knocked out from a shot to the kisser.


OR

He absorbs it all, beats Mike on the inside with his superior in-fighting (including an uppercut which Mike would taste flush several times), and Tyson gets discouraged and knocked out late.

[ceboxer17]

Tyson by late TKO.

[Husker]

Early and often this would get up close and when it does, Tyson stands there like the dope that he was and gets mauled. This might be the strangest thing I've ever written but the 5'11" guy has to beat the 6'5" guy from the outside. Sure Bowe was hittable but Tyson wasn't exactly the second coming of Willie Pep and this isn't pitty-pat Spinks hitting him.

It's possible that Bowe does get KO'd but I doubt it. Although he didn't jab or box enough, he used his size well in every other manner: leaning on guys, pushing, digging tough shots when in close.

Tyson better in the grand scheme of things, legacy and all that other nonsense but I'd pick Bowe with great confidence to frustrate him, survive the initial onslaught and expose his continuous inability to come up with a plan B.

Larry Holmes arguably was shutting him out by simply jabbing and holding. Riddick Bowe won't shut him out by any means and he'll possibly come from the floor to do it but he'll get a late TKO anyway.

[Colin Maclaurin]

I am a little surprised by what i have read here. I have seen tyson holmes and scored every round for tyson... i am curious to know how you scored those first three rounds for larry?

[walshb]

Dream fight. Bowe at his peak was really brilliant, fantastic jab and great speed and variety of shots with enough zip to definitely hurt Tyson. He was a very good inside fighter and has the physical advantages in abundance with the talent to utilise them. This is one tough fight to call as Tyson on his day was devestating. Mike needs to get in close and if so he could KO Bowe. Bowe was not the hardest guy to nail clean. He had a great chin, but Tyson's shots were so fast and cumulative that even if he survives one or two, can he survive 5 or 6 consecutive?. If Bowe uses that ram rod jab and starts fast without being lazy he could do it. It's a tough one to call. I'm going on Tyson by early KO, or Bowe by late KO. That's how I see it

[Husker]

I haven't seen the fight in a few years and I did write "arguably". I'll tell ya what, I'll watch it again sometime this week and get back to you.

For the record, I was very surprised to hear predictions of Bowe lasting only as long as Tubbs and not as long as say Quick Tillis. THAT's surprising.

[Colin Maclaurin]

sorry about that, wasn't intending on knitpicking your point.

[TKO11]

I'm with Colin on this one Husk - Larry did pretty good popping the jab during the first minute of the 4th round, but he hadn't done much of anything beyond survive up until then. And a minute into the 4th he went flat footed for a second and Tyson landed the single most impressive punch of his entire career, leaving Larry going over like Douglas Fir.

In the Tyson v. Bowe matchup, I honestly think that Tyson takes him early. Bowe has somehow become radically overrated in the past few years, and he was RIGHT THERE to be hit. Tyson's sharp hits are going to find the tip of his chin almost guaranteed. And yes Bowe could take it, but give credit where it's due - Tyson was a hell of a finisher when he got someone hurt. I like Tyson, best v. best, to end it early.

[Husker]

Colin: If I say something you think is radical, I want to be called on it. That's what's going to make me look into what I'm putting down and research it. Like I said before, I haven't watched it for awhile and now I have to. It's all good.

TKO: Yes, Bowe has become somewhat mythical as some fighters who shine brightly for 38 seconds do. And most assuredly, Tyson was a supreme finisher and in the grand scheme, much more noteworthy in history.

That said, I still think Bowe wears him out. Don't get me wrong, this isn't as cock-sure as I am about say Leonard-Norris in their primes but it's relatively easy for me to picture. If Bowe had ever shown a long stretch of boxing, using his height, I'd be even more confident but like his famous adversary, Holyfield, Riddick would get hit and go to war.

Since I first posted this I remembered Bowe calling Tyson the Cookie Monster, saying Mike used to shake kids down for their cookies at lunch.

[TKO11]

And I remember calling Bowe the Fried Chicken monster, as he used to send his crew out for a couple of large buckets a day. With extra gravy.

I just don't see Bowe being able to stiff-arm Tyson off. Agree to disagree on this one Husk.

[Husker]

I never heard about the chicken but when I saw that he had a kitchen (not a refrigerator, mind you a kitchen !) installed in the master bedroom, I knew his title reign would be brief.

Ya ever notice we have most of our opposite/different viewpoints when it comes to the big guys? We seem to agree quite a bit more in the lighter weights.

[Overhand_Right]

Bowe was more fighter than Tyson, more tough, and more physical advantages to boot. Im sure Tyson at his best gives Bowe a good beating early on, but Bowe himself was never stopped as a pro and the guy who came closest to it (Golota) saw a spent Bowe come off the floor to deck him and break his jaw in a long ugly argument.

Sorry but Bowe will get into it after a few rds and Tyson will enter obligatory Melt Down mode as he was a game quitter as i think Atlas put it.

[robertk]

I'm hardly convinced Bowe had that good of a chin. What he did have tho was matchmaking that did not put him in with the punchers. I sure don't think it was an oversight when you had Futch in that corner. The only 2 big hitters he ever faced was Lewis as an amatuer & Hide. And Hide didn't have a ton of bouts as a heavyweight at that time & was forced to be the road warrior when the guy is a notorius hometown fighter.

Bowe was dropped badly in that 3rd holyfield fight and just how many guys did Evander really drop with his shots anyway? Bowe sure did make Golata look good in there--not easy to do--and Golata came into those bouts as a novice with his biggest win over Pouha.

[Overhand_Right]

So what was Smokin Bert Cooper then? A feather duster? Cooper tried knock Bowes block off so Bowe kept a sensible distance, kept that jab out there & dropped some bombs on him. Seldon, Ferguson, and Gonzalez were hardly non-hitters in all fairness.

Seriously though i see all your points, but in the end Holyfield hit hard enough to grind out the very durable Tyson. Bowe was down v Holyfield, but you miss how he got back up to knock Holyfield out. How many times did Tyson survive crisis?

Golota a novice is a bit OTT mate. Unknown by many yes, but had very good reviews. If Golota is a novice then what was Ruddock when he was shaking Mikey up?

[hawk5ins]

in Many arguements on both sides here, one thing I did want to comment on is Golota going into the Bowe bouts vs. Ruddock going into the Tyson bouts:

Razor, was MUCH more seasoned and established as compared to Golota.

Ruddock had beaten Mike Weaver, Bonecrusher Smith and Micheal Dokes. And while none were prime versions, they CERTAINLY were huge steps ahead of Sam Pou'Ah, Dannell Nicholson and Jeff Lampkin.

Bert Cooper is a Solid puncher, but I wouldn't call him a HUGE puncher.

But at the same time to ask who Holyfield ever dropped? Mercer, who had a rock for a chin. Tyson. Bowe. He KO'd Dwight Qawi when NO ONE had ever budged him, seemingly, before. I think Evander's power at Heavyweight was proven.

But as far as the Bowe III fight is concerned, the reason Bowe survived that fight, was becuase Evander had NOTHING in his tank to follow up with. He had nothing PRIOR to the knockdown. Evander has ANYTHING left he finishes off Riddick.

Tyson or Bowe?

Bowe imo, had one night of glory in a bout that I think Evander fought one of the dumbest fights of his life. That said, Bowe fought beautiful that night and deserves the accolades.

Tyson late, seems like it would make sense as Bowe winds down and Mike has awesome power. But who did Mike ever take out late?

Bowe has been hurt and dropped. Tyson hits harder than anyone Bowe ever faced and was hurt and dropped by.

Tyson by ko mid rounds sounds right, but I would not rule out Tyson by KO early though. I've seen Bowe shaken up early. Tyson starts early and furious and it's when he's most effective. I don't think it's out of the question Tyson get's him early.

I don't have a whole lot of faith in what I saw from Bowe.

Hawk

[Sharkey]

There have been some guys worse than Bowe that made it to the finish line with the 'prime Tyson'. Might I add none of them had the Offense nor proclivity to use it that Bowe did.

Maybe Riddick being an offense-first fighter willing to field blows would hurt him here. Maybe someone bringing some heat to Mike makes a difference.

Either way, I for one would gladly take the odds Bowe makes it to the end, or at least past mid way point.

[Husker]

That's more or less what I'm saying and asking, Sharks.

Tony Tucker can last the distance along with Quick Tillis and he can get KO'd by Evander Holyfield but Bowe is mere cannon fodder, winding up horizontal a few seconds after the National Anthem?

Don't get me wrong, Tyson was ferocious and the early-to-mid destruction IS POSSIBLE but I think unlikely. This isn't going to be someone trying to survive, like Bonecrusher's disgraceful performance, or someone with nothing to keep Mike off like Tubbs or Spinks.

And while I don't expect Bowe to turn into Jack Johnson and become a defensive whiz, I think it's reasonable to expect that Bowe wouldn't be quite so wide open as he was with lesser piunchers. How that affects his offense, I don't know but I feel Riddick would get his pound of flesh as Bobby Czyz states waaay too much and make this a damned good fight. I think his hand speed, while not on Mike's level was such that he's going to land his shot's and land them often and when he does, Mike's not going to be happy.

And as for it being a good fight, when did Mike EVER overcome solid resistance? When was he in a good fight and won? Hell, as dominant as he was, Mike wasn't ever in a fight other than Douglas & Holyfield, imo. And he would be with Bowe.

Riddick Bowe TKO11. (For the record that is not sarcasm, TKO11. I respect your opinion as much if not more than anyone's, it's just a tip of the hat to Tyson's heart and willingness to walk around getting his ass kicked when he has to resort to the non-existent PLan B)

[TKO11]

Husk - you ought to know as well as anyone that I never have a problem with a difference of opinion on fantasy fights, unless it's something completely ridiculous (like Ken LaKusta KO11 Mike Tyson). And I see preceisely where you and Sharks are coming from.

The reason I don't agree is that the guys that lasted a while with the prime Tyson fought one of two ways - purely for survival (eg Bonecrusher), could actually beat Tyson to the punch and frustrate him by being elusive while hitting (Thomas), or a combination of the two (Tucker). But in none of those fights did Tyson ever look like he was going to lose.

Bowe isn't going to fight like that. Bowe was a "get into the trenches" guy. Points he scored and rounds he won were purely incidental to the fact he was ALWAYS trying to nail the opponent with a shot that would end the fight, or start a chain of shots that would end the fight. He's gonna go toe to toe.

So.... Bowe doesn't punch as hard, isn't as fast, and is every bit as interested in trading as Tyson would be. I'll grant that Bowe has the jab (but I don't think it would even enter into the fight) and is the better infighter (but if they're warring nobody is trying to work inside, and if they do get inside Tyson will clinch 'til the break).

Bowe is superior (at his best) to anyone the best Tyson fought IMO. But given HOW he fights, and how Mike fights, I just think it's a recipe for a quick, ugly disaster for Riddick.

[Husker]

Just two things to add.

1) I watched Tyson-Holmes again and I think I'm going to be forced to watch fights I haven't seen in forever before commenting on them. I kept waiting for Larry to start jabbing him silly (like for some freakish reason I remember him doing) and then having softened him up, going flat-footed in the fourth to wing the coup de grace. Larry was impressive, imo but only relative to the different stages in their careers. I retract my earlier statement.

2) Thanks for shaking my view down to the very core, yet again. I still think Bowe could win but I was actually thinking that maybe he should. Your most recent points are all things I'd swept under the carpet (my own personal backlash against Mike? I don't know).

Oh, well, I lied:three things. There have been some issues regarding the written word vs. the spoken and I edited the post with my pick because I wanted to be very clear I wasn't baiting you. While I'm almost positive that you know that's not my style where you and the majority of others are concerned, I wanted to be specific.

[Husker]

OK, this is getting old.

Having done some tape study, I will now concur that I believe Tyson would score a KO, relatively early against Bowe. As Sharkey pointed out, Bowe would've been the best offensive fighter he faced other than maybe Holyfield. (and the only half hour Douglas ever used his ability)

What I saw on film leads me now to believe this is Bowe's undoing. Classic mistake of factoring only one guys strengths and not the others. Thought I was better than that.

It might only go as far as three rounds but it would be somewhere between Liston-Williams 1 & 2 and Hagler-Hearns, imo. I'd like to thank every knucklehead ( ) on here who offered a dissenting opinion and got me to look at this a little harder.

BTW, for those unfamiliar with me, this makes the third and final time I'm changing my pick in a fantasy match-up. Damn it.

[apollack]

I see this as a pick 'em.

[TKO11]

Hey Husk - I somehow missed your most recent post here in the head-to-wall-banging arguments I've been having over the last couple of days. You continue to be an island of serenity by comparison.

Like I've said all along, I have no problem at all with anyone picking Bowe over Tyson, but as you said, when I analyze both fighter strengths it just doesn't look good for Bowe.

Now, just for fun, ask me why I have such an issue with someone picking Bowe over Tyson. I'll feel like something is missing if nobody takes what I wrote on this thread and mangles and morphs it into a 180 degree different meaning for me.....

[walshb]

Bowe beats Tyson late or Tyson beats Bowe early. If Bowe can survive the initial assaults firing back hard, he has a chance. Bowe's chin I rate highly, though Tyson's sharp power shots can KO Buildings......what a dream fight.
It's definitely a toss up here. I'm gonna' very slightly favor Bowe by late KO......ONLY by a whisker though

[Cojimar 1945]

Golota's record suggests he was nowhere near the puncher that Tyson was yet he had Bowe down twice and gave him a severe battering. Bowe did not face the divisons big punchers as a pro.

Comparing Golota to Ruddock seems rather odd. I was under the impression that Ruddock was viewed as far more formidable than Golota was going into his fights with Tyson. Golota was not rated highly prior to the fights with Bowe.

[Roberto Aqui]

Tyson beat a number of Bowes in his and their primes....Green, Tucker, Tubbs. Now, maybe Green is a stretch, but he presented most of the attributes Bowe had, however Tucker was better and more talented than Bowe.

Bowe never challenged Tyson and chunked his belt in the trashcan for Lewis to scavage. Holy gave him all he could handle and may have beat him hard enough to ruin him in subsequent fights like Golota and force his retirement.

[walshb]

And Tucker was a chicken!!
Bowe I think brings a lot more to the
table than Tucker. Bowe will take the fight to
Mike and not simply aim to survive.
That's the difference as well as Bowe IMO being better all round
than Tucker