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Thread: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

  1. #1291
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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Bill,
    you have an amazing gift for understanding the deep relationship between coach and student which I am sure comes from your vast experience. I thank you very much for calling upon me for my opinion on the subject, and I appreciate your kind words about Marcus, who win or lose will always be admired by me for his extreme dedication to training, clean living and love for his family. The perfect example of a boxer who we would all want to succeed.

    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Gentlemen, if you don't mind... I believe in a similar approach. I coached highschool rugby for seven years, with a good deal of success. I agree that intamacy and trust are key. Another thing I try to do when criticising, is always tell them what they do well first.
    Don't make it a personal issue, make it professional. If they lack mental toughness, or confidence. I would tell them and were smal but fast, I would tell them that from their speed and technique, they could easily take down the bigger guys. I always tried to keep it simple and technical.

    I only asked for one thing and that was effort. My guys were fit. They ran, did pushups and sit upt in every practice, and and then hit. If I did not get that, then they saw my temper, and it was never pretty.

    I believe it was Vince Lombardi who said; "Fatigue makes cowards of us all". I always loved that quote.

    Best of luck with Marcus Ron. I eagerly await the day when I can say, I know that guy after you train your first champ!

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Thank you kindly and I love that saying too about fatigue.
    One of the worst demons to come out of Pandora's box.

    Effort is certainly not much to ask for. Well put.

    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    G'day Ron,

    Before I head off to bed to start another working week, I was hoping you could settle a lingering refereeing question I had in my mind after the Cotto V Margarito fight today.

    I'm not sure if you caught the fight yet and I'm going to watch the tape again tomorrow to see what round he started doing it - But Cotto - Be it from being knocked onto or nearly through them, was bouncing off the second rope a lot tonight - Not Ali Foreman style, almost squatting on the second rope and almost using it like a rubber band to bounce off of at times.

    At least that what it looked like to me. I should note I watched the Main Event International broadcast and not the HBO one so I'm not sure if you guys saw it or noted it as much.

    Bayliss didn't seem to mention it, the Main Event team noted he seemed to be sitting on the 2nd rope a bit - But I my question is what is a guy allowed to do on the ropes in accordance to the rules?

    Is it a refs discretion thing? I mean, I've watched my share of fights now and I've really racked my mind trying to think of another example of it, but to me, 99% of the times a guy in the ropes (aside from the fact that its not the prefered place to be) usually lies or leans back into the ropes, not almost sitting on them/springing off of them.

    It didn't really help Cotto too much, but if you saw this and could post on it, I will sleep better!

    Thanks and kind regards,
    Josh

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hi Josh,

    I can't wait to see the fight next week plus check out what you are speaking about.

    The use of the ropes within accepted parameters is part of boxing history as much as fans yelling from the audience and cornermen yelling from the corner.
    Telling them to stop all three would be like trying to tear a star from its inexorable orbit.

    Giardello, Ali, and an endless horizon of old school warriors would use those ropes while turning, spinning, and manuvering their opponents into a place where they wanted them. Eddie Cotton did that to Johnny Persol one night in the garden and got him but good.

    Holding the ropes with one hand to be a hot dog a la Paz is not allowed. If you are tagged and sag back onto the ropes like Holyfield did when Bert Cooper nailed him and the ropes prevented you from going down, it is a knockdown.

    Randy Gordon on a naitonal telecast talked a long time about my good call to score a knockdown for Ron Morgan against top rated Tony Marshall at the time on an ESPN fight. Morgan tagged Marshall with a solid left hook, he wilted and staggered back onto one of the lower strands of the rope where he sat, boom, I called it a knockdown and gave him the mandatory 8 count.

    Springing off the ropes is part of boxing and laying back on them is something
    that is used as a strategy by some prize fighters. I let them fight, I am Capt Kirk using the Federation directive in not interfering unless it is necessary.

    I don't want to start on the guy again but it is the truth, Art Mercante Jr is about the worst opposite and interferes so damn much in the fight. He is seen all the time grabbing the top or next strand of the rope pulling it tight against the back of a fighter who is leaning on it. He prevents guys getting knocked onto the ring apron, out of the ring and if he was refereeing Dempsey V Firpo there would be a lot of paintings missing in boxing bars today.

    He also tells the fighters how to fight during the fight and eggs them on asking them "Who wants it more" and gets so personally involved it is like his Father scoring in the day for ONLY boxers, who he "Liked" better than the punchers in the contests he refereed.

    There are limits to the use of the ropes. Without getting my good friend Ted The Bull Sares mad at me, I did not like Jimmy Young's tactic of hiding his head outside the ropes.

    I refereed Pernell Whitiker V Gary Jacobs on HBO for the welterweight title.
    Pete would bend so low he could pick up pennies off the ring floor with his mouth if he wanted. That is ok as he would squat down and play with his opponent to hot dog. Weaving, slipping and dipping up and down while near or on the ropes is part of boxing, including being there while being pressed into them and then avoiding a salvo in action.

    Renting a room there to sit and rest beckoning in your opponent like the Sirens in Greek Mythology to come crashing into the rocks answering your call is a no no.

    A referee has got ot be a boxing man to maintain a good action fight without being overly officious while maintaining no unfair advantage given to either fighter within the rules.

    Dirty Harry says, "A man has got to know his limitiations."

    This goes for the Commissioners assigning the wrong ref to big fights.

    God I hope Melvina Lathan really knows the difference between bad refs and good ones.

    On ESPN this weekend, the main event was handled by Steven's guy in NY Ed Claudio. In mid ring again he says to the fighters, "Lets get Poppin."
    C'mon baby lets do it ad infinitum. Too gutteral, too much street jargon and for a main event or a title fight that goes out into living rooms, boxing should be kept at a refined high level of performance, appearance of its officials not to mention the most important thing, the performance of the referee in handling things PROFESSIONALLY.

    Otherwise get a guy from the schoolyard in NYC, put a bowtie on him, give him a few beers and let him ref.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hi Josh,

    I can't wait to see the fight next week plus check out what you are speaking about.

    The use of the ropes within accepted parameters is part of boxing history as much as fans yelling from the audience and cornermen yelling from the corner.
    Telling them to stop all three would be like trying to tear a star from its inexorable orbit.

    Giardello, Ali, and an endless horizon of old school warriors would use those ropes while turning, spinning, and manuvering their opponents into a place where they wanted them. Eddie Cotton did that to Johnny Persol one night in the garden and got him but good.

    Holding the ropes with one hand to be a hot dog a la Paz is not allowed. If you are tagged and sag back onto the ropes like Holyfield did when Bert Cooper nailed him and the ropes prevented you from going down, it is a knockdown.

    Randy Gordon on a naitonal telecast talked a long time about my good call to score a knockdown for Ron Morgan against top rated Tony Marshall at the time on an ESPN fight. Morgan tagged Marshall with a solid left hook, he wilted and staggered back onto one of the lower strands of the rope where he sat, boom, I called it a knockdown and gave him the mandatory 8 count.

    Springing off the ropes is part of boxing and laying back on them is something
    that is used as a strategy by some prize fighters. I let them fight, I am Capt Kirk using the Federation directive in not interfering unless it is necessary.

    I don't want to start on the guy again but it is the truth, Art Mercante Jr is about the worst opposite and interferes so damn much in the fight. He is seen all the time grabbing the top or next strand of the rope pulling it tight against the back of a fighter who is leaning on it. He prevents guys getting knocked onto the ring apron, out of the ring and if he was refereeing Dempsey V Firpo there would be a lot of paintings missing in boxing bars today.

    He also tells the fighters how to fight during the fight and eggs them on asking them "Who wants it more" and gets so personally involved it is like his Father scoring in the day for ONLY boxers, who he "Liked" better than the punchers in the contests he refereed.

    There are limits to the use of the ropes. Without getting my good friend Ted The Bull Sares mad at me, I did not like Jimmy Young's tactic of hiding his head outside the ropes.

    I refereed Pernell Whitiker V Gary Jacobs on HBO for the welterweight title.
    Pete would bend so low he could pick up pennies off the ring floor with his mouth if he wanted. That is ok as he would squat down and play with his opponent to hot dog. Weaving, slipping and dipping up and down while near or on the ropes is part of boxing, including being there while being pressed into them and then avoiding a salvo in action.

    Renting a room there to sit and rest beckoning in your opponent like the Sirens in Greek Mythology to come crashing into the rocks answering your call is a no no.

    A referee has got ot be a boxing man to maintain a good action fight without being overly officious while maintaining no unfair advantage given to either fighter within the rules.

    Dirty Harry says, "A man has got to know his limitiations."

    This goes for the Commissioners assigning the wrong ref to big fights.

    God I hope Melvina Lathan really knows the difference between bad refs and good ones.

    On ESPN this weekend, the main event was handled by Steven's guy in NY Ed Claudio. In mid ring again he says to the fighters, "Lets get Poppin."
    C'mon baby lets do it ad infinitum. Too gutteral, too much street jargon and for a main event or a title fight that goes out into living rooms, boxing should be kept at a refined high level of performance, appearance of its officials not to mention the most important thing, the performance of the referee in handling things PROFESSIONALLY.

    Otherwise get a guy from the schoolyard in NYC, put a bowtie on him, give him a few beers and let him ref.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Thank you so much Ron. Look forward to your thoughts after you get a chance to catch the fight.

    After reading your post - I was watching Holyfield Bowe I on Friday night in preparation for the weekends action - And just to remember when HW's actually threw more than 5 punches a round - I just love the 10th round as I'm sure all action fight fans do - But that should have been a 10-8 round to Bowe when Holyfield was sent reeling from the uppercut and follow up shot that knocked him into the corner post? Would you have issued a count in that exmaple?

    That also triggers another question on Cortez from that fight - Bowe catches Holyfield with a right hand club to the back of the head in I think the 11th, Holy went down and got up drooling - Can a ref give a recovery period for any foul shot or just a low blow?

    Cheers for your insight as always mate,
    Josh

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by doomeddisciple
    Thank you so much Ron. Look forward to your thoughts after you get a chance to catch the fight.

    After reading your post - I was watching Holyfield Bowe I on Friday night in preparation for the weekends action - And just to remember when HW's actually threw more than 5 punches a round - I just love the 10th round as I'm sure all action fight fans do - But that should have been a 10-8 round to Bowe when Holyfield was sent reeling from the uppercut and follow up shot that knocked him into the corner post? Would you have issued a count in that exmaple?

    Reply: Josh, I would have to see this fight again as I do not remember that specifically. Certainly 10-8 rounds are justified when one fighter completely dominates another in such a fashion. Remember all 3 minutes have to count for something in the mind of a pro fight judge. If the post or ropes were not there and the fighter would have gone down but was prevented from being floored by the turnbuckle or the ropes it is justified to count it as a knockdown.

    That also triggers another question on Cortez from that fight - Bowe catches Holyfield with a right hand club to the back of the head in I think the 11th, Holy went down and got up drooling - Can a ref give a recovery period for any foul shot or just a low blow?

    Reply: Yes he can, rabbit punches, kidney punch, and injury from roughhousing, wrestling, throwing a fighter out of the ring, onto the ring apron, slamming him into the turnbuckle, twisting his arm, biting him, heeling him with an open glove, hitting him on the break, backhanding him, use of the knee and any other unsportsman like conduct which causes an intentional injury via a foul tactic.

    As to Cortez and Bowe v Holyfield, If he professionally makes a decisive ruling then and there that all can see and hear, meaning the fighters, their corners, the commission, the commentators and the fans it helps to avoid misunderstanding and controversy. If a legal punch is in motion and the recipient ducks into it, turns away or in anyway contributes to it landing in other than a legal territory that is a factor also for determining an intentional or unintentional foul. This is part of boxing and a real boxing guy should be the ref and not be overly officious. The problem with too many refs who make their bones in the amateurs. Both Mercantes were much too overly officious as some other refs are too involving themselves too much in the fight. Slapping the fighters on the back loudly, lecturing them, telling them how to fight etc.

    If the ref determines based on what he saw for sure that an INTENTIONAL foul punch was thrown after a legitimate punch contributed to a surefire knockdown, he can do the following:

    1. Call Time loudly and make the handsign for it. Call for the doctor to examine the hurt athlete. Loudly rule, "Rabbit punch to the back of the head, illegal blow" 5 minutes to recover for the stricken fighter. 1 or two point deduction command given to the 3 judges along with the emphatic call that the knockdown was legitimate and should be scored as such. The math is the judges domain. Remember the fighter scoring the knockdown has to be given credit for it with his legal punch. He is being penalized for his illegal punches that followed if this is the case.

    Point to the floor for the 3 judges and loudly call, legitimate knockdown or knockdown counts, then the points to be deducted for the intentional foul should be clearly told to the 3 judges that it is the refs ruling and direction to them.

    2. After 5 minutes if the doctor rules the injured fighter cannot continue AFTER the referee has ruled an intentional foul, he wins on a DQ. If the doctor rules the injured fighter can continue, then the bout goes on with the point deductions factored in.

    Cheers for your insight as always mate,
    Josh

    best,

    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Ron, on the Cotto-Margo fight, Cotto took a count (the second time) without being hit. Is that like turning your back insofar as the referee stopping the fight?

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Mr Lipton

    A few pages back you were kind enough to answer my questions on the oustanding Nino Benvenuti. Below is a link from the UK's Boxing News new website with a very recent interview with Nino which I thought you may like to read, if you have not already.

    http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/BN08/detail.asp?id=585

    (Also to the right of the interview is a list of other recent interviews with ex-fighters)

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Ron - You rule.

    Enjoy the fight, I know you will.

    Josh

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KOJOE90
    Mr Lipton

    A few pages back you were kind enough to answer my questions on the oustanding Nino Benvenuti. Below is a link from the UK's Boxing News new website with a very recent interview with Nino which I thought you may like to read, if you have not already.

    http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/BN08/detail.asp?id=585

    (Also to the right of the interview is a list of other recent interviews with ex-fighters)

    Reply: Can't wait to check this out and thank you KOJOE.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    G'day Ron,

    When I was getting keen for the Clottey Judah yesterday I watched the tape of Margaritto Cotto again and yet another thought struck me to further populate this thread:

    "I wonder what Ron Lipton thought of Kenny Bayliss' performance in this fight?"

    It was a tough physical fight that had potential for a Cortez to destroy it jumping in too much, but Kenny really seemed to let the fighters fight and wasn't intrusive at all.

    I also wondered with your trainer hat on if you would make any adjustments to Margarito's style - For his height and leverage and while he obviously throws heavy shots - He seems to be more about moving forward an concentrating on pressure - Does this change the distribution of weight and power he can transfer in comparison to say a fight like Trinidad who almost looks like he's doing the splits, so wide apart are his feet planted when he starts throwing that hook.

    Hope you had a good weekend and if I ask too much, then feel free to ignore me, you've only yourself to blame with your generiosity and great posts that I bug you all the time.

    Thanks mate,

    Josh

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Josh,

    I don't want to slam Bayliss personally. I watched the fight and as a fan I see things that are upsetting as to who they let have the honor of being in charge of these title fights and why and how they got there to do it in the first place with no real boxing experience.

    I do have strong reactions and thoughts to what I saw, and if I was a Commissioner, as a guy who has fought, refereed, trained fighters and worked corners I would be very careful as to who I would let referee and judge.

    Being a nice guy does not make you a good ref, just want to say that. I knew and met Kenny a seemingly nice guy when he was an inspector. He wanted to be a referee so they let him.

    During the fight his facial expressions of extreme emotion, anxiety, herky jerky indecisive hand gestures as he darts in gesturing to the fighters and then changes his mind in mid stream combined with a few other things as to his physical movements are very disconcerting to a fighter, a fand and do get in the way.

    He exhibitis physically noticable things in there that are almost much too much overly emotional, not that there is anyting wrong with that Mr. Seinfeld. Watch the fight again and you will see what I mean.

    I don't think he has a real sense of boxing history, nor had any real fight experience himself and to be given this many title fights out of friendship, it just reminds me of a few others who came up that way and it is disturbing as to how the choice was made to begin with. Doing title fights as a referee who is actually in there has been given to the most BIZZARE choices imaginable over the years by political people.

    Mercante Jr along with Tony Perez and some others were about the worst, and ruined, crippled and killed fighters with their terrible ignorant refereeing.

    The political people who run boxing have friends who have a hunger to be on TV and to control strong "mens" in action, be that non physical guy who tells strong mens what to do. It is objectionable to begin with and it has happened in NY, NJ and elsewhere.

    NOT ENOUGH DUES PAID IN BOXING ITSELF, sorry but it is true.
    The damage done by Cortez in his absolutely fucking horrible handling of the Hatton V Mayweather fight, followed by his leaving that poor soul bleeding on the deck, the way he speaks in the ring, only to get ANOTHER title fight and payday given to him shows you how insane the assignment process is.

    Do you think after Abraham V Miranda I, that Randy Neuman should have been sat down forever as referee? How the hell did Ron Scott Stevens in doing a "FAVOR" for NJ let Randy referee Golota 3 times in NY and screw up knockdowns, sweating, gasping for air, beet red faced while moving slow, why?

    Randy is friends with people, so what. Whether a guy is a mean son of a bitch, or a nice guy has NOTHING to do with their being given a referee assignment.

    Bayless to me is a very very awkward Sesame street big bird kind of guy, who may be a nice man, I do not know for sure, he probably is, but he does not look good in that ring handling big fights, much too awkward, in that big bird way and his gestures and facial expressions are very questionable to me.

    Margarito I would add one shot punching power to, which in his case I know just how I would do it based on his posture and body type and style.
    I would care a little bit more about him as a person and reallyl stop him from taking so much punishment to the head. He throws from the same type of body mechanics as Pavlik as to height and how they stand up fairly straight and start throwing everything at you except with the Mexican touch of style, el gancho etc

    Trinidad when he was in shape found his power through balance, combinations and vicious snap with heavy hands with pin point accuracy.
    Margarito is very accurate too and is quite formidable and smarter than you think in there, he is a relentless pressure artist and good finisher while maintaining grim determination to win throughout the bout.

    I would be curious as to what he reallly does aerobically to prepare as he seems to have boundless energy.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Ron,

    With all due respect. Do you think you are being a little hard on Bayless in comparing him to Neuman, Cortez and the the likes of Mercante Sr?

    I only watched the fight once(live) and I was most impresses at the fact that I did not notice Bayless in the fight. He let the two guys fight their hearts out with a few warnings when the punches started to get a little low.

    I know in situations like this, you are uch more perceptive than I am, but I still feel he did a credible job. Maybe the fighters made an easy night for him as well...

    One thing I gauged his performance on was by the comments my friend (who is a casual boxing fan at best) said. He constantly commented on how they never held. I think this is a testament to both fighters. I really enjoyed the scrap.

    I promise to be more attentive when I happen to watch it again, but I saw no real imcompetence on the level of the three aforementioned hacks.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    You are correct, perhaps a bit harsh and I am sorry as he is not incompetent.

    As a referee and super fan of these big fights and their history, there are ways to annoy fighters by herky jerky movement or indecisive gestures, as when I fight I see any movement near me and refs should be as refined as possible, that is what I mean. I wish Kenny the best, I just would suggest to any Commission to use a ref for a title fight that has boxing experience, knowledge of boxing history, is in excellent shape and knows the game from A-Z in that ring, which comes from deep knowledge of boxing and as I said its history.

    He seems a bit out of shape to me and a bit awkward, is what I meant.
    Again I apologize if I said it too mean, I will watch my words more carefully and you are correct and I was wrong.

    Best,
    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    No apology necessary sir. I believe in your mantra 100 percent. I also have learned how uch of a perfectionest you are, so I understand the critique, but as far as ref's go, I would say that Bayless, has never come across nearly as inept as so many others.

    Again, I am sure you could point out so many flaws in technique. In the few videos I have seen of you as the third man, I can only say that you were completely on the ball, quick to react and aware of ell things going on.(although I never undestood the standing eight count you gave in the Ruddock, Morrison fight untill you explained it).

    I look forward to watcing the fight again so I can be more aware of what Bayless was doing. Sorry if I offended you in any way.

    Brendan

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    You did not offend me in any way and I thank you for pointing out I was a bit harsh, I had actually just seen the film, and wondered at some of his actions, but I am a bit overly critical.

    When Razor got the standing 8 at one point his left and right eyes were both contricted and dilated which is a bad sign. I told the Doc that also. He took 10 unanswered punches after that devastating knockdown without fighting back and I knew he had kids and a wife who cared about him.


    The other one he grabbed the rope to prevent himself from going down.

    Again, best wishes to Kenny and hope he does well in all he does.

    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    And that, my dear man...

    Is why I have come to respect you so much.

    Is there any kkind of head way being made with your case against the NY Athletic commission? What are the chances of us seeing you in the ring again?

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Depends on how much truth Melvina Lathan is told about what actually was done, who is whispering in her ear behind the scenes to protect the guilty and how strong she is to stand up to it.

    If she knew the full truth, which we will get to her, she will never look at this people the same again. Some people that are still there are linked to the worst kind of political pork barrel stuff imaginable.

    They literally have NO business being in boxing, it is absolutely sickening what they have done, and what Stevens allowed to be done to keep his job.

    I have tried to forgive some who were involved and who did and wrote things and organized things to really hurt me, for no reason except to push their friends into main event assignments. 10 years of damage was done to me and my family. It is quite easy to prove, first we will see what honesty and integrity exist there now.

    Thank you for caring Brendan

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Thank you once again for your considered reply Ron.

    I share Off The Rivers view in that it was pleasant, and after recent fights of a similar physical nature - to [b]not[\b] see the referee jumping in there every two seconds, not doing anything useful and only really disturbing the flow of the fight.

    Thanks heaps for the training tips for Antonio as well. I would really like to see what he does aerobically as well - I think I'd get winded just reading it...

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    My pleasure Doom.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    This is to continue the discussion on clinching we were having on the Cotto-Margarito thread. Someone suggested that Cotto would have won had he clinched when Margarito got on the inside. Then an exchange ensued on clinching as a tactic. Below are my response to such comment and then Ron's response to a question I directed at him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael
    I consider clinching somewhat acceptable if you are in a dire situation and want to catch a breather. The rules of boxing clearly state that excessive clinching is a foul, and that is what some fighters consistently do these days. Guys like Klitschko (vs. Thompson), Hopkins (vs. Wright and Calzaghe), and Casamayor (vs. Santa Cruz), just to mention some examples, grabbed on for dear life every time the fight got to the inside. Hatton has done this in many fights too (he initiated a clinch every 11 seconds in the Urango fight!), even though he is supposed to an inside fighter. This type of holding is excessive by any definition, and unfortunately is very seldom penalized by referees. Why? I don't know. My hypothesis is that referees feel a lot of pressure not to be too "interventionist" or "ruin" a fight by warning and/or deducting points from people who are habitual clinchers. I reckon that inaction from a referee in these cases is equally -or more- detrimental, and can in fact ruin a fight even faster. Clinching is not just supposed to be a tactic to avoid fighting on the inside. There are legal ways of accomplishing this. I'd like to hear what Ron has to say about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
    It is true Rafael that in the NYSAC rule book for example that two minor fouls are maintaining a clinch and holding. Yet in pro boxing if this was enforced to the letter virtually every single pro fight would be ruined by referees being overly officious.

    Tying a fighter up, clinching when you are stunned is part of the game. Maintaining a clinch, refusing to break clean is another animal.

    Excessive holding after every single punch depending on the participation of both combatants, their positioning and the mutual flow of the fight are finite considerations for an experienced referee.

    What Cortez did to Hatton was just horrible and robbed him of an inside fight.
    I have studied the film 10 times at least and he would break them when they were not even locked up.

    As discussed elswhere, I DQ Charlie "White Lightning" Brown V Jake "The Snake" Rodriquez for failing to obey the referee's commands, hard warnings about the ongoing course of conduct of repetitive holding, maintaining clinches and refusing to fight.

    It followed many chances given and warnings administered.

    A referee can paint himself into an uncomfortable corner by issuing warnings that are not merited in the pro ranks, that is why amateur referees who made their bones in the amateurs sometimes make horrible pro refs like Mercante Jr and others.

    I can sometimes eliminate certain behavior by both fighters which causes them to both hold and grab to avoid being fouled. Experience solves all referee nightmares. The better you are the less they want to use you, because the Commissions have certain friends they want in there.

    Did you EVER see anything worse e.g. than Tony Perez, Mercante, Neuman and others including Cortez, yet there they are again and again.

    There is definitely a time to put a stop to holding and other times to leave it alone if it is done quickly and part of a spin, tie up, grabbing an elbow in defense etc.

    Someone is always going to bitch. Watch the films of Canizalez V Junior Jones, a simple, very simple fight with no real holding fouls at all.
    After the fight Jesse Reid was crying so much about not taking points away from Jones all that was missing was breasts in his hysterics.

    Jones beat him hands down, and fought a smart pro fight. Canizalez fought very bravely too but lost fair and square.

    Point deductions have to follow hard warnings and gross disobedience unless it is an intentional foul. Hatton for example should have been warned before a point taken away in such an important fight after PBF turned his back on him and was rabbit punching Hatton too. Cortez just instantly took a point away after breaking them for daring to fight inside.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
    Point deductions have to follow hard warnings and gross disobedience
    I'd like to focus the attention on this statement, which basically was the original point I raised. In fights like Klitschko-Thompson, Hopkins-Wright, and Casamayor-Santa Cruz, one of the fighters used clinching to avoid inside fighting throughout the whole fight. I think this is unacceptable, and certainly should not be allowed by a referee w/o issuing penalties. The way these fighters "worked" was by clutching the opponent when he took it to the inside. The referee would then ask for a break or break the clinch himself. Then the next inside sequence, the same guy would initiate a clinch again, then the break, and so on. As a result, we got basically zero inside fighting in all of these fights. I just don't see how this should be allowed to happen. Wouldn't the right thing be to issue a series of warnings (first soft and then hard) as the behavior starts to become repetitive and then issue point deductions if the fighter continues to clinch in spite of the warnings? Robert Byrd did issue a couple of warnings to Hopkins in the Wright fight, but Bernard continued to do it and got no penalty. Same with Smoger in the Casamayor-Santa Cruz fight. Cortez issued no warnings to Wlad in the Thompson fight. In my opinion, allowing this type of repeated clinching with no consequence really amounts to giving one of the fighters an unfair advantage. Doesn't it?

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    What you say Rafael is correct. I would issue those warnings if it was in fact an ongoing course of conduct and then point deductions would follow.

    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Ron sent me the following message with two photos:

    August 2008

    Juan,

    Much has been written on my thread about the English fighter Marcus Glenn Randle that was sent here from England by his Father Jim Glenn who wrote the wonderful book "Gilroy" about the famous fighter who fought Marcel Cerdan among other boxing greats.

    Marcus completed 5 weeks of training with me and when we were done his punching power almost doubled with both hands, he developed a nice six pack of abs and his arms and back all improved tremendously as did his legs, with my training methods.

    He was one of the finest young men I have ever met and his training dedication to his roadwork, boxing work and gym work in physical fitness boxing training with me was quite admirable as we trained shoulder to shoulder the whole time. He became like family to us and he is going to go far as a boxer.

    Here are some of his pictures with me during our training, and it should be noted he did not have that six pack of abs when we started, note his shoulders and bicep development which did not exist when he arrived here the first day.



    Marcus Randle



    Ron Lipton

    His chest work designed by me for a fighter shows his pecs defined and ripped. He is an amazing boxer puncher now
    and this 22 year old is a really dedicated clean living lad, who has a wonderful hardworking family who backs him all the way.

    His intense training paid off and the last day he was here I had my good friend Tracy Harris Patterson visit me as a favor for Marcus to meet him. Tracy wrapped his hands for him like Floyd used to do and work the punch mitts with Marcus who did a splendid job. Tracy told us that Marcus has great hand speed. Marcus went back to England on Tuesday August 12th and arrived home safely. We will miss him here and everyone who met him liked him very much.

    Ron
    Last edited by Juan C Ayllon; 08-14-2008 at 03:42 PM.

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    Not Bad for 62!



    Taken 8 days before my 62nd birthday. Training with fighters each day, juicing, no red meat, plenty of vegtables and fruit has paid off.

    -- Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    If I look even half as good as Mr. Lipton when i'm his age I will be a very happy man. Very inspiring to see what maintaining a little "eye of the tiger" can do for a man.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Thanks Surf-Bat,
    I was hitting the bag the other day and got it on film.
    I was with Marcus Glenn Randle from England and Tracy Patterson who came to visit me and Glenn. I got off some of the hardest right hands and short left hooks I ever threw, with some old injuries still whipping at me, God must love stubborn old war dogs. Thanks for the flowers pal.

    Ronnie

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
    I got off some of the hardest right hands and short left hooks I ever threw, with some old injuries still whipping at me, God must love stubborn old war dogs.
    Ron, you should upload a clip of you hitting the bag onto youtube. If the clip is saved on your computer's hard drive it's real simple to do, even for those (us) less technically inclined.

    Peace,

    Bill

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