Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

[Dino1]

Hi Ron, recently, I have watched some films of Gerry Cooney on YouTube. The guy had undeniable power in his left, and a decent right. But I noticed that he had very little development in the biceps, triceps, and pecs, yet he still hit incredibly hard. The old fight manager Jack Hurely used to say "balance and leverage make punching power" -- was this the case with Cooney? By looking at him, I don't think he did any strength training, but he sure could hit. Thanks for your opinion.

[Ron Lipton]

Hi Dino,

It has been my pleasure to know Gerry and he works with Randy Gordon as a co host on their great radio show. Any way you cut the cake Gerry was a force in that ring. One thing for sure, he had that unusually devastating left hook thrown in unconventional ways while mixing it up with you and then boom all of a sudden he would shoot it from underneath between the gloves, to the body, around the glove, and double it up to the body and head.

Buddy Baer also of similar height weighing around 237lbs vs Louis the first time had both hands and like Gerry the wide shoulders, strong skeletal mechanics, but no real muscle development in the biceps, triceps, pecs etc. Just two very naturally strong guys in that ring.

Baer knocked 201lb Joe Louis out of the ring onto the apron with a left hook. He paid for it in spades doing a 360 when Joe tagged him with a right, he also beat Tony Galento on a TKO. Some criticize Gerry's victories over Lyle, Norton and Young saying they were past their prime.

I think they were all still dangerous enough for anyone and Cooney did the job on them. He also fought his heart out against Holmes. I still cannot believe to this day that Mike Spinks took him out or big old George.

I think Gerry's style and training were pretty much written in stone for him from the amateur days as to who was training him. He beat tough Alex Stewart in the NY GG, who I refereed as a pro. He was tough and strong, but I feel he could have been even better with some different training for the arms, shoulders, back etc.

Hitting hard is a combination of many things. On You Tube you see muggers, robbers, thugs and scum of the earth sucker punching helpless clerks, victims including women. I include two examples below. I promise you, they would never land that on me and I have the speed to KO and counter both to death, but do they hit hard? Answer yes, against a helpless victim, but against another pro, or on the heavy bag? No.

If a fighter wants to hit hard, wants a punch to be hard, that's too the first step, the thought to make it hard, the balance, full body control, hand speed, and harnessing the full muscular power of your body in a well timed punch or combination of punches, with hand strength part of the delivery upon impact too.

Sometimes I stand alone in my belief's on punching power but I've studied it all my life and teach it well. One must be in top condition to deliver it continuously
like Tyson, Foreman, Liston and Dempsey used to do, or if you will like Rubin Carter, Lew Jenkins and explosive maniac punchers. They are dangerous.

Others have great timing like Bob Foster and Archie Moore, others would wear you down like Marciano. You need it all and I am a firm believer in developed functional muscle as being superior for one's own body than under developed muscle. You can be smoothed muscled, lean, and be a heavy blaster too.

Punching power is a magic that Gerry had in that left hook, Graziano had in his right hand, TNT on delivery, it was just there, and all controlled by the mind set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QVDIFn0-_c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7mxI...eature=related

[Dino1]

Thank you, Ron. When I see pictures of "skinny" Bob Foster, I still cannot believe how hard he hit. Look at his fights against Mike Quarry, Vincete Rondon, etc. What explosive power the guy had.

[Ron Lipton]

I met Bob at MSG a long time ago when he fought Ernie Terrell, I was at ringside for that one. I saw him live take out Dick Tiger too which shocked me to no end to this day. In Reno Nevada at a convention I had a few drinks with him and spent about an hour talking to him. When we shook hands again, I took note of the heavy power of his hand. He was one lean, mean fighting machine and from what I heard of him a killer with his hands on the streets too and very feared and with good reason in bar fights.

He of course became a Sheriff Deputy working the metal detector for court in New Mexico. Remember also, he knocked out Henry Hank and Eddie Cotton, Cotton with a hard left hook on the neck. I wish I could see both those fights on film.

[Dino1]

Ron, Bob Foster was one of the few men who cut Ali. I believe after their fight, Ali needed a few stitches. Would have loved to have seen him fight Moore, Holyfield, Charles, or Spinks. I am sure he and Sam Langford would have made for some sparks too.

[Ron Lipton]

Re: R.I.P. - Referee Wayne Kelly

Wayne and I go back a long way over 20 years, me and my son Brett always had a great time with him, We worked many great fight nights together and traveled to many boxing conventions and I always knew I had a pal in my corner. I received a call from Randy Gordon who told me and I was in absolute shock to hear it.
Wayne, Randy and me had many wonderful pro boxing memories with each other.

I am very saddened to hear this, Wayne was the best, a brave man, a former boxer, a great father and a dear friend. My condolences to his son and daughter, your father was the best.

love,
Ron

[Ron Lipton]

Re: RIP Angelo Dundee

A very sad day to learn of this. What a wonderful kind and decent man. R.I.P. my good friend and thank you for all your kindness.
We went on Johnny Carson together with Ali and on Dick Cavett together with Ali and spent great times together in Florida and at the fights all over the country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa7eW41b8kg

Losing Wayne Kelly and Angelo in one day has been a tragic day for boxing and me personally.

R.I.P. Angie

[Ron Lipton]

Rough day today for me seeing my brother referee Wayne Kelly at his funeral, his two beautiful children showed great dignity. Good to see Randy Gordon there too. Then off to see Emile Griffith for his birthday for a visit in the Care Center he is in. My son Brett and I spent some hours there with him and his son Luis and friends.
Very sad for me. Then outside the Care Center while walking to my car, we saw two stray dogs, two pals, hanging out together. As we turned onto the main drag Lakeville Road, some guy ran over one of the dogs and we heard the chilling scream of this poor animal. It was in the road with broken hips and God knows what internal injuries, we called the police and begged them to get a vet to save the dog.

Not a good day, plus the loss of my dear friend Angelo Dundee. Life is getting tougher by the second.

[Ron Lipton]

"impact," jewish boxers in america

IMPACT, with Ron Lipton, Dmitri Salita, Ed Gersh, Cletus Seldon, an upcoming documentary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5KW-iXdcS0

[JaKob]

Ron just would like to get your opinion on the referees in MMA in comparison to those in boxing. I've been watching MMA for quite some time now and i've noticed that the referee's tend to have martial arts/athletic back grounds, are physically fit, and show suprising athleticism and reflexes when it comes to the need to get between fighters and officially stop the fighters. In a sport where the difference between the levels of damage inflicted is measured in split seconds i think this makes a huge difference. Do you think this is something that needs to be addressed with the officials in boxing?

[Ron Lipton]

Yes I do, but they do not care. It is all alphabet appointments usually dominated by friendship, donations, convention attendance, money spent, cocktail party maneuverings at those conventions and the endless appointments of the same referees, judges, of fat, slow, inept, political pals who sadly and often deliberately appointed with reverse racial and cultural allegiance by the sanctioning bodies who use the same pals over and over again making a boxing mockery of anyone with any skill other than their pals attending their functions to get plumb assignments. Boxing is controlled by political imbeciles who acquiesce to the alphabet groups in exchange for being given trips to hotels, paid airfare, room, board and meals to do their bidding. All would be ok except for the rotten refereeing, rotten judging, rotten decisions, and the ridiculous explanations for it all.

Just ask Gerald McClellan if he can speak about the buffoon ref in his fight with Nigel, Beathoven Scotland about his fight with Jones, or Yuri Foreman's wife about that ref who wanted to have a better hi lite reel for himself in the Cotto fight, or perhaps Amir Khan about his DC fight, or ask Ron Lipton about the shape he is in and how hard he trains, his record as a referee, his knowledge of pro boxing and see who gets the assignments to this BLOODY DAY, for the big fights without any regard for boxing justice or the boxers.

Yes with my background in MMA, my blackbelt in Judo, my decades of training martial artists, the officials in MMA are better.
What needs to be addressed is a detailed Federal Civil Rights suit, with copies to the respective governors, from a person who is running out of patience or faith in any fair play whatsoever from people who should have my back from having worked with them, having been a former police officer, and an honest and top shelf referee who has waited for a fair shake for a major title fight just about long enough.

blessings,
Ron

[KOJOE90]

Hi Ron

I've been doing some martial arts training of late the style is shown in the link below. (the guy in the video Eddie trains the guy who trains me).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6S0fefYyz8

What do you think? At first I found standing Southpaw really strange but I am getting used to it now, but my footwork still needs a lot of work.

I have also been doing a bit of basic jiu jitsu just with a friend (whom has been doing it for 15 years) which I am really enjoying.

And there is a chance of me doing a 6 week course in basic Krav Maga soon, do you have any experience in this?

Many thanks.

KOJOE

[Ron Lipton]

KOJOE90,
It is all good, all animals from the porcupine to the elephant have their methods of self defense. I am a striker and submission fighter, boxing, Judo, wrestling, and a bit of every system is part of me. Krav Maga is effective if one is strong, in shape, aggressive, decisive and determined. Timing, Power, speed, flexibility and a hard body and hard body parts that don't break in hard combat are essential.

The guy in the video is strong and a dangerous opponent. If he was hit by a young Rubin Carter, Earnie Shavers or a Ron Lyle from Middleweight to heavyweight while getting close to throw the forearm smashes he would have to be able to take a punch. If one lets him smash your collar bone or neck he has the power to disable you for sure.

One must choose a method of fighting that they can execute with power and speed and angles too to deal with a kicker, a brutally strong person etc.

I always train to end most fights within a short time with the fastest and hardest strikes possible.

I never let anyone get in my body space with aggression, I had to allow this ONLY once about two weeks ago going against all my principals of self defense, because of time, place and witnesses. It ended ok, but went against everything I believe in regarding self defense.

Self defense is PREVENTING an attack by getting there first with DYNAMITE. Throwing down on a guy in the video could open you up for a smashing counter,
it is better to have the speed and power to get him in mid attack if you can survive it with balance.

I always practice fighting southpaw too and you should keep it up.

Looks like a beneficial course Joe.
best,
Ron

[Dino1]

Ron,
Bonavena was listed at 6' or 5'11" but in pictures I've seen of him standing next to Floyd Patterson, I don't think he was that tall. As far as you can remember, how tall was he? Also, he seems very thick, did he train with weights? I know in those days most fighters did not. Any thoughts on him would be appreciated. I always felt that with dedication he could have gone even further than he did. Although he certainly had a fine career. Was always sorry he never fought Jerry Quarry or Foreman.

[Ron Lipton]

I saw Oscar in person many times and talked with him at MSG through an interpreter pal of his before and after some of the big fights there. I also saw his early prelim days at the old Garden and remember it like yesterday. I took a photo of him after one of his bouts which I have right here but do not know how to post it without some help from Juan A. I know he used weights especially doing benches and bicep curls.

He was one tough man and was fearless in his fights with Frazier, Ali, Chuvalo and Patterson. He seemed to be about 5'11 about 205lbs thick as a brick. He had a powerful chopping short right hand and his left hook was heavy and dangerous. He came to fight and had a tough mindset and fiery temper.

As tough as he was he could not take a 30-06 in the chest which is a cartridge that has stopped all the big game in North
America including Grizzlies. He messed with the wrong guy's woman and the rest is tragic. He always had a smile and hug for me as a fan.

[Dino1]

Ron, I remember right after Bonavena was shot, an FBI agent said something like "if you are big and strong and a bully like Oscar was 99% of the people will step aside for you....but there is that 1% who will not step back, instead they step forward with a gun. Oscar had the bad luck to meet a member of that 1% that night in Reno."

[Ron Lipton]

Absolutely true Dino, I know that for sure. In all my life's travels as a former uniformed police officer, Detective, fighter, bouncer, living in dangerous neighborhoods and also seeing the violent atmosphere of jails and prisons with all those confrontational dangerous encounters witnessed therein I know any one person male or female, teenager or adult regardless of size can kill you and quickly too. Some people's anger and emotional disposition far outweigh their fear of any antagonist.

Police officers know this and are attacked and resisted by the most unsuspecting persons you can see on videos all the time, intelligence or thinking things out to their ultimate conclusion never even enter into the equation in the mind of a nut. With Oscar, he felt he was invulnerable, could knock out anyone and do whatever he wanted to anyone as all he had to do was stand up, yell, put up his fists and they would cower in fear.

It was his final mistake.

[nfc90210]

Ron, what's your opinion on this workout program?

http://jassenbowman.com/health-fitne...rkout-program/

[Ron Lipton]

Hi nfc90210,

I read it all and it was written awhile ago as it states. It would whip anyone alive into great aerobic condition whose cardiovascular health could withstand the grueling pace it sets. There is no one that can argue that the swimming and running would turn that person into one hell of poster boy of an endurance healthy cyborg along with the 6 sets e.g. of 25 pushups along with the chin ups, situps and dips.

There are not many people who could sustain that kind of work out even building up to it. Any part of it is good for you and it does advocate stretching and recovery.

Today, a workout program has to be individualized with great care to avoid injury and with a specific goal based on a person's health history so one does not either drop dead running too much or tear a rotator cuff or ruin their knees and lower back.

When I trained side by side with Hurricane Carter and Dick Tiger, plus my own bodybuilding methods which kept me strong and fluid, not tight, it was all I could do to keep up with them. They could both run forever and had not an ounce of fat on them, but it was the sparring which was hellacious and took the most endurance to do it right. All the other stuff, running, situps, pushups, etc were just to enable you to spar like a real fight.

I could do sets of 100 pushups, 100 dips, 100 situps, along with Carter. Tiger trained differently. We all ran between 3.5-6 miles depending on what Carter wanted to do. He would drink and smoke on the side and still no one could keep up with him, amazing athlete. Yet in that ring, I would still get tired as would everyone else because he would make you fight to the death to keep him off of you. I dreaded getting in there with him, and I was the most afraid of getting too tired in there and losing power.

I think like Gil Clancy told me once when I told him about how we trained, he said, "You guys run too much." So it boils down to what you are training to do.

Too much muscle like a Mr. Olympia is only for show and they would die training like a boxer, a great runner could get knocked out quickly in that ring but excels at running. Those S.E.A.L.S who my brother took care of as a Commander Dr. in the NAVY, were a force to deal with, believe me, as Osama Bin Laden found out.

They are like super heroes.

[JaKob]

Question Ron. Im sure there's probably noone better to ask than you given that it pertains to an old timer and body composition.

Harold Johnson.

Been endeavouring to watch as much as possible. A fighter i simply haven't seen enough of.

First off. What a physique. Especially considering the era of boxing he was competing in. It's hard for me to imagine these old timers using weights. Is this simply the result of favourable genetics and a huge volume of bodyweight exercises? Or were there indeed fighters of the time who were a little more open minded and willing to implement some kind of weight routine? Harold's muscle was clearly functional as he had fluidity and is one of the most pleasing boxers to watch in terms of technical proficiency. Absolutely amazing technical fighter and it's a real shame how many casual fans today would be absolutely clueless if you mentioned his name. What's also infuriating is how many people have genuinely think that boxing has leapt forward like all sports and thus assume that old timers were relatively crude. Going back and rewatching footage of guys like Harold after spending so many weekends watching subpar boxing skills is always an eye opening experience.

Any insight appreciated. Cheers.

[Ron Lipton]

I sat next to Harold, and I mean right next to me Dec 14, 1964 in Philly with my Dad and my pal Bob Kedersha at the Giardello v Carter fight. He was still like a rock then and I saw his fights with Satterfield on film, Willie Pastrano on live TV, have all the photos of him with Joe Louis and other greats and heard all the stories.
I saw him fight in person and he was always an amazing and special athlete to me and a gentleman to boot.

I asked him about any weight training and he denied it to me, but it is hard for me to believe that. He was extremely powerful and muscular and what surprised me the most about him was his boxing poise, power and skill and such a young age with a build like that at 21. I mean what in the name of God was this man doing from age 15 to 21 to end up looking like Hercules unchained without lifting one weight?

Only Harold knows. His boxing skill in that ring is truly beyond belief to me at his young age, handling a guy like Satterfield like a baby.

[Ron Lipton]

PS I am assigned by the NYSAC to referee on the "Irish Invasion" on May 12, 2012 at the Mid Hudson Civic Center in Poughkeepsie. Randy Gordon and Gerry Cooney will be calling the fights live internet feed. I am proud to back with Randy once again.

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2012/05/...eaming-may-12/

[jlupi]

PS I am assigned by the NYSAC to referee on the "Irish Invasion" on May 12, 2012 at the Mid Hudson Civic Center in Poughkeepsie. Randy Gordon and Gerry Cooney will be calling the fights live internet feed. I am proud to back with Randy once again.

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2012/05/...eaming-may-12/

Maybe Ill go. when I saw it was "snooki's""Irish Invasion" it gave me pause

[Kyoodle]

I happened to be in the vicinity of the Jetport Holiday Inn in Newark around 10-12 years ago, when I saw a sign touting a sports memorabilia/autograph show. First guy I saw when I walked in was Harold Johnson.

He was using a cane to support himself and he moved kind of slow, but the guy was still RIPPED and had a handshake like a bear trap. He spoke to me for well over 15 minutes, and I arranged an interview with his business manager for a couple of weeks in the future. Unfortunately, his health took a precipitous dip soon after that meeting and the interview was never undertaken.

Great man, great fighter!

Kyoodle

[Ron Lipton]

Hi buddy,
I hope you show up.
Best,
Ron

[Ron Lipton]

I happened to be in the vicinity of the Jetport Holiday Inn in Newark around 10-12 years ago, when I saw a sign touting a sports memorabilia/autograph show. First guy I saw when I walked in was Harold Johnson.

He was using a cane to support himself and he moved kind of slow, but the guy was still RIPPED and had a handshake like a bear trap. He spoke to me for well over 15 minutes, and I arranged an interview with his business manager for a couple of weeks in the future. Unfortunately, his health took a precipitous dip soon after that meeting and the interview was never undertaken.



Great man, great fighter!

Kyoodle

R. He truly was one of the best and I will never forget the honor of being with him watching Rubin v Giardello live. He felt Carter won the fight after it was all over.

[PeterD]

Hi Ron,

I wanted to ask you if you knew Earnie Shavers.

I just watched his fight with Henry Clark from Paris and Shavers appeared to be exhausted after only 8 rounds.

What was the problem with Shavers? He seemed to have a load of power and his boxing was not that bad but his stamina seemed to be terrible.

Was it laziness in the training before a fight?

[Ron Lipton]

Hi Peter,

Any "Bricklayer" in boxing, a fighter who tries to knock your dick in the dirt as soon as possible with every other punch even if he takes a break to set it up with a jab or feint had better be in tip top shape aerobically. Ask Beau Jack, Melody Jackson, Smokin Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson, Hurricane Carter to name a few.

I saw Earnie at some of the bouts I refereed and I had a few brief exchanges with him and heard his fun loving good natured laugh. I had forgot I met him and then remembered. Getting old brother.

He was very high waisted, with heavy hands, strong thighs, barrel chested, and a heavy and effective long looping right hand, short chopping right hand, a lightning bolt right uppercut thrown like a Kevlar 2nd chance armor piercing Teflon bullet
straight up through the top of your skull.

His left hook was a la Bob Satterfied and his chin was not as weak as some said. He had heart and he came to kill in that ring despite his out of the ring good hearted Jack Dempsey treatment of all boxing fans.

I knew his manager Blackie Genaro as he was the head of the IBC when I did Morrison v Ruddock. His fight with Ron Lyle became a cardio battle and Lyle out lasted him. That silent film of that struggle is not lost on me, believe me. I would love to see that color version with sound to hear the sound of their shots.

It is rough in that ring and I felt that in the Quarry bout, if it went on a bit longer it would have been interesting if the round ended in time. Quarry was fearless and hurt Earnie to the body. Lyle was dropped by Shaver's left hook but got up and finally dropped Earnie face forward with punches that would have felled an Ox.

How Holmes ever got up from that over the top right hand is beyond belief is it not? Ellis had Earnie wobbled but good until lighting struck.

Earnie did seem to run out of gas now and then but only he can answer that. He did go the distance with some big strong guys including shaking an older and jaded Ali to the roots with the short right hand.

He was dangerous and you had to get him out of there, if you went in there for a cardio battle with him it was going into the Lion's den, but you know boxing, it is full of dangerous men who just love to rumble and punchers do not scare them.

I think if Earnie had a better conditioning coach with some more modern methods he could have done better especially with diet changes. The old school steak and eggs cholesterol death dishes do not fly anymore. Yet the old school warriors like him were fun to watch most of the time.

Too bad no one has the Jimmy Young KO on film. Maybe at times motivation and lack of intense training were to blame but in pro boxing no one wants to hear it, you have to be ready Freddy OR there are plenty of applications at Shop Rite.

best,
Ron

[PeterD]

Thank you Ron. Your stories are always great and appreciated.

[Ron Lipton]

Love talking boxing with you pal.

Be well,
Ron