Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

[Kid Achilles]

Ron,

I had no idea that you've refereed a John Carlo fight. John used to frequent a message board I spent a lot of time on as a kid, rec.sports.boxing, where he'd talk trash to and generally call out everyone who disagreed with him (though it was in a very over the top fun manner for the most part). At the time, being a naive 15 or 16 years old, I remember thinking that he was a serious threat to the heavyweight division. How would you rate him as a journeyman boxer?

[Ron Lipton]

John is a strong bodybuilder who I refereed in Vermont. I have not see enough of him in the ring to come to a final opinion of his overall abilities.

I like and respect him and the win of an older Leon Spinks is not enough to rate his full abilities as of now.

He is a mixed martial artist who stays in good shape. I did not see his last fight where he was stopped in one round. I would have to see the film.

I like and respect John who I believe is in his 40's now. He is one rough customer though who comes to fight.

best,
Ron

[StingerKarl]

I have some of those fights and remember them well, Ron.
Little Rudy Zavala was a terrific action fighter I remember as losing to only some of the best in the world during his time. He left us far too soon in a tragic car wreck.
What are your thoughts on Zavala?
I remember him taking quite a licking vs Patterson.
How was Blood Green the night you worked his fight?
Was he a sportsman, or did he blow his cool as he was known to do back in the day?
I have never met him, but did an interview over the phone with him once years ago, and surprisingly found him to be a very nice and polite interview subject.
Thanks;
Karl

[Ron Lipton]

Rudy Zavala gave a good account of himself that night and was a gentleman and a pro at all times.

Mitch "Blood" Green always had a big hello for me when he would run into me on occassion and never gave me any kind of problem. At the time he was trying to make a new start and keep it together for a ring comeback.

Like I always do, I made sure that I had a professional understanding with the fighters as to what I expect in the ring, and covered all possible scenarios imaginable in my pre fight in the dressing room instructions.

It was a rough fight with some accidental minor fouls which I warned the boys about and ended with his opponent unable to continue after being cleanly stopped. No problems of any kind thanks to the dressing room instructions done with a firm but respectful delivery.

best,
Ron

[Ron Lipton]

Who were the refs in the big bout, and the undercard?

[Ron Lipton]

Here are some more bouts updated on my referee record.
For some reason the bouts I refereed with Howard Davis Jr, Immammu Mayfield and Frankie Toledo are blocked from appearing.

There are others that are not listed and I am trying to find them on my film collection.

If anyone remembers some of these fights like Karl did, it would be fun to talkk about them.

best,
Ron

http://www.boxrec.com/official_searc...fficial_id=232

[Boxingnut]

Ron

The other day I came across some video tapes that I knew had boxing on them but I did not know what fights where on them. I started watching the tapes and the Pernell Whitaker - Gary Jacobs fight was on one tape. What are your recollections of this fight? Jacobs seemed to be very tired near the end, close to a stoppage perhaps?

Also did Mickey Duff, Jacobs' manager cause you any problems? He was always known to be kind of vociferous with referees, if given the chance.

Regards

Rob

[Ron Lipton]

Hi buddy,

Yes, I remember it all very well, just like yesterday.

Once way before this fight, I went to a dentist office in Rock Hill NY near my then home in Glenwild, where I lived in a rented trailer on a Beefalo farm on hundreds of acres of wild woods. It was beautiful.

I take my son with me and go into the office. There is sitting Lloyd Honeyghan and Mickey Duff, who I recognized immediately. Duff knew who I was by sight from years before and him and Lloyd and I talked boxing way after our appointments were over. I went outside with Lloyd and showed him some tricks I learned on puching power over the years and he and I had a good time. Duff was very polite to me and we all said goodbye.

Years go by and I get the Jacobs v Whitiker fight. I pick up the freaking paper (Freakin lazers on their heads) and I see the USA referee is being protested with threats to pull out of the fight because Duff does not want a US referee.

I read this for a bout a week until my rear end is chafing from the abuse, plus I cannot fathom why this guy is doing this to me as I had a good rep.

We go into the dressing room and there is the Duffster with Jacobs.
He sees me walk in with Hazzard and he turns white as Casper the Ghost.
He comes over to me and says, "God almighty are you Ron Lipton, I did not know it was you, I did not associate the name, I am so sorry Ron etc."

I tell him relax, and Gary Jacobs looks at me startled that Duff knew who I was but had protested me anyway. He has a big star of David on his trunks emblazzoned in Gold, I believe. I tell him, "What's a nice jewish boy like you doing in a place of ill repute like this."

They all crack up laughing and the tension was eased. The fight went on and of course, Whitiker climbed all over him. I gave him his chance to finish on his feet and he got up before 10 as the bell rang ending the 12th round.

If the bell had not rung and it continued, it would have been stopped.

Pete did the job on him, and the kid fought bravely back as best he could.

[Boxingnut]

Hi Ron

Thanks for the reply, great story. I like reading stuff about Mickey Duff, he is a real character.

In his book he recounts a story about Rubin Carter. When Carter came to London to fight Harry Scott, Duff actually met Carter off the plane on the tarmac (security was a lot less tight then and Duff was well known to the airport). Carter gave Duff one of his bags to carry through the airport check-in.

Later that day Duff gets a call from the hotel manager where Carter is staying asking him to go over. When Duff gets there it turns out that a gun has gone off in Carter's room, no-one is hurt but there is a bullet hole in one of the walls.

"Do you know what would have happened if they had caught you bringing a gun into this country?" asked Duff

"I didn't bring it in" replied Carter

"What do you mean?" said Duff

"I mean I didn't bring it in. You did. It was in the bag you carried through" said Carter.

Regards

Rob

[Kid Achilles]

Ron,

Just wondering if you caught the Eastman-Miranda fight on ESPN on Friday. I thought Miranda's skills and ability to cut off the ring looked like they needed some work early on but that right hand that drove Eastman into the ropes was dynamite, as well as the barrage of punches that followed. Also he was visibly hurt by Eastman a few times but then again that guy can hit. He blatantly hit Eastman low, which made me wonder about his composure and patience.

If you saw it, what did you think of the stoppage? I thought the ref did a good job as Eastman didn't seem like he had a way out of his situation (trapped against the ropes with a very strong opponent smashing his head around with hard shots).

I think Miranda, who's had as rough of a life as one can, has the rare package of fight ending power, killer instinct, and willpower to make it all the way to the top. It's up to him to continue to improve on the technical level.

[Ron Lipton]

Hi Kid,

thanks for asking my opinion.

I had no problem with the stoppage by Brian Garry, who I know and got along with over the years at various boxing conventions. He is the referee who had the wild scene on camera with Butch Lewis in the Vaughn The Turbin Bean v Holyfield fight way back.

As a fan I wish Brian would have stopped talking to them so much and interfering with the action, breaking them at the wrong times etc. I don't mean that to criticize him, only to remind him that it is not good to do that, and it is better to let them fight like I did with Sosa v Williams I. Just let them fight on the inside, outside, and stop talking so much to them. It pisses the fighters and fans off too much and breaks up the action unnecessarily.

It's a pro fight and the boys are getting paid to give it out and take it.

Anyway the victor did have a hard life from what they said, and both him and Eastman are in shape and ripped. They are serious competitors but I must tell you that neither one impresses me as a true force in the middleweight division compared to what I've seen in my life. Even if they take the title in this once great division, it is in such paltry shape these are all we have today. Just so sad. Many fight teachers are gone, just gone and we in boxing are losing everything to events like the UFC, where if you put gloves on the best of them, their hand techniques could not garner even condiseration from a guy like lets say, Teddy Brenner in the old MSG to even give them a 4 rounder if they begged him on their knees.

Trust me on this please.

Boxing is in such a sorry state now that only a hand full of fighters could generate any kind of gate to attract the non boxing fans, which Ali and Tyson used to bring in.

As to his power, I saw him, watched him closely, and he is not a real powerhouse by any standard despite his record. Films show it all.
Watch the left hook on film of Eduardo Lausse, Dick Tiger, Carter, Zale or the right hand of Hearns, Graziano, Robinson. The skills of a Benton, or even the early power of a Mugabi before he blew it all.

This kid is interesting, lets see what happens and wish him the best.

Eastman is now a stepping stone and does not have Championship magic.

I love the fights and keep watching, wishing and hoping for a new star all the time.

The Toney v Rachman fight on a pay per view soured me tremendously.
These pay per view pieces of shit, really turn me off.

[Roberto Aqui]

The Toney v Rachman fight on a pay per view soured me tremendously.
These pay per view pieces of shit, really turn me off.

Ron, the fight was on regular HBO. I think originally it was PPV, but they figured it was unsellable.

I was hoping you would weigh in on the hundred or so kidney punches Rahman landed on Toney in the clinches. Toney never complained, and never attempted to defend from them. Rahman never really blasted the kidneys like he could have, but seemed to use the punches to degrade Toney and try to lure him out of his shell. Now Goosen is complaining because Toney's kidney is all busted up.

[Ron Lipton]

Yes,

you are correct, sorry it was on HBO, but I have not seen the fight and wanted so much for someone to send me a tape of it, so I could watch what you are talking about. It is just upsetting to think that this is proferred as a top 10 fight in the heavyweight division. That is basically what I am saying.

I heard about those kidney punches and that is a baaad thing to allow even once.

I was just so soured on Toney's physical condition which I did see clips of at the weigh in etc. It is beyond acceptable to be paid that much and eat like a hog.

If I could get a copy of the tape, I will scrutinize every moment of the fight which I enjoy doing.

It is incredible to me to be able to go 12 rounds with such a strong guy as Rachman, Toney's lifetime of skill and tough mental attitude have served him well in survival. As written on the zone so well, he was just never the same after Roy Jones Jr defused his ego.

Like Larry Merchant said to Tim Witherspoon once, "It's not a question of being comfortable at your weight, you are not going to the beach to be comfortable, this is a fight and you owe it to the fans to be in shape."

[Kid Achilles]

Toney backpedaling awkwardly and off balance and trying in vain not to go down with Roy Jones in hot persuit is one of my favorite images involving James.

I really do dislike that guy. It makes me wish I had stuck with boxing as a teen and could maybe (a big maybe) one day fight him, just for an opportunity to smash him in the face legally. His physique, his voice, the way he talks down to his opponents (he once boasted in an interview how he taunted Evander Holyfield during their fight, yelling 'hit me, bitch!' It's one thing to say that in a fight but to bring it up in an interview is just embarassing to Holyfield) and people who work in the media.

I do not like James Toney. I respect his skill and durability but nothing will make me happier than to see him defeated and be forced to eat his words.

[Roberto Aqui]

I do not like James Toney. I respect his skill and durability but nothing will make me happier than to see him defeated and be forced to eat his words.

He's definitely full of gas. Rahman hit him and he waddled backwards to keep from going down and landed on the ropes where he stuck.

Any good lighter fighter should be able to bedevil him and pick up a decision, like Joe Calzaghe who called him out. Every now and again a fighter comes along that makes me want to get in the ring against. Toney is one of those guys. I've suspended belief long enough. The guy is probably shot and with his body type, I don't see a long life either.

[theironbar]

Hi Ron -- if you ever would like a recent fight on tape, please let me know... the one thing Canada's TSN is good for is replays! Your contributions to this site and kind words to your fellow members (including myself) is a testament to a real generosity and true gentlemanly spirit...

One of our site colleagues (who I won't name so as not to embarrass him) was kind enough to send me tapes of Danny Lopez and Jose Napoles (man I loved those tapes!!!!) and I've been racking my brain how to do right by him... well, let's steal a cheesy movie's theme and "Pay it Forward" -- I see the Toney-Rahman fight is playing again here on April Fool's Day -- no irony there -- let me get you a copy if you're still interested. You can find my e-mail and other details on my profile -- please drop me a line.

-Peter

[Ron Lipton]

Hi Peter,

thank you very much, I tried to e-mail you but it says you can't get e-mails.
Mine is blkleopard21@aol.com

[KOJOE90]

I tell him relax, and Gary Jacobs looks at me startled that Duff knew who I was but had protested me anyway. He has a big star of David on his trunks emblazzoned in Gold, I believe. I tell him, "What's a nice jewish boy like you doing in a place of ill repute like this."

Hello Mr Lipton

Sorry my first post on your thread is such a negative one but are you aware of Jacobs recent problems? I have heard nothing about him for about 18 months so I hope he has sorted his life out, but the last I heard he was arrested for driving a stolen car in his hometown of Glasgow, just weeks after being banned from driving for drink driving (or maybe is was refusing to give a breath test?)

He was also living on income support (welfare).

After he retired from Boxing he opened a gym, but I understand it didn't work out for him, a great shame he was a very good Welterweight, not as good as Lloyd Honeyghan, but still a quality fighter.

Anyone here see Jacobs KO lose to Mickey Hughes in 1990? It was a brutal KO, the type that ruin some fighters.

[Ron Lipton]

Very sorry to hear of Gary Jacobs' misfortunes.

If anyone sees him please give him my best wishes.

There has to be a life after boxing, and one must prepare for it.

My old trainer once told me, that any pro who gets a good payday, should buy a little house, pay it off and always have a place to live. Get a job, stay with it and the rest is gravy.

best,

Ron

[Cdogg from Fightbeat]

Hi Ron,
This may have already been discussed, but what are your thoughts on Mills Lane as a referee? I've always thought he was one of the greats, but I've also heard some contradictory opinions of him as well. Thanks.

By the way, has anybody heard how he's doing since his stroke from a few years ago?

[Ron Lipton]

I was lucky enough to receive a nice compliment from Mills while I was in Vegas in the mid 90's at a boxing convention in Reno. He came to my table where the Commissioner was sitting, and he said, "This guy is one of the best, he was a fighter and he always is in the best shape." I thanked him and we talked awhile about the fighters from the 60's.

I was an Investigator in the Hudson County NJ Prosecutor's Office from 1971-76 and a police officer before and after that, and Mills was a Judge, so we talked a bit about the law differences where we worked.

Mainly we talked about the old champs like Carlos Ortiz, Griffith, Tiger, Carter and the like. He opened up the convention by walking up on the stage in front of a packed convention hall. He climbs up the stairs, and you know Mills was a lawyer, so he ambles up to the microphone and everyone is waiting for him to say something like, "Hello everyone, I'm Mills Lane, welcome to Reno etc."

Not him.

These were his words, LOUD AND BOOMING in that voice of his, with no segue whatsoever, no lead in just this. "A LAWYER WAS STANDING IN A BUCKET OF SHIT, AND HE STARTED SCREAMING FOR HELP, "I'M MELTING, I'M MELTING."

Well he brings the whole house down laughing. He could take a joke at his own expense and he took no shit from anyone. He was a tough little lightweight fighter too in the amateurs.

I pray he is ok, it is a horrible thing he went through.


As far as him refereeing, they did use him a lot in Vegas, he was somewhat of an icon out there and well liked and loved, and was given the big fights to do.

I do some things a bit differently than Mills, but that is what refereeing is all about, different styles.

I pray he gets better.

best,
Ron

[KOJOE90]

Mr Lipton

I'm a big fan of Jimmy Young whom I consider one of the most skilled Heavyweights of the modern era. However due to the fact that during his peak years I was a very small child so my knowledge of him has been gained over the years from what I have read in books and the internet etc. I have a few of his fights on tape and DVD but they are hard to get hold of here in the UK.

So I was wondering did you ever see him fight or spar in the flesh? If so what are your opinions?

I've always believed that 'IF' Jimmy had stayed clean and in shape and given the chance he could have picked up a title in the late 70's or early 80's against the likes of Tate, Weaver, Coatzee etc etc.

I also believe he could have given Larry Holmes a VERY tricky nights work. Do you agree?

Thanks

KoJoe

[Ron Lipton]

Hi buddy,

JImmy started out his career of 34-19-1 with 11 ko's with a bunch of losses to class C fighters. However like everyone from Jack Dempsey to Dick Tiger, he started to get better by improving with dedication, fighting more, eating better and taking it seriously.

His wins over the big bombers like Ron Lyle twice, and George Foreman, including getting up and later being credited with a knockdown over an exhausted Big George is not to be taken lightly.

A real enigma to me is the actual outcome of his first fight with Earnie Shavers which some people ended in a Ko in the first round and some say it happened in the third. I would love to see a writeup on that fight to find out how it actually ended.

That being said, Jimmy had the guts to fight him again and got a Draw.

His fight with Ali I saw up close and he did very well except for the ducking through the ropes thing which soured the judges. Jimmy had great skill but was short on power. His fight with Ken Norton was something too.

Just a tragic spiral down from the top 10 after that, which is a loss to all of his fans with no plan B after boxing.

He is lucky to have such a loyal fan as you and Jimmy was a nice man, and I had some pleasant moments with him. He seemed to have too gentle a heart for boxing.

The night he fought Ali in Maryland, April 30, 76 I believe, was the night Hurricane Carter was acused of beating up his campaign manager in a motel, a woman named Carolyn Kelly who I knew well. Very weird night for all.
It landed right in every newspaper too.

Best,

Ron

[pendleton23]

Hello Mr.Lipton.I don't know if this was already asked but in your opinion who was the hardest training boxer you ever worked with or saw?

And did Rubin Carter ever lift any weights at all?And if he didn't what were his main exercises for developing strength?

[Cdogg from Fightbeat]

Mr. Lipton, if you don't mind I was wondering if I could get your feedback from this fight.

Fightbeat.com has officially entered the promotion business, and last night was their first card in Nashville, TN. The main event was Bobby Gunn vs. Shelby Gross. During the fight, the referee bodyslammed one of the fighters. I was wondering if you would care to comment on the referee's performance, and the fight itself.

It can be seen here: www.fightbeat.com

[Roberto Aqui]

Well, the ref really has a sloooow count. Must be a southern accent. Good body slam though. Probably the fighter should've been DQed instead.

[Ron Lipton]

thanks for writing gentleman,

Carter never lifted weights but did a series of Jack LaLane type workouts that would boggle the mind as evidenced by his physique obtained through heridity and hard work.

He would do sets of feet elevated pushups while holding a fighter's ring stool so that the movement emulated pushup bars with his chest sinking between the bars as opposed to the floor stopping one's chest in a normal pushup.

I would work with him matching him rep for rep in sets of 100 pushups, supersetted with 100 crunches and other ab work. See our photos posted by Juan Ayllon on this thread. He did weighted neck exercises with a headstrap and there are photos of this that exist with a weighted sand bucket as opposed to weight plates.

Most of his training which fashioned his body was done in Trenton Prison in his first stretch for assault and robbery, where he worked out like a demon for 4 1/2 yrs running 16, yes 16 miles a day and doing pushups and boxing all during that time.

His boxed quite a bit in camp, but did not hit the heavy bag for too long nor the speed bag for too long. His periodic bouts with Vodka ruined it all after awhile, but he was always ripped from running, and man he could run, and he was never interested in food, NEVER, absolutely NEVER, which now with hindsight seems to coincide with the alocohol abuse and smoking during training. He always was a smoker like Giardello did during training.

He was an amazing specimen of a middleweight and built the foundation earlier, maintained it to a degree and then it went on him, the reflexes, the desire and his record shows it with lax dedication due to outside the ring problems. At his zenith despite people not liking him, he was a force and a half though.

Dick Tiger, Emile Griffith, Joe Frazier all trained the hardest to me. Especially Tiger and Griffith. Tiger lived very clean as did Marciano and it paid off.
Tiger did not eat starches when training and his ripped to the tits build was just amazing. Emile was a great runner and never dogged training either.
Hagler trained hard too and watched what he ate between fights.

I really believe I trained harder than all of them based on how I look today at my age and back then. When they were sleeping I was doing chin ups, dips, and death to the ounce of fat that would dare to appear anywhere on me.
I was one sick puppy with one focus only. Should have turned pro.

The true test is how they all look between fights. If they get fat and sloppy they are shortening their fistic longevity. Too much of a strain to get it down. The magic will not last long that way. Total dedication or nothing!


As to this fight, with a referee slamming a fighter down, damn I have got to see this shit and quick. I went to the website and cannot get it to download.

Somebody PLEASE send me this one.

[Cdogg from Fightbeat]

Have you tried just clicking on it? It's supposed to automatically open. If you try to right-click & download, it won't work.

If you have Windows Media Player, it should just automatically open and start playing.

[Ron Lipton]

Where on their page is the link to the actual fight clip.

I see the article at the top, but my computer for some reason cannot access a fight clip by clicking on the article, or where it says read more.

thanks,

Ron

[daddymofo]

Hi Ron,
Did you watch the Brewster-Lyakhovich fight? Im curious as to your thoughts regarding the corners of each fighter. It seemed to me that Lyakhovich's corner did a terrific job, being better prepared and Weldon seemed to have a real good grip on his fighter, all the while I heard very little from Buddy McGirt that seemed usefull while his man was losing rounds. The last couple of fights Ive seen w/ McGirt in the corner, it seems like he's almost mailing it in. Granted, there just was nothing to be done for Gatti as he was like a waterpistol to Mayweathers flamethrower, but Im interested to hear your opinion of this case. Thanks!

daddy