Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

[Ron Lipton]

I cannot seem to access the last post by "Guiman."

[Kid Achilles]

Ron, here's a quick question: of all the fighters you've seen with your eyes or sparred with, who was the most heavy handed with that Foreman clubbing kind of power? I don't neccesarily mean the most explosive fighter who punched with their bodyweight like a Dempsey or Louis but a guy who could hurt you with punches with only the shoulder and tricep behind them because he just had that natural Samson like strength.

One more: who hit the heavybag the hardest of anyone you've watched?

[Kid Achilles]

"Hi Ron,

It is always a pleasure reading your posts. I have been transfering my fight tapes to dvd and am enjoying the opportunity to watch fights I hadn't seen for a wihle. I had forgotten about what a good fight Morrison-Ruddock was. How on earth did Ruddock get up after that right hand? In the tape his legs were quivering on the canvas yet he manages to beat the count. Was he able to recover that quickly or was he just moving on instinct?

Great refereeing, they kept you busy."

Ron I noticed a few days ago that Guiman was the last person to respond to this thread but when I clicked on the thread, your response to the jumprope question was the last one showing. After making that most recent post, the Guiman post suddenly appeared for me so I copied and pasted it above in case you still can't see it.

[Kid Achilles]

"Ron,

Can you elaborate on what I bolded in your post (edit: he bolded this phrase: Guard that lower back and don't neglect the lower abs with knee-ins etc)? I'll be 64 in a few months, and I walk about 3 or 4 miles daily, pushing a hefty grandson in his stroller.
I'm 5'9" and weigh about 175. Admittedly, I'm a sporadic exerciser.

p.s. I'm still rooting for your reinstatement."

Here's another post that was invisible for awhile for some reason and just became visible to me when I posted here. I'm copying and pasting it so you can hopefully see it, assuming that you couldn't before.

Edit: the post is by newpoppop.

[Ron Lipton]

Kid Achilles and Newpopp,

thank you very much for writing and your kind supportive comments.


The most vicious punchers I ever saw that made my jaw drop in the gym the way you want it were an old Tony Galento at the Ringside Gym in Orange NJ, while he was suffering from Diabetes, his left hook on the bag made me feel it would crush my skull like a broken egg, Sonny Liston in Philly while I watched him work out several feet away, Charlie "Devil" Green at the Solar gym in NYC, Frankie DePaula and Rubin Carter at Ehsans in Chatam NJ, Dick Tiger in the basement of the Old Garden, Lee Carr in NYC, and one day I saw Mel Turnbow hit the bag in Deer Lake like an 18 wheeler slamming home.

I think Frankie DePaula and our own Rocky Alkazoff hit like a ton of bricks.

[Rafael]

Ron, I was wondering if you ever saw Gypsy Joe Harris fight live, or if you perhaps talked to people that saw him fight. Anything you could share with us about Gypsy Joe -for whom there is no video publicly available- would be great.

P.S. Maybe Russell Peltz will soften up and share some of that rare Gypsy Joe footage with the rest of the world....

[mtg1977]

Whats up Ron? Stopped by to see my parents and thought I would jump on this jukebox. Sorry we've been playing phone tag. My cell phone has been messing up, but I should have a new one in a few days. Hope the boxing class is going well and that you, Brett, and your girlfriend are doing fine. I was going to fight on Nov.1, but decided against it. Been busy working and due to each others schedules was having a lot of trouble getting sparring lined up. The next go around should be Dec. 16 in Lagrange, Mo. with Craig and Damon. We haven't talked about the opponent yet,but we've kicked around a few names. If it ends up being a tough fight maybe I could get you over here for it. I have about 4-6weeks left in the work season so maybe we can hook up for sure in the next 2-3 months ,and then you can talk to Tim L. in person. I'm still 230lbs but will be 215-218lbs for Dec.16 Take care bro, I'll call you soon.
Matt Greer

[Ron Lipton]

Ron, I was wondering if you ever saw Gypsy Joe Harris fight live, or if you perhaps talked to people that saw him fight. Anything you could share with us about Gypsy Joe -for whom there is no video publicly available- would be great.

P.S. Maybe Russell Peltz will soften up and share some of that rare Gypsy Joe footage with the rest of the world....

Answer: Hi Professor,
Yes I did see him fight in person against Emile Griffith, Curtis Cokes, Bobby Cassidy, Ted Wright, Jose Stable and Stan Kitten Hayward.
He was only 5'5" and was like a bundle of energy and confidence like Aaron Pryor. A short fighter who made it work, just unbelievable actually.

A sparring partner of Joe Frazier called Dr.Love, told me a story about Gypsy Joe that blew my mind. When Joe fell on hard times after boxing and I do mean on hard times, The Doc told me that he dressed up like a woman, actually in a dress and wig and would sneak up on guys and lay them out to mug them. This story was from a hardcore Philly guy so I believed him.
Talk about the old Earnie Shavers in a negligee joke, damn!




Rafael
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10-23-2006, 11:00 PM #519
mtg1977
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Join Date: May 2006 Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A String

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whats up Ron? Stopped by to see my parents and thought I would jump on this jukebox. Sorry we've been playing phone tag. My cell phone has been messing up, but I should have a new one in a few days. Hope the boxing class is going well and that you, Brett, and your girlfriend are doing fine. I was going to fight on Nov.1, but decided against it. Been busy working and due to each others schedules was having a lot of trouble getting sparring lined up. The next go around should be Dec. 16 in Lagrange, Mo. with Craig and Damon. We haven't talked about the opponent yet,but we've kicked around a few names. If it ends up being a tough fight maybe I could get you over here for it. I have about 4-6weeks left in the work season so maybe we can hook up for sure in the next 2-3 months ,and then you can talk to Tim L. in person. I'm still 230lbs but will be 215-218lbs for Dec.16 Take care bro, I'll call you soon.
Matt Greer
Answer:
I would love to train you Matt and be in your corner for a tough bout.
I would concentrate on handspeed, conditioning and explosive power and endurance to keep it going.

You are one tough man Matt, a real pro campaigner who will fight anyone anytime. You need a break because you have the determination and guts.
That big overhand right you have is no joke and has laid out some big men for a long nap.

I think if you can get down to that 218 you will be beautiful and dangerous, AND stay there.

Sorry I could not reach you back yet but I will. To go six hard rounds with Mario Preskar was amazing to me, when you did not even have a chance to train or get good sparring in. Everyone was impressed with you.
Matt comes to fight!

If ever I wanted to see a fighter do well it is you. My prayers are with you always champ.

Ron

[rocky111]

Ronnie
I oughta hit kinda hard with Tony Zale and Hatchetman Sheppard teaching me! All kidding aside Ronnie you shoulda seen Tony Zale at fifty nail the bag with that left hook low. He brought it up just a little to get the upper rib. My God what leverage and leg thrust! Hatchetman Sheppard in his seventies with his sweeping hook right or left. Jesus, what he must have hit like in his prime with those big hands that weighed about 5 lbs each. I also saw Liston in his prime hit the bag. Big big left hook! Great topic by the way.
You would be a expert Ronnie. lb for lb, who the hell hits much heavier than you? Id like to see it!

[mtg1977]

Hi Ron,
Mario Preskar's manager is sending me a DVD of the fight from croation TV. I will send you a copy when I get it.
Matt Greer

[Ron Lipton]

I envy you Rock being with those two guys.

I know you picked up from them what I picked up from Carter and Tiger.
Your DVD is on the way brother.
____________________________________


Matt,

Once I see that video, we will both know what to do.
Not many men could do what you did that night hanging in there on short notice, with a guy Don King has been grooming for big things.

Tremendous pride and courage Matt. The toughest guys in combat are the ones with integrity and you have that in Spades.

[Rafael]

Hi Ron,
Mario Preskar's manager is sending me a DVD of the fight from croation TV. I will send you a copy when I get it.
Matt Greer

Matt, I have a copy of the DKP promotions version (with Bob Sheridan at the mike). I can send you a copy if you want. I believe I also have the Mbongo and Cadieux fights.

[mtg1977]

Rafael,

Fantastic, I will take all 3. I've been trying to get those videos from GYM promotions for a while now. I will send you some money. Please email me the prices at slgreer@covad.net[/email]
Are you a rare film collector? Thanks a bunch.
Matt Greer

[Rafael]

Matt, check your inbox. I will be glad to send you those at no charge.

[JaKob]

Ron Did you ever meet Ali? see him training/sparring? Ignoring the general concensus of him being the 'greatest' what are your own personal views on the man as a boxer? How do you rate him? I've follow your posts closely and recognise that you have a wealth of knowledge/experience and thus i would appreciate and value your opinion greatly.

Thanks.

[Ron Lipton]

Hi Jakob,

I knew Ali as a close friend soon after he fought Sonny Banks in NY.
I was his sparring partner and lived with him in Deer Lake Pennsylvania when I was a 165-170lb fighter. I was with him in camp boxing with him in Sept 77 helping him get ready for Shavers in the Garden.


When Rubin Carter fought Ellis in 1965 we became even closer and he testified for me when I had to fight 30 guys on my front lawn who drove a truck onto my property and into my house in Sussex NJ, after some of their friends burned a cross on my front lawn.

Here are some of the articles from back then:
http://www.geocities.com/rubinhurric...ton/index.html

Look for the one "Ali Testifies For Old Sparring Partner"

Anyway we ended up doing many things together and traveling all over the country together and staying in many hotels and I just about have done everything with him.

I knew him waaaay back when and a lot of people who wrote books about him and have a realtionship $$$ with him today, know nothing of those old days when they were not around at all.

Anyway, he was strong as a horse, feared nothing, had 100% confidence and pre-exhausted himself before sparring, and built up tremendous stamina by running hard. One thing he did not practice was abstinence which was a mistake in my book and robbed him of strength.

I could tell a few stories here but it would start some shit I'd rather avoid.
He was really a big kid with a heart of gold.

best,
Ron

[JaKob]

Thanks for that ron, i love hearing information from the guys that knew him instead of the same generic stuff we get in books. You sparred with him, obviously ive seen his handspeed on film but what was it like in the ring? Comparable to some of the fighters at lower weights you sparred with?

[kenmore]

Hi Jakob,

I knew Ali as a close friend soon after he fought Sonny Banks in NY.
I was his sparring partner and lived with him in Deer Lake Pennsylvania when I was a 165-170lb fighter. I was with him in camp boxing with him in Sept 77 helping him get ready for Shavers in the Garden.

Ron,

In Sept. '77, a few weeks before the Ali-Shavers fight at MSG, the newspapers reported rumors to the effect that in training camp, Ali had been kayoed or TKO'd in sparring with Jimmy Ellis. Supposedly Ellis's sneak right hand did the trick.

You must have been there...is there any truth to the rumor?

Thanks.

[Ron Lipton]

I saw Jimmy Ellis drop the Champ twice. Once on two different occasions but not for anything close to a 10 count. I saw Mel Turnbow hurt Ali also, but then paid for it with Ali forcing him to one knee with multiple vicious jabs to pay it back.

That was something to see.
_________________________________
Tyson was dropped in his prime by Greg Page and others too.

Sugar Ray Robinson dropped by Jose Torres in sparring.
Floyd Patterson dropped by Jose Torres, and Mel Turnbow in sparring.
Rubin Carter dropped and K0'd by Joe Louis Adair twice in the same round
(Carter had been drinking though)
Joe Louis dropped by Walcott in sparring and in two fights.

[Elmer Ray]

Hi ron,


could you tell me your live experiences with rocky marciano??? thanx

[Ron Lipton]

I had the honor to meet him while I was with Ali.

I wish I could have explained it during the filming of the Superfight DVD that Mike did, which I enjoyed very much. It did not work out that way. I really enjoyed seeing the DVD and hearing the other guys on it especially Bucket.

I talked with Murray Woroner's son about those days and he is a very nice person who enjoyed talking with me too.

Rocky was very nice to me and we mostly spoke about Willie Pep and me being amazed at how far Rocky's hard running regimen was, and how hard his diet was for him back when he was training, as he loved to eat and just could not allow himself to do it.

He was a real gentlemen and easy to talk with, very respectful.
The vibe was all power and grit underneath the friendly exterior, I could feel the competitive power in him by being near him and having seen all his fights.

It was a feeling of awe like when I met Louis, Dempsey, Braddock. Walcott,
Ross, Graziano and all the rest.

He loved Pep and I put it into my speech for the Rocky Marciano foundation for children when I honored Willie Pep in my speech while Pep was in the audience. I have it on film.

[Ron Lipton]

I had the honor to meet him while I was with Ali.

I wish I could have explained it during the filming of the Superfight DVD that Mike did, which I enjoyed very much. It did not work out that way. I really enjoyed seeing the DVD and hearing the other guys on it especially Bucket.

I talked with Murray Woroner's son about those days and he is a very nice person who enjoyed talking with me too.

Rocky was very nice to me and we mostly spoke about Willie Pep and me being amazed at how far Rocky's hard running regimen was, and how hard his diet was for him back when he was training, as he loved to eat and just could not allow himself to do it.

He was a real gentlemen and easy to talk with, very respectful.
The vibe was all power and grit underneath the friendly exterior, I could feel the competitive power in him by being near him and having seen all his fights.

It was a feeling of awe like when I met Louis, Dempsey, Braddock. Walcott,
Ross, Graziano and all the rest.

He loved Pep and I put it into my speech for the Rocky Marciano foundation for children when I honored Willie Pep in my speech while Pep was in the audience. I have it on film.

[Roberto Aqui]

Thanks for that ron, i love hearing information from the guys that knew him instead of the same generic stuff we get in books. You sparred with him, obviously ive seen his handspeed on film but what was it like in the ring? Comparable to some of the fighters at lower weights you sparred with?

If you go back a ways into this thread, you'll find some shots of Ali and Ron in their primes, home photos though. He talks of sparring sessions with Ali and other things. Amazing and humbling stuff for afficianados.

[Ron Lipton]

Ali never turned up the handspeed on me, but I did on him which he liked.
It was like sparring with your big brother who loved you, let you open up and would never hurt you. I saw him turn up the handspeed with Ellis, Turnbow and Dokes though when they temporarily got the better of him. Ali was great!

Carter had the fastest hands in strikes of 1-3 shots, and I had problems with it in the beginning when I underestimated him. My hands and leg movement were much faster and that is how I am alive to tell the tale today.
Never ran from him, but stayed ahead and made him reach and turned him all the time. Never left a jab out there either for a deadly counter.
Emile Griffith had the fastest body moves, feints, slips, so did Holly Mims as far as manuering himself in tricky ways. Carter had very fast hands early in his career, and he would change the speed of his shots lullling you into a false sense of security and then pull the string.

When he was in shape he was awesome. Then drinking and smoking just left the muslces and not the same reflexes.

I had probems with Carlos Ortiz's left hook to my right side. His timing was uncanny but the handspeed was not overwhelming. I had faster hands.
I had gotten a job through Cain Young, sparring with Laguna during that time in NY. His hand speed was up there but Ortiz was much stronger in all ways.
I hit him a right hand that got to him so badly they ended my stay in one day.

Then Teddy Bentham brought me back with Carlos and Willie Munoz his cousin when they heard I did well with Ishmael. At 135lbs I felt Carlos was one of the top 10 of all time.

Some of the more famous amateurs I fought had the fastest hands in my memory. It is strange how some fighters have one great assest above all others.

[10-8]

Anyway, he was strong as a horse, feared nothing, had 100% confidence and pre-exhausted himself before sparring, and built up tremendous stamina by running hard. One thing he did not practice was abstinence which was a mistake in my book and robbed him of strength.

Ron,

I'm aware of how Ali used to spar last when he was tired and his sparring partners were fresh. I'm curious to your views regarding this practice. I would think this way of training would invariably lead to sloppy and lazy ring habits in a fighter, as technique will invariably suffer when fatigue has already set in.

Also in your time with Ali were you aware of any specific physical or medical warning signs or problems he may have had which can be related to his condition today. Thanx.

[Ron Lipton]

Ron,

I'm aware of how Ali used to spar last when he was tired and his sparring partners were fresh. I'm curious to your views regarding this practice. I would think this way of training would invariably lead to sloppy and lazy ring habits in a fighter, as technique will invariably suffer when fatigue has already set in.

Answer: For him it worked as he was not a big puncher who would come right after you to blast you out and shoot his loud taking chances right away like a Liston, Carter, Shavers etc. He needed to sharpen his assests which were stamina and retaliating when the opponent had gassed out. In the later stages of his career he had to depend on this and it cost him big time by taking too many punches to head and body.

It is like a comparison between John Wayne who was not a great actor but a Movie Star and a presence on the screen compared to the talent of Sir Lawrence Oliver or a John Hurt from "I Claudius."

Ali never practiced orthodox boxing techniques, like lets work on feints, slips,
specific attacks and counters. He was a mover, big, strong and quick. He pumped that jab out while dancing and shot hooks and right hands off of it.
When the reflexes went, the extra weight became a problem and he could not dance like Cassius Clay anymore, he had to outgut you, tire you out from punching him, and give you what he had in the reserve tank.

In camp he had to come in there from traveling all over, eating pie, cakes, steaks, mild, bread, butter, dairy, work off the belly, rubber sweat suits,
and relly on his powerful mind that would not accept defeat.

He believed in just running, boxing, bag work, situps and his strong foundation. Bad mistake. He was a winner on guts, courage, endurance.

He should have upped the modern training methods including diet and exercise but no one could tell him anything that would make him try it.

If he had a Tim Hallmark, Mackey Shilstone, or listened to a Ron Lipton back then, we could have made him stronger and quicker reversing father time a bit.

People around him would not allow it. Yes, I saw the deterioration, the fatigue and father time whittling away at him back then.

Marvin Hagler always stayed in shape between fights. Sadlly even Marv is kind of plump these days with a belly. The best builds Carter, Griffith, Hagler etc in boxing have all gone soft. I am proud of myself as I am their age and older and still am in fighting shape. Very hard work, but my methods proved right.

Also in your time with Ali were you aware of any specific physical or medical warning signs or problems he may have had which can be related to his condition today. Thanx.

Answer: His speech became slurred, his attention span would drift, he walked slower and in Jan 1982 when he came to Newton NJ to testify for me in a self defense case, me V 30 men on my front lawn, I found it hard to believe that anyone let him in the ring V Trevor Berbick the month before.

He was in very, very bad shape then.

[Ron Lipton]

Sorry for the spelling errors.

I meant to write "Milk, rely, load."

[10-8]

Thanks Ron, for the detailed response. It's much appreciated.

[Overhand_Right]

Mr Lipton, i see you refereed the fight between Roy Jones and Bryant Brannon in 1996. Whats your take on the much debated figure of controversy/heated debate that is RJJ, being that you have seen him in action up close & personal..?

[Ron Lipton]

I see a post listed on the main page by Overhand Right, but I cannot read it here.

Would you like to post it again?

best,

Ron