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Thread: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

  1. #31
    Juan C Ayllon
    Guest

    Emile Griffith and Sid Martin

    <img border=0 src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/JuanCAyllon/EmileSidMartin.jpg" />
    Sid Martin (rear) and Emile Griffith

    Here is a beautiful photo of beloved trainer, Sid Martin, and boxing all-time great, Emile Griffith.

    Clearly, these two were cherished friends of Ron's.

    Enjoy!

    Regards,



    Juan C. Ayllon

  2. #32
    Ronald Lipton
    Guest

    reply

    "Goofy Pimple???", uh ok.

    Hi,

    Nah, that's just old venerable Sid Martin, the father figure great cornerman of Emile Griffith, who was a Luis Sarria, Jack Blackburn and Charley Goldman rolled into one.

    He was never given the credit he deserved for Emile's success. Clancy a great boxing man, only started out teaching physical education in the lower grades in NYC.

    The other guy in the corner Howie Albert was a hat designer who knew nothing about boxing but sent Griffith to Clancy who did a great job with Emile who was a star pupil.

    Sid Martin did everything they asked him but never got the credit because behind the scenes he was the real boxing expert and worked the corners of so many great fighters in NY. He was also in my corner for many of my fights and I felt honored to have him.

    I showed up one night in St Augustine's Church in Greenich Village for a Tournament of Champions kind of night where the NY champs fought the NJ champs and finalists etc. They sold it out and my conrerman from NJ never showed up, which happened to me in Newark also in a tv fight.

    Well Sid worked my corner as he knew me from the gym with Emile. He had a voice deeper than Barry White and he would get right to the point with succint advise which was worth diamonds to me.

    I fought a guy named Felix Ortega who was built and looked like Tony Tiger Martinez. Sid, whispered a whole bunch of advice in my ear which I was trying to adhere to in my brain as he rubbed my shoulders before they called us to the center of the ring as he had seen this guy fight many times before.

    The bell rang and Ortega rushed out of his corner to pin me in mine like Honeyghan did to that guy in England.
    He ran into one of my hardest ever short right hands which landed exactly on his breast bone and another right hand left hook to the head. It was over in 6 seconds, plus the count. (See article on my other web site Untold Story)

    Sid, put my robe on and when the commotion died down and we were alone, he had not spoken one word. I was waiting for some kind of compliment. All he said was,
    "You took a chance, you stayed still, had your head up too high, and didn't move like I told you, you were lucky tonight and you have to shorten up that hook, you understand son?"

    I simply said, "Yes sir," I'll see you Monday in the gym.

    He was the greatest and a man of great dignity.

  3. #33
    Kid Achilles
    Guest

    Re: reply

    Giffith looks a lot bigger and stronger than I thought he would. Huge shoulders. Maybe it's because of the relatively low knockout ratio, but I always expected him to be a smaller more modestly built guy.

  4. #34
    jyoungfan2
    Guest

    Re: reply

    emille was sculpted out of marble.

  5. #35
    Ronald Lipton
    Guest

    reply

    Kid and Jyoung,

    he was indeed sculptured out of marble.

    In the wonderful book by Adeyinka Makinde Dick Tiger, The Life and Times of a Boxing Immortal, there are anecdotes about just that. Must reading!

    Emile was so strong with so little body fat. Men like that are very strong but succeptable to various injuries if not warmed up properly. It would be analagous to bodybuilders on stage in the Mr. Olympia absolutelyl freezing in normal temperatures there is so little intercelluar body fat, subcataneous fat.

    That is why a Luis Sarria, and Sid Martin are so valuable to massage a really developed fighter into a state of supple readiness to tap into deep fiber and attack in that ring without strain.

  6. #36
    jyoungfan2
    Guest

    griffith

    ron,
    do you know how emile stayed so well in shape? I know it was diet and excercise, but do you have any specifics? did he use a lot of weight training? I would say emile and harold johnson come to mind when I think of best sculpted bodies of boxers thru the years.

  7. #37
    Ronald Lipton
    Guest

    Re: griffith

    Hey buddy,

    I can assure you Emile never lifted a weight in his life.

    I have 3 video tapes of an interview I did with him, that I feel surpasses any other done at that time, 1991. It was my idea to do it and man did I ask him some questions on that 3 hour session.

    He told me he used to run all the time in the Virgin Islands on the beach much like Ali told me he used to run everywhere rather than ride. Both men had great legs.

    Griff had great heridity potential and just played a lot of sports. I played him many sets of tennis and at one time I was pretty good, two very fast first serves always in. He was extremely good, blazing athlete, but no weights.

    He boxed and trained more than anyone in that gym.

    Carter trained the most non stop I have ever seen though.
    An animal of power and strength and Jack LaLane type feats.
    16 mile Runs, 1000 pushups, 1000 situps, endless sparring.

    Griffith loved to exercise and was a workhorse in the gym.

  8. #38
    jyoungfan2
    Guest

    Re: griffith

    thank you ron

  9. #39
    StingerKarl
    Guest

    Thanks

    Thanks for that, Mr. Baltazar.
    I agree with you that there is a big difference between the amateurs and pros, sir.
    There is also a big difference between someone having 17 amateur fights as opposed to someone having 98 amateur fights.
    Karl

  10. #40
    Juan C Ayllon
    Guest

    An Article You Guys Might Be Able to Relate To...

    Hey Guys,

    Here's an article I posted up on Friday which interviews Chicago boxing promoter, Bobby Hitz. In it, he speaks a lot about respect, honor, and experience, as well as some interesting tidbits from the Kronk Gym.

    Check it out:

    <a href="http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/news/archives/00001069.htm" target="_new">Bobby Hitz Interview</a>

    Best,



    Juan

  11. #41
    StingerKarl
    Guest

    Ernie

    I liked that, Juan.
    Thanks for that about Foreman; I saw that particular fight-didn't know it was the same fellow.
    Only one thing: you said that Ernie Terrell was a Heavyweight "Contender".
    Ernie actually won the WBA version of the title by beating Eddie Machen after Ali was stripped by that organization.
    We all know Ali cleaned him up and ruined him as a fighter in their fight in the Astrodome-but he was a title claimant and goes down in the record books as being so. Not an easy feat by any means.
    Karl

  12. #42
    Juan C Ayllon
    Guest

    Thanks, Karl!

    Hi Karl,

    Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Guess I should have looked on www.boxrec.com to see if I'd missed something like that.

    I'm glad you enjoyed it.

    Hope you're having a good weekend,



    Juan

  13. #43
    kikibalt
    Guest

    Re: Frank Baltazar, Sr. and His Son, Tony at 4 Yrs. Old!

    Juan, that not me doing the refereeing

    Frank B.

  14. #44
    kikibalt
    Guest

    Re: Frankie and Tony Baltazar with their Manager!

    Juan, Georgino was not my sons manager, i was , he was Danny Red Lopez manager

    Frank B.

  15. #45
    Juan C Ayllon
    Guest

    Frank Baltazar, Sr. and His Son, Tony at 4 Yrs. Old!


  16. #46
    Juan C Ayllon
    Guest

    Frankie and Tony Baltazar with their Manager!



    Frankie and Tony Baltazar with their manager, Benny Georgino Danny Lopez

  17. #47
    Juan C Ayllon
    Guest

    Hi Frank...

    Hey Frank,

    Thanks for the corrections. In reading the headings you sent with the pics, that's how it sounded.

    By the way, please, feel free to post your own pics in the future. No offense meant, but I've got an awful lot to do.

    Cheers,



    Juan

  18. #48
    jyoungfan2
    Guest

    tyson

    Ron, on another thread, someone asks the question, 'whats the first thing to go on a fighter". That question made me think of mike tyson. When tyson fought spinks, he had it all. He had tremendous side to side movement which made many an opponent miss. Later on, he had almost no movement whatsoever. He basically came straight at you and tried to knock your head off first. In your opinion, is tysons lack of movement due to age or a training flaw? I always thought his movement came from his legs, which looked like tree trunks. Did tyson neglect the legs too much to work on the upper body?

  19. #49
    Ronald Lipton
    Guest

    reply

    An eternal boxing question and a good one.

    I have strong feelings about this answer from a lifetime of watching it happen.

    You have used Tyson as an example and all on the zone have watched Mike from the beginning either live, on film from the various early VCR tapes until his recent ring demise.

    This is my answer: What goes first is focus, discipline, and clean living which got them the success in the first place. This combined with metabolic changes with age via metabolism and diet place obstacles in a fighter's path.

    Depending upon the individual and how much training they are doing or not doing, punishment they are taking in the gym and in combat in the ring, outside forces robbing their focus like girlfriends, divorce, police trouble, partying, bad diet between fights, money issues all are demons to be pushed aside a la a Marciano in training camp with a spartan atomosphere.

    With Tyson and Larry Holmes, with Ray Mercer, it was an area of the body which is very important to keep flexible and lean, the midsection, obliques, and lower back. As they age, they eat the same amount and train with the same methods and duration.

    They NEVER compensate for their slower metablolism and they go to fat in bad places. Thus they cannot move the same way as the center of movement is in these areas.

    The tone of their legs goes with age too and they just use boxing methods to train with rather than advanced training methods which contrary to the belief of some here, drain a fighter.

    When you can give yourself a younger body with exercise, and changes in diet, you will last longer.
    You will last longer in the ring, in the bedroom and you will not get sick as much.

    Internally they must change what goes through the bowel, and get off the steak and eggs alone thing. Lay off the booze between fights, get an ab routine for the entire area and eat less and move more.

    When you pound down the food between fights, get a thick waist, your arms and shoulders shrink in size and tone you will not execute well. You want to last in that ring and move quicker as you age, you have to work harder and correctly.

    Tyson is a fatty, an endomorph by nature. It is the same as some babe who has dynamite legs from youth alone. She keeps smoking and drinking, hanging out late, not working out but still is a killer that everyone wants to screw. Then by 30 yrs of age, she has enough cellulite in her back thighs and ass to open a cottage cheese factory because youth isn't helping anymore.

    Tyson was ripped to the tits from hardwork, youth, and a boxing regimen with Rooney that worked. He got older, cocky, stupid and partied too much. A common story. He can rock side to side all he wants, he can do preacher curls for his thick biceps all he wants and regular sit ups.

    Not changing everything from the ground up is as stupid a lack of a metamorphasis as having Aaron Snowell in his corner in Tokyo because they were pals. Pals my ass, he used a blown up luke wark balloon-condom instead of a frozen enswell to try and aleviate the swelling.

    Holyfield lasted as long as he did by training hard, in boxing and bodybuilding with polymetrics, movement, cable work and plenty of boxing skill training.

    Mike never changed, ignorant people around him, and he is too one dimensional and petchulant. No one wants to hear someone going off on a juvenile rant and tirade on you while training him. **** him, he didn't listen to anyone who trained him right.

    Sooo, he has no real training coach, no real fight teacher, and practices the same stuff in training camp.
    Looping punches. All the Durans and Fenechs could do was teach him to fight like them. He has to fight like he used to. The only way is to weigh 217 in great shape not a 233lb semi muscular blivet with no determination, no focus and quite frankly you know MIke does not care anymore. A train wreck.

    The first thing to go on Mike Tyson was his mind.
    His mind if clear, focused, and with real goals like anyone elses can accomplish anything.

    The old boxing addage is that the legs go, the punch stays, the reflexes go ad infinitum.

    What goes is everything with age, everything.
    You have to know how to slow it down, but it is very hard work and diet is a big part. Exercise is too, but one must move, move, move, movement is the key to life.
    Remaining sedentary is a death sentence to all parts of the body. Inactive between fights that is over 35.

  20. #50
    Daddymofo
    Guest

    Re: reply

    Hey Ron,
    Me and Dig we're just discussing Tyson's old style and the toll it takes on the body and effort on the midsecetion. Thanks for a great post, as always some real insightful stuff!

    Daddy

  21. #51
    Ronald Lipton
    Guest

    Re: reply

    For you and Dig, anytime my brother.

  22. #52
    Tom Smario
    Guest

    Re: reply

    Ron,

    I loved your answer to "what goes first".. Seems to me, its the focus and fire that got them there. These seem to pre-date reflexes or legs. Let a fighter go through a divorce or two and then see what happens.

  23. #53
    Ronald Lipton
    Guest

    reply

    It is true Tom.

    Fighting often, which means training often is full of pain and sacrifice. When you are young the well is full of piss and fire to fuel the dynamos.

    In Tyson's case he had dreams of riches and accomplishment, he fought fast, hard and with those bad intentions. Remember no one fights for money, it's the things you can buy with the money, and the women, adulation, the whole trip.

    The whole entire body must be kept in fighting trim to survive injury and as they get older and fat is harder to get rid of, they take short cuts and actually think they are the same warrior.

    Hagler who ran and stayed in shape between fights was an amazing exception but father time even got Marvelous.

    No one escapes, no one. The glory is fleeting and here but for a little while. To blow that dough any champ makes in the beginning is insanity and only someone who is not a student of boxing history will do that.

  24. #54
    monty1
    Guest

    Foreman part 2

    Ron, what do you make of the success of Foreman's second career? (I apologize if you've addressed this elsewhere, but your comments on your recent post regarding Tyson prompted this query). I suspect that he probably worked much much harder than most fans would think, given his joking public persona and extra pounds. Also, it would seem he had disciplined his mind incredibly in order to withstand pain. It would seem he became a brilliant tactician (i.e., knowing when to hang back; knowing when to pounce). His punch seemed like didn't lose much power over the years. And maybe he was little fortunate in his opposition.... many fighters looked scared to death of him and froze; and Michael Moorer fought a very lazy fight in losing the title to George. Of course these are just theories of a fan who has never boxed himself. I was wondering what your take is.

  25. #55
    Ronald Lipton
    Guest

    reply

    Hi Monty, thanks for writing and all your opinions are ones I agree with.

    George had what I coined as the "Skeletal Mechanics" of a Terminator. His Stegasaurus bones are amazing.
    He walks around the ring with his Redwood treetrunk thighs and arms like a Freight train moving through a prairie town, swinging punches and clubing like Briar Bear, from the Song of the South, "I'm going to knock your head clean off," type of approach.

    The Moorer fight to me is a puzzle to this day. An enigma of boxing but fun to watch. Not as much fun as the Liston V Ali II bout which was an Oscar performance.

    George's punch from 1973 is looong gawn. His heavy hands are still there, iron balls, ring savy, and mental mission. He proved his iron stones in the Alex Stewart and Holyfield fights in his second coming.

    Was he that good or the guys he fought so bad. A little of both but many Kudos to big George for giving the youngsters a spanking now and then.

    A powerhouse and a force to be sure.

  26. #56
    TKO Tom
    Guest

    Re: Chickie Ferrera

    Hi Ron,

    I just watched Dick Tiger's final fight with Emile Griffith. As you probably know, it took place in Madison Square Garden on July 15, 1970 - exactly 35 years ago.

    I noticed that Tiger had Chick Ferrera and Freddy Brown in his corner. How good a trainer was Ferrera? What are your memories of him. How about Freddy Brown? Any good stories you can share with us?

    Lastly, how different a fighter was Tiger in this final fight at age 38 than he was a decade earlier?

    Thanks,

    Tom

  27. #57
    Ronald Lipton
    Guest

    reply

    Good to hear from you Tom, how are you doing?

    The difference between the Dick Tiger that struggled with Emile in his last fight and the one who went to war with Hurricane Carter in May 65 and Henry Hank earlier, was like a Grizzly Bear comparred to a NJ Milk Cow.
    The films I have of him thanks to Ade and Sal Rappa show him in 1958 in London and in San Francisco training for Fullmer. He was so sharp, so strong, so quick he was a beautiful athlete in tip top shape.

    Now Freddie Brown and Chickie are some dynamic duo.
    Chickie is someone who was revered by Angelo Dundee who used to tell me stories about him. Freddie with his flat nose, Q-tip in hand had eyes that saw everything there was to see in boxing.

    I remember Freddie in Dick's corner when he fought Carter. I was sitting in the first row with my best buddy Jason Kedersha who was up in training camp with us and his girlfriend from Newark Lucielle Pilla. When Carter got dumped and chopped on and went down again in the 2nd round, the Garden noise was so loud I did not hear the bell. So when Zack Clayton looked like he was stopping the fight, everyone thought it was over. Well here comes Freddie Brown like Jack Kearns dragging Dempsey back to the ring, grabbing the Tiger and leading him calmly back to the corner while everyone else is bugging out, telling him the fight is still on.

    Both Chickie and Freddie were like having Father time, Methusela, and the Guru on the Mount in your corner all at the same time. Nothing shook them up, no cut was too much for them, and their presence gave such a credibility to your corner, you just looked the part of a winning champ with them there.

    Ray Arcel exuding that kind of credibility also and they were fair, polite to the other cornermen, no funny business, and pros to the death. They would fight for their man, argue if necessary but were part of the deep denizens of pro boxing in NY, sought after, respected and earned their pay.

    Their combined experience in the corner would cut right to the chase and they knew each charge they were with.
    They knew if a guy was hurt before the fighter who nailed him knew. Their knowledge was worth diamonds and they saw it all.

    I know Freddie thought Tiger was a guy who could stand toe to toe with any middleweight in history and he always revered his hook as one of the best in boxing history.

  28. #58
    kikibalt
    Guest

    Re: reply

    Ron

    Did you ever meet Ray Arcel ? an if you did what kind of a guy was he

    Frank B.

  29. #59
    Ronald Lipton
    Guest

    reply

    Hi Frank,

    Yes I did, when he was associated with Roberto Duran I saw him at the Garden and at Gleasons gym once also.
    I ran into him a long time ago at a boxing writer's dinner too.

    Each time I talked to him and rate him as one of the most pleasant and knowledgeable boxing men I have ever had the pleasure to talk to. I also rate Eddie Futch like that too, a gentleman with manners, knowledge and an easy going way about him.

    One thing about Ray Arcel though, his eyes and ears have seen and heard it all in boxing, and once he associated himself with a fighter it had to be a maximum effort by that fighter and Ray would be his father in there like you with your boys.

    When Duran quit in frustration V Leonard, it really disgusted and hurt Arcel. He had much faith in Roberto's ability and competitive spirit. It shocked his old school ways and he was of the opinion that the show must go on and the champ goes out on his shield.

    I mostly spoke to him about Benny Leonard, Tony Canzoneri, and Joe Louis. He revered Leonard as the greatest. I kept asking him if Leonard could take Duran and he smiled and said no problem, but don't tell anyone I said so and smiled.

    I said but Leonard couldn't hit that hard, and he took his hand gave me a little push on the shoulder looked at me like I was a crazy fool, and said with all the seriousness he could muster, "Are you kidding me, he'd kill ya with a right hand, he knew every trick in the book to set you up, never be another like him."

    I just shut up after that.

    He was very soft spoken, polite and liked by all.

    Best always,

    Ron

  30. #60
    kikibalt
    Guest

    Re: reply

    Ron

    That a great story about a great boxing man

    Thank Ron

    Frank B.

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