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Thread: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Thanks Ron. So I guess you like me would not be at all surprised to see RJJ at his peak beat Marvin by decision. I like Hagler, his fitness, strength and that steel chin, but I think his lack of real greasy speed and sometimes his predictability lets him down when facing cute fast hard hitting opponents, and Jones was all that. I also believe Toney would beat Marvin, the peak Toney that is. The one who beat Barkley at 168lbs

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Ron, how do you rate Pepino Cuevas, the welterweight champ of the late seventies I believe? He got blasted out by Hearns and Duran, but had a wicked left hook and a good right.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino1
    Ron, how do you rate Pepino Cuevas, the welterweight champ of the late seventies I believe? He got blasted out by Hearns and Duran, but had a wicked left hook and a good right.
    Answer:
    Jose "Pipino" Cuevas did fascinate me during his career. I watched him very closely on the way up. His record of 35 wins with 31 KO's etches his niche as a power puncher in stone. However his erratic 15 losses ending with the tough Lupe Aquino taking him out in 2 tarnishes the overall legend a bit.

    None the less when he brought his fiery dark eyes and vicious mindset into the frey he took down the iron men of that era in his division.
    I know how tough guys like Clyde Grey, Angel Espada, Pete Ranzany, Harold Weston and Randy Shields are believe me.

    I think when the tough as nails Randy Shields extended Cuevas those 15 rounds he perhaps was on the downslide by doubting himself. Cuevas had a bunch of losses on the way up the ladder and after Hearns and Duran his days as a firebreather were basically over.

    Whacking out Billy Backus in 2, Grey in 2, Ranzany in 2, and pounding on the talented and crafty Harold Weston for 9 rounds cutting his eye in 9 are no small accomplishments.

    I watched the way Pipino threw the hook, I did not think that much of his right hand although I am sure it was hard. He had a wicked wide and long arc on the hook with a lot of body torque behind it. When it landed he would put some last second oooomph on it and bones would break.

    He tucked it in close to begin with then he used his sturdy 5'9+" frame with his wide shoulders and wide stance to whip that bitch in like he wanted to cave in a wall.

    Quite frankly I could not believe he did not do better with such a pudgy Duran who absolutely nullified Cuevas in every category. Duran was just amazing to me as he gained weight. There are few men with the mindset of Cuevas and Duran and like a bizzare algebra equation they cancelled each other out in what should have been a freaking war.

    Instead it was fought in close and every second I was totally amazed at what the hell Cuevas was waiting for to whip that hook over and over like he used to. Man it just wasn't there that night. He was so much bigger looking than Duran and Roberto just Iran Barkley'd this guy, out crafting him until he fell. Most depressing but kudos to Duran.

    Hearns in my book could not have survived one of those Cuevas hooks that absolutely never landed. I do not believe that Foreman could survive the hooks from Frazier on March 15, 1971 but they never landed either.

    I do not think Hurricane Carter could survive Florentino Fernandez's hooks that put out Chegui Torres, but they never landed either.

    Hearns gunned right hands straight from behind his shoulder straight down the pipe and Cuevas wavered in the breeze and got gunned down on the way down. What Hearns did to Duran is one of the all time knockouts in boxing history to me personally.

    Cuevas like many great fighters of natural talent to not evolve with training methods to offset age and partying outside the ring. Rubin Olivares was the greatest to me and should NEVER have lost to some guys he lost to. He left it with the babes and the booze without trying training methods to offset that stuff and keep his body fit.

    Just a boxing regimen is not enough as you get older. There seems to be a traditional way to train in the hard core boxing gyms in Mexico. Very few great warriors deviate from the plain and simple boxing training. They come in older, smoother, with a lack of muscle tone and father time gets them rather than their opponent.

    Cuevas was the quintessential tough Mexican nightmare fighter to me.
    He was the real deal, I still cannot believe how easy Duran dealt with him.
    I respect them all but feel a Carmine Basilio, Emile Griffith and Luis Rodriquez would take him to school and beat him badly.

    I also think Gaspar Ortega one of my personal heroes in boxing would eat him up alive. I still cannot get over the film of Ortega and Florentino Fernandez.
    Not many men alive could withstand Floro back then. I thought Ortega beat him.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Mr Lipton

    (Hope this has not been asked before I did look but apologise if I missed it)

    Two simple but related questions.

    (1) Who was the poorest training fighter you ever saw who still managed for short or long periods of time achieve great things in the ring?

    (2) Do you have any background knowledge on the stories of the poor training habits of the multi-talented 'manchild' Wilfred Benitez. I've read that at times he trained little for many of his fights, if this is true than you have to marvel even more at his truely amazing natural talent. The young Wilfred Benitez was at times a physical work of art in the ring, breath taking in my opinion.

    Regards.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KOJOE90
    Mr Lipton

    (Hope this has not been asked before I did look but apologise if I missed it)

    Two simple but related questions.

    (1) Who was the poorest training fighter you ever saw who still managed for short or long periods of time achieve great things in the ring?

    (2) Do you have any background knowledge on the stories of the poor training habits of the multi-talented 'manchild' Wilfred Benitez. I've read that at times he trained little for many of his fights, if this is true than you have to marvel even more at his truely amazing natural talent. The young Wilfred Benitez was at times a physical work of art in the ring, breath taking in my opinion.

    Regards.
    Answer:

    Hi Ko,
    always glad to hear from you.

    I have never in my life seen anything like the great Joey Giardello. He smoked, did not train hard and handled the monsters like babies in there. He easily was one of the most confident and tough pros I have ever seen or heard about and I saw him in person all the time. I was in awe of the guy.
    He probably was in the top 10 toughest of all time in boxing period!
    There was a time he did train hard when he was younger fighting guys like Garth Panter and when they gave him the shot against Tiger in 63 and when he defended it against Carter in Dec 64 he did train hard, but he still smoked.

    He was so relaxed in there and had such a sense of the ring and pro boxing that nothing ever shook him up mentally as far as fear. I saw him take shots from Tiger, Carter, Fullmer, Rocky Rivero in two fights that make me cringe, and the guy goes nowhere.

    He fought them all like Henry Hank, Benton and on and on. Totally relaxed, totally fearless. There will NEVER be another guy like this again, trust me.

    Hardest training fighters when they wanted to win were Hurricane Carter early on in his career, Tiger was a demon for training and diet as was Griffith, Marciano, Basilio, Joe Louis with Chappie on him all the time,
    Jose Monon Gonzalez trained hard and was like a piece of iron, Johnny Persol trained very hard. Joe Frazier was a workaholic, as was Chuvalo.
    I would have to say Zale was a power house too.



    As to Benitez, I would not underestimate him throughout his career.
    Doing that well with Ray Leonard at his peak, Antonio Cervantes, Mo Hope, Duran, one has to be in shape. When he started going downhill I am sure he neglected himself and paid the price.

    In boxing no one and I mean no one can fool around with Father Time when hungry young lions and wolves are always snapping at your heels waiting to take you down.

    You have to be ready at all times or do not get into that ring. A guy brought in to fill in for a fighter who could not make it, can easily upset a champ with one punch. Boxing history is full of such examples.

    Sometimes guys train very hard in the gym but will not run much. Frankie DePaula hated running but was very strong in that ring until he ran out of gas. Devil Green took him out in two when Frankie shot his load and Green went nowhere.

    Tyson dogged training for the Buster Douglas fight and got the hell kicked out of him. Worst corner work ever.

    Sometimes globe trotters like Holly Mims did not have a chance to train and would fill in and kick the shit of the best. They say he beat Robinson right after the Lamotta fight for the title, and others say after decking Carter in the Garden, he had the handcuffs on as a promise to Teddy Brenner who gave him the fight after Gomeo Brennan pulled out with a cold.

    I boxed with Holly in D.C. for two weeks and he treated me like a father, teaching me and giving me a chance with him. He would fight anyone but was very technical and when he fought Emile in Saratoga Springs it was a boring fight when I thought it would be a great one.

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    Photo on Ali Article



    Hey,

    Ron sent me this article, which I posted also on the Ali article in the Modern Section of the Message Board.

    Regards,


    Juan C. Ayllon

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Ron, I always was told that Clay/Ali was a demon for training. 1st in the gym and last out. Do you have any knowledge on his training regimes?

    Also, what exercise do you believe to be the best when it comes to improving stamina?

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Thanks for the reply Mr Lipton. I am lucky enough to own a copy of the Carter v Mimms fight and have heard the talk of Mimms 'wearing the cuffs'. I also heard that after the fight Mimms when asked about dropping Carter in the 4th said something like "Oh! I just wanted to let him know I was there". Holly Mimms along with George Benton are two of the most skilled 'modern' Middleweights never to win a World Title in my humble opinion.

    Once again thanks for your time.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
    I know how tough guys like Clyde Grey, Angel Espada, Pete Ranzany, Harold Weston and Randy Shields are believe me.

    Whacking out Billy Backus in 2, Grey in 2, Ranzany in 2, and pounding on the talented and crafty Harold Weston for 9 rounds cutting his eye in 9 are no small accomplishments.

    I watched the way Pipino threw the hook, I did not think that much of his right hand although I am sure it was hard. He had a wicked wide and long arc on the hook with a lot of body torque behind it. When it landed he would put some last second oooomph on it and bones would break.
    I few years back I had the good fortune to meet Clyde Gray and naturally I asked him extensively about many of his fights including those against Cuevas and Hearns. Gray told me that in their fights, Cuevas hit harder with his left hook than Hearns did with his right hand although he did concede that Hearns wasn't fully developed as a fighter when they fought.
    Last edited by 10-8; 01-20-2007 at 12:41 AM.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by walshb
    Ron, I always was told that Clay/Ali was a demon for training. 1st in the gym and last out. Do you have any knowledge on his training regimes?

    Also, what exercise do you believe to be the best when it comes to improving stamina?
    Answer: Today, it would be running with windsprints, treadmill, running in the parks, up and down hills far far away from cars and carbon monoxide, rope jumping up to 45 minutes, 30 minutes, 20 minutes, high repitition rowing.

    Answer:
    Hi buddy.
    I first saw him in person when he was fighting Sonny Banks.
    He is only 4 years older than me. I first became friendly when I went to the 5th street gym in Miami. At that time I was pretty much in awe of Luis Rodriquez and Florentino Fernandez too.

    Ali really respected Luis and I believe studied his moves intently as they both had to rely on their fantastic legs. When he was super young like that CC did it all and was always a runner whose legs never gave out on him but did hurt him from running if he was off for awhile.

    It is a fact that Ali like Emile Griffith did a lot of natural running when they were kids and it built a foundation that helped tremendously. I worked for a solid year and a half 16 hrs a day and I kid you not on the Muhammad Ali, The Whole Story project, most of my time at a computer, with award winning editors like Leon Gast, for When we were Kings, and Robert Spiegelman from JFK, Oliver Stone's man.

    The other time was spent traveling with Ali which I still have on film.
    Next to me at all times was Walter Youngblood aka "Blood" Ali's former cornerman whose mind I picked away at eternally. Blood had been with Sugar Ray Robinson and told me all the stories that have never made print but are still with me.

    When it came to Ali, he confirmed what I always knew, that Ali was a very, very strong man. His bones, entire skeletal structure, head, jaw, legs, everything.

    During the Cassius Clay era look at his pictures in action, he had it all, and his midsection, intercostals, serratus everything was ripped and ready.
    He COULD RUMBLE with the big boys.

    He put on weight, faced layoffs, the Vietnam thing etc, came back and trained hard facing everyone plus Father Time and a slowly debilitating accumlation of punishment too.

    In the gym at Deer Lake, he would pre exhaust himself with running, gym work on the heavy bag, speed bag, rope, conventional fighter sit-ups off the edge of the ring apron and rubbing table, leg scissors, bicycle movements with his legs, then get in the ring worn out and face Ellis, Holmes, Michael Dokes, Mel Turnbow, Bossman Jones or whoever.

    His windsprints, quick long stride, up hills, down hills, and miles of running in the early mornings or at other times depending on the day, put the foundation of stamina into him deeply.

    He changed from hitting very hard heavy bags to softer ones to whip his blazing combinations into. He even gave a gift of one of those bags to Ken Norton to help his hands from suffering injury.

    Ali never used cables, weights which if he did properly would have helped him in the later years with high repitions. He relied strictly on old school methods.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KOJOE90
    Thanks for the reply Mr Lipton. I am lucky enough to own a copy of the Carter v Mimms fight and have heard the talk of Mimms 'wearing the cuffs'. I also heard that after the fight Mimms when asked about dropping Carter in the 4th said something like "Oh! I just wanted to let him know I was there". Holly Mimms along with George Benton are two of the most skilled 'modern' Middleweights never to win a World Title in my humble opinion.

    Once again thanks for your time.
    Answer: Hi Ko,

    I watch that fight all the time. Just amazing stuff to me. Holly slid over to the left side of Carter, turned over a quick hook to get his attention focused on his left hand, and then zigged over a bit more to the right and wham, blindsided him with a nail hammering right hand to the chops.

    Down he go, shook real good, but up at 4. His face clearly showed he was shaken and surprised. He had guts believe me. He finished a tough fight coming back blazing.

    I was right next to Sugar Ray Robinson who was Rubin's good buddy and who fought Mims too. Robinson actually smiled knowingly when Holly dropped Carter, and said, to my quick question, Do you think he'll stop him Ray, " Naw just showing him whose boss."

    Stayed with me forever!

    I later was able to spend some time with Ray alone in 64 before the Archer fight. That's another story.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 10-8
    I few years back I had the good fortune to meet Clyde Gray and naturally I asked him extensively about many of his fights including those against Cuevas and Hearns. Gray told me that in their fights, Cuevas hit harder with his left hook than Hearns did with his right hand although he did concede that Hearns wasn't fully developed as a fighter when they fought.
    Hi 10-8,

    That is interesting. Two different kind of punchers, one heavy and concussive the other whipping it over with shocking effect, and a right hand jolt that was like a drill to the body or head.

    Hearns would be more effective as his launching points were traditional without hitiching the punches like Cuevas and would get there quicker.

    I am sure Butterbean and Tony Galento had a hook that many would say would be the hardest and most ponderous so to speak, but I would not want Joe Louis to hit me the short punhces that spun men like Buddy Baer in a 360 degree circle, or three short hooks in succession that dropped his brother Max.

    Hearns and Bob Foster were two devastating stringbeans. Cuevas and Florentino Fernandez would slam you to death with that hook everywhere but the bottom of your feet, in somewhat the same fashion.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
    During the Cassius Clay era look at his pictures in action, he had it all, and his midsection, intercostals, serratus everything was ripped and ready.
    Hi Ron. I think this picture illustrates your point quite convincingly.


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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Yeah, hell yeah,

    bravo and well done mate.

    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hello Ron,
    What was your opinion of Gerry Cooney? I saw him fight Jimmy Young and he really looked good. Against Michael Spinks he looked pretty bad. Not quite sure what to make of him except that he did have some left hook.
    Gil Clancy trained him for his last fight against Foreman and his footwork was much improved, until he ran into some of George's bombs.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino1
    Hello Ron,
    What was your opinion of Gerry Cooney? I saw him fight Jimmy Young and he really looked good. Against Michael Spinks he looked pretty bad. Not quite sure what to make of him except that he did have some left hook.
    Gil Clancy trained him for his last fight against Foreman and his footwork was much improved, until he ran into some of George's bombs.
    Answer:

    I always thought Gerry was a tough and brave fighter and not just some tall guy with no guts. His left hook was a dealy weapon although he needed a big right hand to go with it.

    I did not like the way he threw it at times as he would lead with it from the outside which is almost impossible against a class A+ fighter. He needed to roll under or slip to his left and use it to count from angles, it would have served him better in different fights, if he could also slide to his right and drop it in short or long from angles.

    Remember how Ezzard Charles dropped Jersey Joe with a left hook from out of the blue, and the same Ezzard Charles dropping for the count Bob Satterfield with that kind of shot. Amazing use of the hook.

    Cooney threw it as a big tall guy and it was effective on certain kinds of opponents, devastating when Gerry would bend with it and get some twist and legs into it with real vicious torque.

    The way he destroyed Norton is amazing and the referee almost killed Norton too that night by freezing which he always did. (Mercer v Morrison, Tua V Ruiz, Norton v Cooney etc.) Thank God Norton wasn't killed by the extra punches when he was helpless.

    Cooney's left hook became more refined and effective as he continued on in his pro career. He did of course fight and beat some tough guys in the NY Daily News GG. Alex "The Destroyer" Stewart for one. I refereed Alex in the Manhattan armory where he scored a 10 count KO.

    Doing in Ron Lyle and busting up Jimmy Young despite both being a bit over the hill is still no small feat with the gloves on. The way Cooney made Lyle quit by digging and digging the short left into the right side of his body just under the last rib, made the big bad man fold and collapse.

    I am still in shock that Mike Spinks handled Gerry the way he did, it really surprised me. Gerry showed tremendous heart against Holmes and is well liked and respected outside the ring as a nice guy which he is.

    I thought he could have done much better in the Foreman fight. Some of these guys need someone who had a lot of fights themselves and can demonstrate what they want them to do rather than a cornerman who cannot actually demonstrate the punches or changes in the delivery of the shots.

    Gil was very good at what he does, George Benton is a fight teacher and is very good at what he did too.


    I always wish Cooney well.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    He needed to roll under or slip to his left and use it to count from angles,

    Should read: Counter from angles.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hi Ron,
    My dad who is 88 years old, but still knows his boxing inside out, always says that Ezzard Charles was the greatest lightheavy of all time even though he never won the championship. Do you agree?
    Also Mike Tyson, Angelo Dundee, and many others claim that "punchers are born not made." Outside of learning perfect technique (punching form) do you think there are excercises that increase punching power? I don't mean to contradict all those great ones who will forget more than I will ever know, but I feel certain that strength training will help with power to some degree.
    Dino1 is online now Edit/Delete Message

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino1
    Hi Ron,
    My dad who is 88 years old, but still knows his boxing inside out, always says that Ezzard Charles was the greatest lightheavy of all time even though he never won the championship. Do you agree?
    Also Mike Tyson, Angelo Dundee, and many others claim that "punchers are born not made." Outside of learning perfect technique (punching form) do you think there are excercises that increase punching power? I don't mean to contradict all those great ones who will forget more than I will ever know, but I feel certain that strength training will help with power to some degree.
    Dino1 is online now Edit/Delete Message
    Answer:

    Hi Dino and a special hello to your wonderful Father who still enjoys boxing at his age. That is great.

    I have long believed Ezzard Charles was the best light heavy and picked him as such on this webiste.
    http://www.grandslampage.net/

    I feel that puchers are not born, not at all. Some fighters can learn to punch harder whatever their body type, but will never be real brick layers.

    I saw the use of exquisite timing eclipse punching power and physical strength many times in that ring. The one example that stayes forever with me where I was first row ringside was when feather fisted Joey Archer did what Henry Hank, Gene Fullmer, Rocky Rivero, Florentino Fernandez and others could not do at 160lbs. He timed Dick Tiger and hit him with a picture perfect one-two which made Tiger tremble and hover in the air almost going down.

    I almost fell out of my seat.

    I can take any fighter from Chuck Lidell in the UFC to DeLahoya and make them hit 100% harder with both hands. My offer is always the same, if they train with me, sign a contract, it says, If you do not win by KO or score a knockdown I do not get paid, then all my work was for free.

    I have them do punching power drills with me that few do. It is my secrets but it served me well in fighting and stopping many much bigger men quickly my whole tumultuous life.

    I teach them such control over their body, shoulders, midsection, legs, and go over and over the proper time, position to throw these ko shots. We work very hard but it works. It is in addition to whatever else they do so they must save some gas in the gas tank to do it.

    Wanting the shot to be hard, relaxing until you drill it in, speed, balance, snap, torque, use of the body as one, hard hands, extra snap, and exercises that enable you to use your entire upper and lower body with power are the key.

    My secrets are the lightning computer launch I demand of the shot, use of both hands, muscle endurance so you can do it later in the fight, and ball busting training one on one with me.

    Never fails, not once.


    I could have DLH ko PBF in two if he would call. They have too many cooks, use old school methods forever, do not do the research to try, and do not realize that certain kind of trainers can only take you so far.

    You must find the rare maniac whose specialty you need. The one gunmaker, the one watchmaker, the one tailor, the one guy whose whole life has been studying punching power and then using it succesfully as a fighter, bouncer and street fighter.

    They don't know about me because they think of me only as a ref, I trained with Tiger, DePaula, Carter, Devil Green and man I know what I am doing.
    I developed a system gleaning what I have seen from all body types and created my own.

    With my system, every punch hurts. Like Beau Jack once said, "I put my body into the kind of condition where I could fight like hell for 15 rounds."
    That says it all.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Thank you for your in-depth answer Ron. Not only do you know alot, but you share it so generously. A rare combination.
    I don't know if my dad was putting me on or not, but he always said that one of the best dream fights he could put together would be Marciano vs. Galento. He said that would have been a war. To me, they look like opposite ends of the spectrum on conditioning, but like I said, dad knows his boxing. And Galento did score a flash knockdown against Louis.
    My dad also said that in his opinion Louis's best fights were against Max Baer and Primo Carnera. In dad's eyes, Louis could do no wrong and he is the yardstick by which my dads evaluates every heavyweight champ (by how good they would have done against Louis).
    Be well and thanks for sharing your experise.

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    Re: Mims vs. Carter

    Mims definitely had the "cuffs" on against Carter and that is why Carter agreed to take the fight when Mims came in as a late subsitute. Garden matchmaker Teddy Brenner told Carter that there was no way he (Carter) could lose when Carter balked at fighting Mims. Carter said what do you mean, Teddy? Teddy said: "Listen to me, you cannot lose the fight." Look at some of the inept punches Mims threw when Carter got up from the knockdown. I know you are a big Carter fan, but Mims was told not to win that night. And guess what, no disgrace not to want to fight Mims at that stage, or at any stage, of Carter's career. Better fighters than Carter avoided Mims.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hi Ron,

    I know you were an Ali sparring partner in 1977 so I thought you might enjoy this clip of an Ali-Michael Dokes sparring session from that time.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=yP7CmTg_alI

    What was your opinion of Dokes as a fighter?

    I always thought that it was a toss-up between Dokes and Page as to who was the most talented young heavyweight in the 80's.

    Unfortunately, cocaine abuse and the politics of boxing robbed the fans of the potentially good match-up of a Holmes-Dokes fight.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino1
    Thank you for your in-depth answer Ron. Not only do you know alot, but you share it so generously. A rare combination.
    I don't know if my dad was putting me on or not, but he always said that one of the best dream fights he could put together would be Marciano vs. Galento. He said that would have been a war. To me, they look like opposite ends of the spectrum on conditioning, but like I said, dad knows his boxing. And Galento did score a flash knockdown against Louis.
    My dad also said that in his opinion Louis's best fights were against Max Baer and Primo Carnera. In dad's eyes, Louis could do no wrong and he is the yardstick by which my dads evaluates every heavyweight champ (by how good they would have done against Louis).
    Be well and thanks for sharing your experise.
    Answer:

    Thank you kindly Sir.

    I was fortunate enough to have met both Galento who I knew very well and was with several times as well as his son and the great Marciano who I met once.

    I have a film of Marciano commenting on Galento refering to him like this,
    Rock was hosting Jackie Gleason on "The Man Event," Rocky's wonderful show where he would bring on guests like Tony Franciosa, Tony Bennet, Anthony Quinn, Doublas Fairbanks Junior, Jimmy Durante, Zsa Zsa Gabor,
    Jonathan Winters, Ed Sullivan and Jackie Gleason.

    Thanks to the great boxing historian and wonderful gentleman Sal Rappa I now have those films to enjoy over and over again. Rocky's show was awkward and touching at the same time. They all loved him and the stars were in awe of the great man.

    When he had Gleason on, I believe they were watching my buddy Joe Micelli fight and Gleason told a story to Rock which I later found out from friends of Galento was totally untrue but who knows.
    Gleason was performing at a small club in Newark and he was being heckled by what he described as a short fat man who was bald. Gleason could not put up with it anymore and told the guy to step outside.

    It was Two Ton and according to the Great One, Tony laid him out cold. The owner dragged Gleason back inside where he woke up in the basement.
    Tyson did a similar thing to Wesley Snipes in a nightclub but it was over a babe.

    Anyhow, Marciano says, "Jackie, you picked a fight with the roughest, toughest, street fighter in the history of the game."

    Later I called a police buddy of mine and told him of this story. He grew up with the Galento family and knew the story well. He said Tony denied this EVER even remotely occurred.

    Galento was from Orange NJ. I trained for awhile at Sam Magee's Ringside Gym which was right behind the Normandy Inn. Galento came in there for years and was Sam's best buddy. They loved to booze it up.

    Galento came into the gym and watched me spar with a gigantic muscular light heavy-named Sugar Cliff Ryan whose back was made out of steel cables.

    I banged him all over the ring exploding and raining shots on the big man and dropped him with a vicious left hook. He was a wide puncher and I ate up those kind of guys. Galento was smoking a big cigar watching and talking with Sam who was supposed to be in my corner for a tv fight coming up at Symphony Hall in Newark.

    Galento comes over and I believe he was starting to suffer from diabetes which later cost him his leg. He was truly a rough and scary man an absolute fearless animal who you would have to kll with an axe to stop on the street. He ruined another local fighter crippling him for life, a nice man by the name of Don Petrin.

    I knew all these things and Tony would almost never admit if anyone beat him so help me God, including Louis and Baer, BUT, there was a tough amateur champion from that area, who was a Diamond belt, Golden Glove and everything else champ, called Elmer "Shrimp" Palardy.

    He was a Capt of Police in West Orange and his son Mike, me and the Capt had many brawls of legend in the area. He told me that the two hardest hitters he had EVER seen in his life bar none was Frankie Zamaris who stopped Melio Bettina in two, and Tony Galento whose left hook would actually kill you if he kept landing it solid before the ref could save a man.

    Well Galento, says words to the effect, "Hey Kid, Sam tells me you he thinks you will go all the way, so I'm going to show you how to shorten that hook up ok, hit em on the belt line, and bring it to the balls when the ref is on the other side etc."

    Well, just like in the Gentleman Jim movie with Errol Flynn, when Flynn goes into the Olympic club and hands his cigar to Alexis Smith to hold while he boxes with the English instructor, Galento just hands me the Cigar while I still have my gloves on and takes his jacket off.

    I'm balancing the lit cigar on my glove with Sam watching, drunk out of his mind, Galento and him lit, and this old fat man with slits for eyes, wallops this heavy and I do mean hard as a rock bag hanging there with a left hook, bare knuckles, and it made me shudder.

    The punch would have killed me dead on the spot. It was so vicious, fast and hard that to this day it seemed to me harder than David Tua's hook who I refereed twice up close. That bag almost broke in half, it doubled the bag in mid air and we had some mean hitting heavyweight in that gym that could punch and they NEVER came close to what this little fat man did while drunk, out of shape and old let alone without warming up.

    I saw Sonny Liston in person workout in Philly and in preparation for the 2nd Ali fight and on films. Galento's hooks was harder trust me.

    If Marciano in his superb condition at 185 took on Tony it would be a bloodbath. If you had the right ref in there like me, I would let it go to the finish. I go with the Rock on condition, integrity, determination and balls.
    Galento had the hook in spades, unparalled viciousness, and every dirty trick in the book from heeling, thumbing or whatever.

    He made Fritzie Zivic look like a Fairy. He lifted Joe Louis off his feet, and the most amazing beating to me was the job he did on Lou Nova who was big, strong and in shape. I have a hi lite of that fight and it looked so brutal it is beyond belief.

    I also agree with your Dad on Joe Louis, to me he was the best.
    His KO over Baer, Schmeling, Carnera, Nova, Conn, and the second Walcot fight are amazing to me. He handled Buddy Baer, big Abe Simon and everyone else. My hero always has been the Brown Bomber and one of the happiest boxing moments for me ever was to meet him in MSG.

    best,
    Ron

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    Re: Mims vs. Carter

    Quote Originally Posted by wolgast
    Mims definitely had the "cuffs" on against Carter and that is why Carter agreed to take the fight when Mims came in as a late subsitute. Garden matchmaker Teddy Brenner told Carter that there was no way he (Carter) could lose when Carter balked at fighting Mims. Carter said what do you mean, Teddy? Teddy said: "Listen to me, you cannot lose the fight." Look at some of the inept punches Mims threw when Carter got up from the knockdown. I know you are a big Carter fan, but Mims was told not to win that night. And guess what, no disgrace not to want to fight Mims at that stage, or at any stage, of Carter's career. Better fighters than Carter avoided Mims.
    Reply:

    Hi Wolgast, always good to hear from you. I had a sad falling out with Carter which was personal but will always have a finite appreciation of all his bouts and how he fought them including the ones he lost. The man always looked good and was brave to the last drop. Films don't lie and the one with Mims was a good bout.

    I spent many hours talking with a real citidel of boxing knowledge back in 1991 in person. Jerry Isenberg and I spent a lot of time on "Muhammad Ali, The Whole Story," and I was put up in the Town house on West 11th street in NYC by the production company where I commuted to and from Director's International Office in So Ho. Jerry was at the town house for hours on end answering the questions on film that I wrote.

    In between takes and on lunch we talked about boxing endlessly and he told me the story of the Mims fight from his viewpoint and I told him mine from training camp before the fight.

    I actually asked Carter as shyness is not one of my virtures.

    His short terse answer was "If I had the handcuffs on in that fight I sure as hell did not know about it." He was very tempermental and I was living, eating, sleeping in his camp earning my keep so I did not push it as he was on his peirod, and brother that is the last place anyone would want to be pressing him with unpleasant questions.

    We were always half starved from running and eating twice a day with sore feet from running and training camp boredom. So I let it drop and changed the subject to babes and partying.

    I asked Holly Mims the same question in DC and he hinted at what you said is the truth. When Mims dropped Rubin it was a classic move and one I copy to this day. I have it DOWN!

    Holly fought many boring fights but was a MASTER of boxing. He passed away from kidney problems like poor Luis Rodriquez did. Rubin respected him tremendously.

    The films show a spirited fight from beginning to end and if the fix was in man did they exchange some shots. Carter can be plainly seen trying to take him out time and time again.

    Who the hell knows. It is true Gomeo Brennan dropped out with a cold and later fought Carter which I watch all the time on film. Holly was just amazing.

    Harold Green later claimed he dumped to Graziano. Rock denied it.
    Green was a tough as they come and I always was curious about that one.

    Who knows the truth? Carter, Holly and Teddy Brenner. Teddy and Holly are on the other side, only Carter remains.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Sorry I mispelled Jerry's last name. it is Izenbeg.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 10-8
    Hi Ron,

    I know you were an Ali sparring partner in 1977 so I thought you might enjoy this clip of an Ali-Michael Dokes sparring session from that time.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=yP7CmTg_alI

    What was your opinion of Dokes as a fighter?

    I always thought that it was a toss-up between Dokes and Page as to who was the most talented young heavyweight in the 80's.

    Unfortunately, cocaine abuse and the politics of boxing robbed the fans of the potentially good match-up of a Holmes-Dokes fight.

    Reply:
    Hi 10-8,

    Dokes had his time in that ring for sure. He was lightning fast, and had some moves, courage and desire. He abused his body and paid the price.
    Boxing success is so fleeting depending on total dedication outside the ring with diet and clean living.

    I hope my damn dial up can provide me with this footage, I would love to see it.

    In Deer Lake , I unfortunately saw Ali, take much too much punishment from Michael and do nothing about it but absorb it while he worked himself into shape.

    I never agreed with that but Ali did it his way. God he took too much punishment as if those moments would be the only ones that mattered.

    As much as generations of intelligent people knew nothing of the horrors of smoking tobacco, many of us never imagined the injuries that would surface in time from too much head and body trauma taken in boxing.

    I think they also better take care in UFC bouts with kicks to the body producing horrific damage in years to come just as a sidenote.

    Drugs, booze, smoking, do not mix with being a boxing champion and having boxing longevity.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Additionally, Page and Dokes were vastly talented but did not evolve their training with enough with modern supplemental exercises as they put on weight, aged and abused their bodies in various ways.

    Both were great boxing talents who shined in their time allowed by fate and father time. I always remember Page knocking down Tyson in sparring.
    Just so sad how they ended up.

    Discipline is everything, in diet, in fun, in being drawn into excesses that can destroy your boxing talent.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Mr Lipton,

    Perhaps I missed it, but did you perchance forget to answer my question with regards to kicking in MMA? What is it's place and what are the ways in which you would defend against certain kicks? Also, can you explain some things about how you would incorporate your ground game with your boxing?

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Off The River
    Mr Lipton,

    Perhaps I missed it, but did you perchance forget to answer my question with regards to kicking in MMA? What is it's place and what are the ways in which you would defend against certain kicks? Also, can you explain some things about how you would incorporate your ground game with your boxing?
    Answer:

    If you are a Pete Williams on top of his game and whip in a high kick with your shin slamming into Mark Coleman's face it works like a charm. Coleman who could not get out of the way and was effective in his day, was just too damn slow for a variety of reasons.

    If you are Cro Crop it works everytime, or if you have a spinning back kick to the stomach of your opponent at the speed of light it is great which they showed on Spike last night.

    Now if you are fighting a great striker which is the epitome of a pro fighter or a Chuck Lidell, Tito Ortiz's shoot attempts at take downs did not work nor his kicks. Kicks to Tim Sylvia only get the guy throwing those kicks a right hand to the jaw while up on one leg which they also showed last night on Spike.

    Constant kicks to the side of a boxer's front leg can be devastating depending on the boxer. It has NEVER worked on me in fights. Too fast of a striker and my defense is strong against them as I am lucky to be quick on my feet. Make them pay without rushing in, look for the move with either leg and judge your distance and timing.

    Defense is taking the offense, taking the kick in a non vulnerable spot and striking with reaction punches. Great foot speed reaction to get out of the way is best, striking the leg with the proper kind of vicious punch and handling it like Chueng Lee does with counter kicks and leg sweeps is good too.

    I incorporate Judo throws, foot sweeps, and various wrestling take downs when I am grabbed. When in close and my hands are free it is strikes, elbows, palm heels but mostly punches. On the ground my abs and the whole abdominal area usually helps me twist fast into a choke position.

    The Judo chokes and submissions I have practiced for years are used in the UFC and are called different names. E.g. phonetically

    The Guilliotine choke is called in Judo (HA DA KA JEE MEE)
    also the Japanese death lock.

    Arm bar submission at the elbow is called in Judo-(UDI HISH A GEE, JU GEE GATA MEE)

    My ground game if forced to the ground is nerve work, fast strikes, chokes, and things best not mentioned in the rule book to save my life.

    Old Aesop Fable:
    The Cat and the Fox,
    A cat and a fox were talking in the forest. Reynard bragged about how many tricks he knew to confuse his enemies to his amusement. He enjoyed being so smart and diversified in his ability to escape and embarrass pursuing enemies.

    The cat said, "I envy you Sir Fox, you are indeed the smartest animal in the forest, I only know one way to escape danger."

    As the fox continued to brag a pack of hounds burst into view. The cat let out an instinctive screech and lept in one move straight up into the air as cat's do, landing safely on a tree brach too high for the hounds to get to.

    The Fox ran around in circles trying to decide which of his many tricks to use as so many of them were truly effective. While he was deciding the hounds set upon him and tore him to pieces.

    It is my opinion to develope a great right hand and great jab and hook. Practice them at great speed and in combination. Be fast on your feet and in great shape by living clean and practicing all the time for fun.
    Have fast and solid lateral movement, front and back speed.

    Take kicks while moving out of the direction of the move and take a kick on the softer part of one's arms not a joint as your raise to block them. Take a kick in the least vulnerable body area you can achieve if you cannot get out of the way.

    Low snapping side kicks to the knee and shin are devastating if you can get them in without paying for it. Once someone is close enough to me in a self defense situation and I can see they are up to no good, I move out of that zone quickly and talk to them to back off as I want no trouble. If they persist I keep moving out of their way and like lightning pull my Virgin Mobile.

    Then I press 911 on my cell and start to talk to the police. For home invasions, Armed Robbery defense to protect one's life, I recommend a 230 grain bonded Golden Sabre .45 bullet, in the model 21 Glock like the NY State Police are getting in the spring, or a 180 grain jacketed hollow point in a .40 caliber model 22 Glock. Anything less against a determined armed and drug induced assailant is flirting with disaster or being cut horrifically with a sharp edged instrument.

    I have a NYS Armed Guard License and in my training have seen films of officers being cut, ruined, and surprised by sharp instruments by allowing an attacker to get closer than 21 feet. Each time the officer was unable to become pistol ready from a holstered weapon and was cut beyond repair.

    Horrible stuff to see and it happens everyday. Martial arts and boxing are for the ring, training and defense against unarmed attacks. Running and cell phones are for reality to stay out of trouble.

    best wishes,
    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Thank you for that great write up about Galento. I have my own short story about him. When I was about ten years old, my dad used to take me to Sunnyside Gardens to watch fights. One night we spotted Galento outside. He was dressed in a pinstripe suit, tie, etc. and looked sharp. My dad ran over to him and said "Hi Tony, we met back in 1942 in some gym in New Jersey." Galento made believe he remembered my dad. My dad introduced me. I asked for Galento's autorgraph. I only had a really short stubby not too sharp pencil with me which I gave to Galento along with a program to sign. Tony casually threw the pencil down, took out a very elegant silver pen and signed his autograph. Something like "to a kid who has a great dad.". He then gave me the program and told me to keep the silver pen "because your dad and I were so so close" -- there is no doubt in my mind he had no recollection of my dad but wanted my dad to look good in front of his son. I saved that pen for years, and then in about 1992 some scum bag broke into my house and stole it from my desk. That thief will never know how much that pen meant to my dad.

    Many years later my wife and bumped into Mike Tyson in the late 80's and he was as nice as could be to my wife and I. Very, very patient also. Maybe I will tell that story later.

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