Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

[Chris Nagel]

Thank you too buddy, It's a pleasure Ron.

I loved how Sugar Ray Leonard would always praise Marvin Hagler as a great fighter, an honour to be fighting him etc...to the point that Marvin was having trouble getting angry at the guy. I have a clip of Leonard laying it on pretty heavy during a press conference then walking over to shake Marvin's hand to thank him for the opportunity. Meanwhile Marvin is glaring, looking away refusing to shake his hand. You can see Marvin's frustration.

All a psyche job of course by Leonard.

Hi 10-8
I love that example! I also like the idea of giving a guy who has the stone-cold-killer persona a Ray-Leonard grin. It can take be a little disarming don't you think. Now have if your opponent is blessed with a child-like grin, you'd have to fight yourself to not smile back.

On a different note, I think that it's a good idea to turn someone's taunts or showboating against them. If a guy doesn't want to come towards you and gives you a come-here expression, you can shift on the balls of your feet and turn your back on them, grinning, pointing, smiling and waving to the crowd while being in position to counter their lead if your antics really got under their skin.

If you can get a foot in between your opponent's while they are doing the Ali-shuffle, then go for it and capitalize on a possible knock-down while they get off balance.

Monkey-see-monkey-do antics sometimes work when one fighter loses their composure and ends up leaving an opening for their opponent.

With that all said, I think that it's best to approach a fight "professionally", 100% at every second at every round, and capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes while holding yourself to a higher standard of class.

Anyways, I'll say it again, I love Ray Leonard example that you brought up. It's the way to do it, and even though it may have been for a psychological edge, that way it will make it easier for put an arm around each other when everything is said and done.

Archie Moore came up with some psychological tricks of his own, some I think should be resurrected. One trick that he liked to do is send a guy a postcard of congratulations after they won the title.

[10-8]

Anyways, I'll say it again, I love Ray Leonard example that you brought up. It's the way to do it, and even though it may have been for a psychological edge, that way it will make it easier for put an arm around each other when everything is said and done.

Hagler was one of those guys who preferred to psyche himself up by developing some dislike for his opponent.

I'm pretty sure Hagler even cut short a promotional tour he and Ray did before their fight because he was having difficulty building up a hate on for Ray who was endlessly praising Marvin to the media.

[Ron Lipton]

One time it did not work was when Leonard was truly scared and I do mean scared of Terry Norris and praying Norris would take it easy on him in their fight. He knew Terry was a tough street kid dying for the opportunity to take Ray apart while he was jaded.

Leonard kept currying or trying to curry favor with him rather than engage him in any opposing force type of thing, it was different this time and sad because it was obvious he knew Terry wanted an old fashioned piece of him and he kept trying to kiss his ass for him.

He of course got beaten because he knew he would ahead of time and nothing would save him or anyone else when that bell rings. He had wasted his time lobbying for mercy.

[doomeddisciple]

This is almost a shocking photo of Chris Byrd from fightnews.com reporting his loss of 40 pounds.

Ron - Weight cutting has been most recently cited as the reason for poor showings by Tarver post Rocky and Jones Jnr post Boo-iz fight.

Does Byrd loosing 40 pounds and having a face like he's in a death camp make success at 175 more or less likely? Do you have any prediction or idea as to what sort of effect this has on the body?

[Ron Lipton]

This is almost a shocking photo of Chris Byrd from fightnews.com reporting his loss of 40 pounds.

Ron - Weight cutting has been most recently cited as the reason for poor showings by Tarver post Rocky and Jones Jnr post Boo-iz fight.

Does Byrd loosing 40 pounds and having a face like he's in a death camp make success at 175 more or less likely? Do you have any prediction or idea as to what sort of effect this has on the body?

Reply: It does not work for everyone, but like Jim Jeffries said, "You dig your grave with your teeth," eating very badly. Chris Byrd looks just great but he could never break an egg with a punch. He looks like he has a bit of chemical help also, as we all remember his build from before. He never had arms like that or was ripped like that and do accomplish it so fast, meaning not the weight loss but that extreme muscle developement, it really looks like he had some help there.

Lets see what happens. Living clean, training hard and eating right has no substitute. We all saw the IBF medical report on Roy Jones Jr, Holyfield's been caught, and it mars their achievements tremendously if you want to be honest about it. Totally unfair advantage just like in baseball. When they went off the juice you can see the change in their builds by far.

Flat as piss on a plate.

[doomeddisciple]

"Flat as piss on a plate" - I like that even better than our local saying of "Flat out like a lizard drinkin'"

I'm genuinely interested to see what sort of power he has at 175.

[Chris Nagel]

Hi Ron, I hope you're doing well these days. Anyways, I have a question that I've been wanting to ask you for a while now. Could you share your experience or what it's like doing fight choreography for a movie?

How does it differ from working one on one with one of your fighters, and what's it like working with movie people?

[Ron Lipton]

Hi Ron, I hope you're doing well these days. Anyways, I have a question that I've been wanting to ask you for a while now. Could you share your experience or what it's like doing fight choreography for a movie?

How does it differ from working one on one with one of your fighters, and what's it like working with movie people?

Reply:

Hi Chris,

doing fight choreography was very rewarding for me in many ways, financially, resume wise, and seeing my work acknowledged favorably. Additionally, seeing my actor-students receiving great accolades in the NY Times, Daily News, NY Post, Amsterdam News, and boxing magazines was an added happiness for me.

For example in the Play, "Ali," which was written and owned by Geoffrey Ewing an accomplished actor who won the Obie Award for his performance in 1992.

On November 16, 1992 I won the Audelco Award for the Boxing Choreography presented to me by the late and great Choreographer and dancer Gregory Hines, presented to me at City College in NY.

Ali himself came to the play and sat with me in the front row, tears coming down his eyes seeing Geoffrey perform. Ali, said to me in person and in print,"Ron, The Boxing was perfect, you sure know me." It was beautiful.
I have that on film too and that piece was televised on cable TV, it is one of my proudest pieces of film.

While I was working 16 hours a day 6 days a week for a year and a half on "Muhammad Ali, The Whole Story," The 6 hour VHS collection which later went to DVD, as the Senior Boxing Consultant with screen credit, Geoffrey Ewing one of the stars of the TV Soap, "One Life to Live," and a movie actor asked me to train him to portray Ali for this show which would tour the USA and England.

I agreed but learned Geoffrey had no money to pay me and had never thrown a punch before, he was a college graduate, and was a former baseball player from Minnesota.
He was 6'2" 205lbs ripped and muscular but TOTALLY non violent, great sense of humor and never had a fight in his life and of course knew nothing about boxing except his adoration of Ali.

His good buddy Mike Hodge, the extremely famous TV commercial actor had a house in Harlem NY where Geoffrey was staying before he got married. I trained him there hours each day, sleeping over, then he would come to my apartment in Walden NY with my kids and me and sleep there while I trained him in a boxing gym owned by my buddy who used to be a bouncer with me in night clubs.

Well, it was gut busting work but I turned him into Muhammad Ali, good enough to make Ali cry with appreciation and love. That was my reward.

When we won the awards and the show toured with success, Geoffrey would send me checks, which I never asked for or expected. We are good buddies to this day from the day we met in 1991. He later became a Correction Officer with me teaching him how to shoot so he could pass the Academy.
Thorough Geoffrey I met his wonderful wife and kids and his whole family which has enriched my life.

Then the play went to Coconut Grove Florida at the Coconut Grove Playhouse. I became part of the casting process and interviewed every actor who auditioned for the part of Ali, when Geoffrey was committed elsewhere. The people who ran the world famous Coconut Grove Playhouse contracted me to pick and train the actor who would perform Ali.
If you saw "Night in the City," with Robert DeNiro, the actor Mitch Cunningham who played the NYC tough guy who caused Jack Warden's on screen character to have a heart attack in a fist fight with him, came to the audition and I had a wonderful time with him and became friends.

We opted for David Roberson who had a nice on screen role in the "Insider" with Al Pacino, as a bodyguard for Russel Crowe's character. David also a college graduate who appeared with Wesley Snipes and Woody Harrelson in "White Men Can't Jump," as one of the big basketball players, was trained exclusively by me to play Ali.

I lived and trained with him for months in 1994 and he was such a smash hit that Ferdie Percheco, Ali's fight Doctor said the choreography was so close to Ali he recommended me to do the Ali movie, which went to my good buddy Angelo Dundee, starring Will Smith. That is another story.

Anyway, training the actor hours each day was my job and directing the play was Jeffrey Moss's job in Florida. We trained like demons and I choreographed it cue to cue as they say until it went like clockwork involving many of Ali's big fights.

We ran into Sly Stallone at Fudruckkers down there and Lanie Kazan appeared the same night as the plaly, and Madonna, Kazan, and others came to the show. They loved it and it did well with rave reviews.

Training a fighter who responds to my type of arduous training is a lot easier than training an actor who has never thrown a punch before. It was brutal, staying in the theater while it was sunny outside, from 7AM to 9PM at night with a break for lunch.

I have trained and worked as a bodyguard for other actors as I have a NY State Armed Guard License, and have written a screen play which I sold long ago, coming into contact with Alex Kitman Ho who did so many great movies and an off shoot of his company. A lot of this will be in my book which I am writing, but in finishing, it was a pleasure always to meet these talented people who appreciated the technical experience I have amassed in strange places in my life's journey.

I appreciate their talents very much and ws privileged to work with some of them and meet people like Tony LoBianco who was interested in my script and became a dear friend. Meeting them made me appreciate how hard actors work, as hard as fighters and sometimes more.

best,
Ron

[Ron Lipton]

I just learned that my good buddy who I fought a war with in West Orange, former 5 time NJ Golden Glove champ Richie Gonzalez died. One of the nicest guys ever, such a sweet person, such a gentleman, the best.

God rest your soul, my dear brother.

Ron

[Chris Nagel]

Thanks a lot Ron for sharing those experiences with us. What an amazing treasure to give to give to a friend.

It must've been quite a sight to take a seat in the audience, and watch all the work that you guys put into getting everything right unfold beautifully on stage.

By the way I'm not familiar with fight scenes in a play. Did they set up a boxing ring on stage to do the big fight scenes?

Thanks again Ron, and God bless your good friend.

[Ron Lipton]

They had everything on stage to recreate it all. That is where the sound, sets, props, lighting and direction come into play.

[10-8]

Ron, as senior boxing consultant what exactly did you do for ALI: THE WHOLE STORY ? Thanx.

Bill

[Juan C Ayllon]

Here's an article Ron wanted posted about his late friend.

R.I.P.,



Juan

[Ron Lipton]

Ron, as senior boxing consultant what exactly did you do for ALI: THE WHOLE STORY ? Thanx.

Bill

Hi Bill,

Director's International, the original producers of "Muhammad Ali, The Whole Story, were putting together the huge project of interviewing many people who interacted with Ali in his life and of getting original footage of him at the time, along with the background of his fights, opponents and political and sports figures who Ali impacted.

Dr. Robert Spiegelman, Oliver Stone's research editor for JFK, had interviewed Ali, who told him in depth about our relationship in training camp, how I met him before he was reallly famous and finally my involvement in getting Ali aboard to help with the Carter case. They had put Ali up in a Town House on W11th street in NYC, and he asked to have me brought in.

They wanted me as a boxing historian and former fighter who knew most all his opponents personally to craft the boxing questions, personal questions,
for all the interviews and to travel with them to talk with, meet and prep the boxing people involved. Additionally I was to create and pick the sequences of footage to be edited with the Avid computer while working with Leon Gast, who won the Oscar for "When We Were Kings," on some of the boxing stuff he was working on.

Every fight sequence was gone over by me and they wanted original commentary which I wrote for every fight, later another company took over when the Brits went over budget and changed some things but I got my full screen credit as Senior Boxing Consultant from Director's International.

I traveled with Ali to homeless shelters, to Joe Frazier's gym, to the celebration of his 20th anniversary of the Frazier fight at The Hotel Atop The Belleview, and the stories of these travels and the unusual things that happened will be in my book. Ali made sure I was at his side constantly, sitting next to him on the dais, and for a year and a half we did everything together. I worked with Wali Muhammad, aka Walter Youngblood everyday who loved what I was doing with the opponents and fight stuff.

Robert Spiegelman did a great job, along with so many other talented people.

My encounters with his opponents like Archie Moore and others are worthy of a book in itself while I was alone with them interviewing them.

[10-8]

Wow. I always wondered who knows which clips are the best.

The Manilla montage was excellent and the inclusion of the complete Foreman fight was great as well.

There were so many great moments and performances that also could have been included like the Shavers fight, the domination of Quarry in the rematch etc....It must be tough to edit these things down .

I should mention that the quality of video for Norton III was the best I have ever seen from that fight. Do you know why film was shown from Frazier II instead of the better quality video?

Bill

PS: I haven't forgot about the Larry Scott video. I will get it to you but my computer dumped and I lost all my email contacts. Send me your address and I'll write it down this time and remember I move slow! I do remember the Monkees wrote a song about where you live!

wross1@cogeco.ca

[Ron Lipton]

Wow. I always wondered who knows which clips are the best.

The Manilla montage was excellent and the inclusion of the complete Foreman fight was great as well.

There were so many great moments and performances that also could have been included like the Shavers fight, the domination of Quarry in the rematch etc....It must be tough to edit these things down .

Reply: Thank you pal, I felt I knew what was best and I wanted to include everything you mentioned, then a Japanese company took over, then they sold it again.

I should mention that the quality of video for Norton III was the best I have ever seen from that fight. Do you know why film was shown from Frazier II instead of the better quality video?

Reply: Another company took over and if I was there it would be like you were there, what the zone guys like I like, lika onna biga family.

Bill

PS: I haven't forgot about the Larry Scott video. I will get it to you but my computer dumped and I lost all my email contacts. Send me your address and I'll write it down this time and remember I move slow! I do remember the Monkees wrote a song about where you live!

wross1@cogeco.ca

Thanks buddy,
10-4 to 10-8

Ron

[Ron Lipton]

I saw Chris Byrd fight tonight and from what I saw on TV, he did not use steroids. The live shot of him was much more revealing than the photos.
The poor guy had nothing left, his legs looked terrible with no strength.

Those low shoe styles make thin legs look worse, the high sock, high boxing shoe looks better as to style.

I was shocked at how weak he was.

[10-8]

Thanks buddy,

10-4 to 10-8

Ron

10-8 is 10-4 on your 10-20.

[10-8]

http://ca.youtube.com/profile_videos...ossenamait&p=r

Ron, I don't know if you're familiar with this guy or some of his unique training methods for developing functional strength and punching power for boxing.

Check out some of his videos and see what you think. He's not a very big guy but displays some impressive strength and respectable punching power.

[walshb]

He's an ex boxer I think and has been around on youtube a while now.
Very effective he is...rossboxing.com

[Ron Lipton]

I saw his videos and I thank you gentleman.

He is a bit younger than me, and I respect his intensity.

I don't know how successfull he was as an actual fighter in the ring. He certainly got himself into good shape.

I like some of his training methods, he is a Ron Lipton kind of guy, I was a bit more intense in my training methods with one shot punching power in actual combat, but I like his dedication and spartan application.

Good stuff.

Ron

[Ron Lipton]

I agree Ted, it does affect one's performance and power if the drop is too drastic. Like falling from the MGM's Twilight Zone Tower of Terror and jumping out to fight, just too much of a fall.

[Mike DeLisa]

Ron is too kind to tell you but this guy http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFfy9...eature=related

Has horrible hand positions for his left hook to the heavy bag. He also throws more of what the old-timers would call a swing, rather than a true hook.

He does seem to hit rather hard, so kudos to him. His right hand seems good and true, and he keeps his elbow pointed down, which is a key (although in the first sequence of nrapid shots you can see that elbow coming up.).

A guy like this is dangerous, of course but very beatable, so I would be surprised if in active competition he did very well.

Put it this way, if he came at Ron with that slapping left hook, we'd be seeing clips if another 16-second kayo.

I write the above not to criticize the fighter, but to point out that there are fundamental things in boxing that everyone misses. The beauty of the CBZ I always felt was the merging of old-school knowledge with current technology and theory.

But no matter how hard you hit or how conditioned you are, if you walk in and start a left hook that another fighter can step inside of with a right hand it is lights out.

Of course, you have to have the balls to step inside of tha wrecking ball . . . .

[wildhawke11]

A punch bag don't hit back. Entirely a different story when a guy is weaving and ducking in front of you looking for that one opening that will put you lights out.

[Ron Lipton]

Thank you,

I watched the video and Ross is in great shape and trains old school like I do with modern methods thrown in.

He gets off some good speed and power shots pouring it on which is what I did too in all my fights. I learned a lot in all my bouts and street fights and I think my strongest point was I was good in shootouts and saw openings and had the hand speed and one shot power to capitalize on it instantly.

It always amazes me what boxing fans can see sometimes, the fine nuances we miss while watching the big picture. Someone that sees these things is very valuable in analysis.

Ross and I emailed each other on Myspace, and I like his discipline and hard training. He uses the ropes like me, and I like the sledgehammer too as does Rocky and Kelly Pavlik.

[10-8]

Ron is too kind to tell you but this guy http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFfy9...eature=related

Has horrible hand positions for his left hook to the heavy bag. He also throws more of what the old-timers would call a swing, rather than a true hook.

He does seem to hit rather hard, so kudos to him. His right hand seems good and true, and he keeps his elbow pointed down, which is a key (although in the first sequence of nrapid shots you can see that elbow coming up.).

A guy like this is dangerous, of course but very beatable, so I would be surprised if in active competition he did very well.

Put it this way, if he came at Ron with that slapping left hook, we'd be seeing clips if another 16-second kayo.

I write the above not to criticize the fighter, but to point out that there are fundamental things in boxing that everyone misses. The beauty of the CBZ I always felt was the merging of old-school knowledge with current technology and theory.

But no matter how hard you hit or how conditioned you are, if you walk in and start a left hook that another fighter can step inside of with a right hand it is lights out.

Of course, you have to have the balls to step inside of tha wrecking ball . . . .

Mike, that is probably why this guy put an "ATTENTION: This is NOT a skill training session" tag on the video. It's merely some drill samples. I've seen Foreman hit the bag in his prime and he looks ponderous, clumsy and funamentally awkward but I sure wouldn't want to get hit by him. Ali wasn't exactly fundamentally sound in terms of power and levarge when he hit the bag either.

I think it's just a demonstration. I wouldn't read too much into whether or not this guy did very well in competition based on loading a few shots on the heavybag.

[Juan C Ayllon]

But no matter how hard you hit or how conditioned you are, if you walk in and start a left hook that another fighter can step inside of with a right hand it is lights out.

Of course, you have to have the balls to step inside of tha wrecking ball . . . .

--Mike DeLisa

That remark reminded me of last Friday Night Fights on ESPN2, in which previously undefeated cruiserweight prospect Aaron Williams got caught with his hands down. The fight went downhill very quickly for him after that.

[Ron Lipton]

There are some good points made here and I have spent a lifetime studying these things and try to pass them on to fighters I train.

When I saw the Russel Crowe movie, I think it was called "An Extraoridinary Mind" the illuminating scene which was cinematically delicious was when the complicated equations on a blackboard became crystal clear to his vision and he saw the puzzle being solved before his eyes with his rare insight.

One punch with exquisite timing and accuracy combined with power and hand speed skillfully delivered changes it all in the twinkling of an eye.

The great battles of attrition with the Marcianos, Fraziers, Basilios, and all the lighter fighters too are exciting and we love them, but the punishment taken is not good for anyone in that ring.

Long ago I had to find out if I could take it and I realized that conditioning is just about everything but there was more to it.

It would depress me hearing that certain guys were heralded as the greatest punchers yet in many of their fights, could not get the guy out of there.
Look at Shavers V Lyle, Jesus how much can an athlete take in there and why could not Shavers end it for Lyle with one shot.

Color me crazy but it is because he did not hit him hard enough. Is he one of the best one shot punchers, yeah, but many guys took it so how hard does someone have to hit. I saw guys go the distance with Hurricane Carter and could not believe my eyes including shots taken by Joey Archer.

I came up with a method of punching in the trenches, and countering with great speed once the great punches have been developed individually.
I have only had a few students over the years who were able to do it my way. Yet, each one hit much harder when I was done with them.
It takes total dedication to training and diet, and an extra hour or so in the gym with me each day, but it has never failed me in a fight although I don't think God is proud when we hurt someone. I know I am not.

Conditioning like I saw Ross do is very important and creates the kind of body I can teach this to. DLH's skill for example is based on his successfull way of fighting, and he was great taking out the early guys like Ruelas and the others with snap and flash.

Now to beat a PBF, fighters like this have to become stronger and add Lion power to their older frames and learn from people who are great punchers, not the same old thing over and over.

When I want to learn how to be a sneaky puncher I go to Holly Mims, when I want a great short right hand, I go to Rubin Carter and on and on.
Study your boxing heroes closely and you can steal the steel off the battlefield.

Then create the body to deliver the magic, if one is in earnest to be the best in boxing they can be.

I have a boy Marcus Glen Randle coming over from England in July to train with me, a tough amateur fighter who wants to hit harder. I arranged for him to stay nearby and I will work with this future champ closely. In the meantime a young heavyweight Detroy Jones and Marcus Clark a light heavy are coming along nicely too.

It takes time and dedication.

[Juan C Ayllon]

One of Ron Lipton's trained boxers (left) "punching through" his target in a live match

All kidding aside, I would enjoy seeing Ron given a chance to train some top-flight guys. That would be a good thing!

[Ron Lipton]

Wow,

Talk about follow through!