Thats a good question PeterD
Thats a good question PeterD
Hi JaKob,Originally Posted by JaKob
he was a tremendous fighter, with both hands, and I mean both hands big time. I refereed him twice and his left hook almost killed both guys. Thank Christ I got to both in time, although one was out cold before he hit the floor.
The left hook on him was one of the hardest I have ever seen, sharp and heavy, some wallop in that left. His right hand did in Michael Moorer so fast it is just an incredible KO. The job he did on Ruiz almost killed him thanks to the horrific Tony Perez getting there so late as usual, like he did in Cooney V Norton and Mercer V Morrison.
Getting too fat ruined Tua just like it has Arreola. Tua had it all including a set of the most powerful thighs and calves a boxer could have.
With the right diet and the right fight teachers he could have taken the high road all the way. His weight problems among other things ruined it for a guy who had all the tools and poise.
No apologies necessary Peter.Originally Posted by PeterD
Any training camp I was ever in where I got paid, Ali, Carter, Tiger, I always tried to fight as hard as I could. Even with Ali I threw everything as fast and hard as I could to give him work. With Carlos Ortiz you fought or you died, same with Tiger and Carter, you fought or they would crush you.
As to others just kidding around stuff is a waste of time. I'm all for practicing what the trainers tell you if its a technique to work on, like turning or jabbing at Tiger but he would make you fight, if you boxed him and he would break off punches into you on the ropes, no time for bullshit when a big fight is coming up.
In the gyms in Newark and Orange NJ where Galento was or the Solar gym where Griffith trained, it was all out war in there. If you are going to just move with a guy thats fine, in the gym, but once warmed up I had to fight to get my space. Another guy I had to fight for my life with I just ran into at my trainer's funeral, Top 5 lightweight contender Lloyd Marshall who fought Laguna, another champ I boxed with in NYC. Lloyd would kill you if you did not fight back, he was great.
I am not saying those Kronk gym wars are good for you, I'm not, I guess it depends on who you are in there with, what they are paying you for etc.
My luck they all tried to kill me and steamroll me and I had to move and fight.
It paid off in my own competitive fights but my damn body still hurts me from those days, headaches, hands, back, etc.
Hard road to go.
Thank you, Ron. Boxing is an incredibly tough sport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BkeuntHRpMOriginally Posted by Ron Lipton
This is David tua in his most recent fight that he won be KO in 2 rounds. Living here in NZ and being a part of the boxing community i have been following his training efforts closely. Its known here that David trained harder than he has for quite some time with the settling of personal issues, with the main focus directed towards conditioning. He managed to drop in excess of 50 pounds. With the experience and knowledge of the technical aspects you could no doubt see the fight very differently to myself. If you could comment on how he looked in this performance, and the referee's performance in regards to the stoppage which was a point of controversy here in NZ.
Last edited by JaKob; 10-09-2009 at 09:45 PM.
Originally Posted by JaKob
I watched it all. David needs to get down to about 215-220lbs and he will again be able to effectively execute against the Klits, otherwise he gets served by a good tall fighter like the Klits or what happened to him with Lennox.
If you see him tell him Ron Lipton said hello, and if he is a free agent I can get his body into the condition as a supplemental trainer that he should have been in years ago. Please give him my website.
http://www.ronliptononline.com/, also a link to some video,
Remind him that I refereed him twice on the Holyfield v Mercer card V the above mentioned Dan Morgan and in the Civic Center in Poughkeepsie NY against Rick Hunnicut.
He still remains one of the all time show stoppers in his victories over Ruiz and Michael Moorer. I put that up in the mind blowing class of Hurricane Carter stopping Griffith and Florentino Fernandez.
The shots against Moorer were stupendous.
Now David needs an old school trainer to get him ripped and in A+ condition.
If he wants to navigate the website that is up to him. His abdominal area and the lack of quality muscle that is functional for boxing strikes will keep him in a quagmire and rut of only being able to perform against opponents like this. You saw it happen to Cristobal Aerola.
The referee with what looks like a hairpiece, was heralded by the announcer as a great ref. Sorry I don't see that, I don't see decisive decisions, and I saw a Tony Perez let him get killed kind of slow reaction performance. Very bad. Calling time out was totally out of place and he not only ruined the fight but caused the opponent to come out for more totally unnecessary punishment and injury.
Terrible job, sorry but thats the truth. I wish I could have refereed in New Zealand but all these places are very territorial with their refs no matter how bad they are, the alphabet boys stick in their pals for a free trip.
It is one of the worst parts of boxing. Just ask Gerald McClellan about the WBC clown they put in for his fight with Nigel Benn.
Get back to me if you see David, I wish him the best, and I could get him into real shape before its too late in his career totally. HE HAS to lose more weight and HE HAS to work out differently to be faster again.
He was always one of the best hitters, but he has to change his diet and training.
He is devastating against tall guys. I refereed him against 6'7" Dan Morgan but he was not a good tall man. It was on the Holyfield V Mercer undercard in Atlantic City.
That's funny as hell Ron because that's what I was thinking. Funny that in this day and age the young guys shave their heads and want the bald look while old guys want to wear bad hair pieces as if they're fooling anyone.Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
Tua to me looked like a smaller but still soft looking version of his former self. Having said that his hands were pretty fast when he went for the kill mixed his shots well and the explosive power as always is definitely there. It's always tough to gauge against such an ordinary opponent though.
I can clearly envision either of the 'Brothers K' sticking out the jab, using their reach and boring the pants off us all on the way to a decision. I also remember some of Tua's aggression being negated when he tasted the power of Lennox. I'm not sold on Tua throwing caution to the wind if one of the Klits starts landing hard, solid punches either. I'd love to see David turn the trick but if the fight was made tomorrow I don't think I'd put any money on him just yet.
Ron, you must shake your head in disbelief that at your age you are in better shape than professional athletes who stare the golden goose in the eye yet don't have the discipline to even train like a professional athlete should.
When it comes to heavyweight boxing, outside of darts and poker, I can think of no other professional sport where the top guys are so routinely undisciplined and out of shape.
R. Yes indeed, sad but oh so true.Originally Posted by 10-8
Here's some pics Ron had shot of himself at age 63. Impressive, eh?
You said it. Those cats don't look soft.
I hope all is well. Do you have any fights for your guys in the near future? I just thought I'd give you an update on the fitness. I've been working out dilligently for the past several months. Pushups and situps every night at the gym along with about ten minutes on the rope. I've lost about 25 lbs over the past year and feel great. Much in part is thanks to you I might add.
I just purchased that kettlebell I was talking about a few months ago and had my first workout lasty night. My legs and shoulders are feeling it today. I'm starting pretty slow, but it is a great tool and I can't wait to get more familiar with it.
I imagin ite will be a while before I get as good as these guys.
All the best!
I am so happy that I was able to help you in any way at all.
You certainly sound like you are on the right track and that is a great weight loss with what sounds like real quality muscle.
KB are a formidable art and can be a great asset if done correctly. I have some good friends who are experts in that field and I respect them all.
Send me a picture when you are ready.
I am teaching an extra two classes and preparing for lectures but staying in good shape too.
I hope to meet you one day in person, it would be my honor.
PS My good buddy Bryant Pappas, who I train scored another KO on Saturday. He is now 10-0 with 10 KO's.
That's great news about Pappas. Such aclassy guy. I hope he has the tools to go far with you and make you a household name someday.
The Kettlebell is a really convient tool for me as I find it hard to get to the gym on a steady basis, and to be honest, I can't seem to get the muscle development I had when I was younger from simply doing just pushups and running. Maybe it was the fact that I worked my arse off back then, and now I'm a teacher who spends too uch damn time in front of the computer screen!
Regardless, I'm feeling good, and hope to build up the old muscles in the coming months.
Take care as always and best of luck to you and Pappas!
At the table with me was Wilbert "Skeeter" McClure, Emile Griffith and the President of Beacon Pictures Army Bernstein. Little did I know I would be tesitfying for Joey Giardello in a lawsuit against Beacon Pictures many years later. The long and winding road has many turns.
I know that many years ago you were affiliated with the great Izzy Zerling of G&S fame. I hadn't thought of him in a few years, but found myself on Essex Street a few days ago and walked past the place. I peeked in and saw a middle-aged guy behind the counter that could be Izzy's son. There would be no polite or kind way to do it, so I couldn't ask him--but I will ask of you: Is Mr. Zerling still with us?
The few times we needed trunks and gloves from him made for many an interesting conversation when I went to pick them up. This guy was sharp as a tack then (mid-1990's), and could go through a litany of great NYC fighters and trainers while talking to you, and NEVER seeming to be a name-dropper, LOL!
Thanks, Ron...hope all is well, and that you are hard at work with the book.
Izzy sadly is no longer with us, he passed away long ago. His son should remember my name, I fought over 70 bouts for his father and they were no joke, hard fights, in Al Roon's Health club and the Land and Homeowners Association Club house in Lake Hopatcong NJ. Those were harder fights for me than competiton bouts at times against the best in the tri state area.
Gaspar Ortega worked for him behind that little counter and he handed me many a robe and trunks I had made up there for my fights.
Here are two David Tua fights I refereed.Originally Posted by JaKob
Ron- Posted a question to you in the Foreman thread
No problem, I will get right to it.
thanks for writing,
Thanks for your response. It's actually sparked a bit of a friendly debate!
It is sometimes said that referees here in the UK stop fights too quickly. Is that your perception of UK referees and what do you think of UK referees generally?
I guess I need to see more of them. In the past there was a rich tradition of refereeing with the referee being the sole decider of who wins. Harry Gibbs set a precendent for many.
I did not like the refereeing of some of them, and dealt with them in person.
One in particular was very harsh, spoke to the fighters like dogs, and went out of his way to be disrespectful to them, being overly officious, and talking extra tough to them. It turned me off in addition to some behind the scenes behavior that was very objectionable with this chaps transparent effort to be a tough guy in the ring. Total turnoff. He was linked deeply with the BBBOC, so he got plenty of assignments no matter how bad he was in the ring. Out of shape, pot belly, slow, gruff and unprofessional. Sorry but thats the way it was.
As to the rest, I am sure there are many good ones out there, but the main ones I saw get a lot of assignments with the WBO, WBC etc were absolutely sub par, films don't lie. Yet boxing magazines, friendly writers, do not seem to know what they are seeing. Incredible really.
More YOU TUBE VIDEOS:
Do you know Tiger/Carter is now on Youtube ?
I saw it quite a long time ago, it is silent. I remember when I was boxing with Rubin, I called up Jimmy Jacobs who I knew and he gave me the two rounds I wanted, rounds 2&4 with the knockdowns, in silent 16mm film which I still have that I bought from Winick fight films. I studied those intently and learned quite a bit from that footage. Amazing how Carter survived and had a brief moment of his own in the 7th round.
I sat 2nd row ringside for that one and I will NEVER forget it. The anticipation level in the old Garden among the real hardcore boxing guys was at the highest pitch you can imagine for this shootout.
Carter was on Friday night fights with Brian Kenny and Brian asked Rubin what was your toughest fight and Carter unbelievably answered Holy Mims or George Benton. He usually answers my toughest fight was with myself.
To boxing fans it was Dick Tiger hands down!
I just watched it and was amazed ... all you say about Tiger is correct. I have no idea why he does not have more KO's on his record as he is so brutally strong and his power explosive. How Carter survived those knockdowns is beyond me ... they were monster shots ... Tiger is in the all time middeweight elite and would have been a handle for anyone be it Monzon, Hagler or Robinson ...
R: Last month Tiger's daughter Justina Ihetu visited me, I have it on film and will put it up on You Tube with a link here if I can. I am trying to help her get something started in Nigeria to honor her father as per her wishes. She wanted a gymnasium or park named after him which he richly deserves.Originally Posted by HE Grant
In those days he was fighting the toughest people in the world as was Carter, Griffith and all the other top 10 guys. I sat ringside for that fight in the 2nd row one row behiind my customary ALWAYS MSG ringside seat for every fight and prelim. The left hook wallops in the 2nd and 4th were thunderous and heavy and splattered him. The iron balls to get up and take the follow up chop downs were amazing.
Tiger was stronger than LaMotta, Zale, Walker, Ketchel, and at his best, in a shootout would beat them all including Cerdan. Tiger was not at his best in fighting Torres, the Tiger that beat Gonzalez, Carter, Fernandez, Fullmer, Hank, had a look to his body like he was carved out of stone. He could be outboxed for sure by Robinson, Griffith, Archer, but to FIGHT him was another story.
Even more amazing is after all of that Carter did not run, but stayed right in front of him all night and came blazing back in the 7th briefly but it was Tiger all the way. Both were super athletes until the cancer lurking within the great man took him down slowly but surely, and drink, smoking and loss of focus diminished Carter's once super striking power.
Fistic magic is fleeting and the vessel that contains it must remain pure to be functional at the highest level. Partying, drinking, stress, lack of training discipline whittle away at a man, until other mediocore fighters escape their clutches.
Dick Tiger's daughter Justina Ihetu visiting with Ron Lipton Sept 2009