I also think Savagery is not something you learn from your trainer. You are either born with it or you don't have it.
I also think Savagery is not something you learn from your trainer. You are either born with it or you don't have it.
I hope you understand that I was joking when I mentioned Angelo Dundee. I wasnít criticizing him.Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
Normally when you get a trainer the trainer demands 100% commitment. You do exact what I say or I leave. I remember Eddie Futch making such demand for Riddick Bowe who had a reputation of being lazy. This attitude is in every sport the same. But in the case of Foreman or Ali the trainers seem to adjust. Working with guys like this must be to attractive to let it pas.Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
By the way, I know a funny story about getting a boxing trainer. From my city Leeuwarden comes Rudie Koopmans who was five years European light heavyweight champion. In 1980 he was preparing for his worldtitle shot against Eddie Mustafa Muhammad. For this occasion he took an American trainer. And it wasn’t just someone he took, it was the former trainer of Ken Norton. Later it turned out he hadn’t been Norton’s trainer at all. He was only an assistant of Norton’s trainer. How about that?
Last edited by Theo Netherland; 03-22-2010 at 11:07 AM.
Hello Mr. Lipton.I was wondering if you could answer a question for me:
You know the defences that Winky,Marlon Starling and Clottey use:Hands up tight guard.Why don't alot more boxers employ that type of defense and why was Marlon starling more effective with his defense then say Clottey?
Reply: Good question and my pleasure to answer.Originally Posted by triplejab34
I spent some time with Marlon at the Concord hotel before his bout with Tom Molinares and the bizarre ending to that bout. I played ping pong vigorously with him as I was really a Forest Gump caliber player but with a slam game and fast serve with zero spin on my serve. I did the same with Slim Spinks (Michael) in training camp before the Tyson bout, and both men and I had one game after another driving each other crazy with our reflexes, the crowds in camp watching us in awe slamming like an Olympic ping pong death match splitting wins left and right.
But damn, I watched Moochie in camp with his hands held high in that tight defense, open gloves, ear muffs a la Michael Watson in his match with Nigel Benn.
The thing is this, it really works to protect your face and temples from shots landing on the gloves and the bottom of your forearms which we also teach in self defense tactics in police work.
I train some NY State Troopers who are self defense instructors for their department along with other officers for locale departments who use this technique to ward off roundhouse type attacks from attackers.
The defense utilized by Michael Watson against Nigel Benn was superlative in that Michael before his terrible injuries, was such a well conditioned boxer he was able to strike hard while blocking and had great timing and retaliatory abilities.
Same with Marlon especially showcased in his bout with the dynamic Mark Breland.
Yet Clottey was too defense minded and like some of my Jamaican brothers would say, Clottely fought more like a "Blood Clot," with no retaliation and the rest of the Jamaican adjectives, I shall leave out, like P...y Cloth."
Blocking in that manner is effective but you must FIGHT BACK.
I just finished watching that Tiger-Hank fight. Every Dick Tiger fight I watch, I am amazed at how good the guy was. What impresses me most is his left hook, which is thrown so often, so quick and he is always back into position after he throws it.
Where do you rate is left hook amongst the all time greats. And if have the time can you break it down for me?
Originally Posted by Off The River
R. Hi Brendan, you question comes at an amazing time for me as to Tiger.
His style in every fine nuance imaginable is something I have studied, practiced and honed since I was boxing with him prior to the Giardello fight in 65. Now I am tasked in passing it on for a film project about Nigeria and the Tiger V Fullmer III bout called "Cloud of Hope."
Tiger was a fistic product of many Mentors and teachers in his journey from Africa to England and finally to the USA Men like Peter Banasko, Maurice Foran, Jimmy August, and his early ring experiences in Africa were very discouraging that Adeyinka Makinde so meticulously chronicled in his wonderful book. Yet Tiger kept learning and fighting.
I was very lucky to have spent a lot of time with him and the subtleties and integral parts of his entire repertoire that were honed in losing many fights early in his career were made known to me and that I can imitate.
He experienced som maddening and disappointing losses some of which were quite unjust. He always had that straight ahead I am going to knock you head off style but it was not yet refined and several boxers were able to handle him like Alan Dean, who Tiger later beat, and young Tommy West whose style gave him trouble and who was somewhat of a nemesis for him.
After Tiger beat Downes he still had to refine his style although he was becoming stronger. He had difficult times from 1953-59 and seem to be at his zenith from 1960-65 approx.
By now he was a fistic force, rock solid chin, iron body and he could break off punches to the head and body that were skeletal and organ destroying shots while absorbing counter attacks and punishment like eating candy.
His had movement, real pro feints and his timing for inside and outside fusillades was uncanny and fast The way he took out Gonzalez, Fernandez, beating Carter, Fullmer and Hank made him look a middleweight superman.
At his best his left hook was a one shot force and I rate it with the best ever,
he threw it relaxed with tremendous power and shoulder follow through, to the body and head, long or short if it hit anyone cleanly you were out of there. If you bent down to your right he would clip you with it, or if you pulled back the wrong way down you go. He doubled up on it to take out Jose Monon Gonzalez with perfect timing, he dropped Carter like a ton of bricks slamming it around his right glove and then down the middle on the second knockdown.
Leave him an opening, zig when you should have zagged, come up out of a weave within striking distance he would tear your head off.
Combined with his heavy right hand he would set you up for the hook like on the first Carter knockdown in the 2nd round, Tiger dipped, leaped in with a right, and then slammed the hook home, ....down he go.
His left hook was one of my favorites and I practice it in teaching all the time.
I rate it up there as one of the best of all time at 160lbs. Very HEAVY punch from him, very heavy, ponderous and bone crackling hook. Very dangerous.
Ron, I'm thoroughly enjoying watching the Dick Tiger fights that are uploaded on Youtube. I like the way on the inside that Dick would switch to the cross arm defence, bend at the waist and block body shots, with his chin tucked behind his shoulder. Very tough to catch clean.
Also in the Spider Webb KO, he reminds me of a young Joe Frazier when he catches Webb on the ropes for the last KD. With Webb bent over and Dick's wide stance and short two handed attack, elbows in tight he reminds me of Joe taking down Jimmy Ellis. Also the way he measures Webb's head with his shoulder/upper arm on the inside before teeing off.
A great KO.
Well put Bill,
he fought the toughest guys out there and handled them in shootouts like that.
Webb was one cagey veteran and got that cut eye TKO over Giardello.
I love watching those old fights. especially Tiger V Florentino Fernandez and Jose Gonzalez.
It is too bad the Tiger V Archer fight was not filmed, I sat first row ringside for $10, which was for a special event, two dollars over the usual $8 ringside at MSG. The Archer v Carter was not filmed either nor was MSG's Carter v Rodriquez. It is insane not to have someone film those fights let alone Graziano V Zale I and II.
It surprises me to this day that there were no knockdowns in both Tiger V Torres fights. Both men were so damn good and both good friends. I sat there for both of those fights
I'm just in awe of Tiger; his speed, power, irong chin and workrate all certainly make him one of the best middleweights I've seen. When I think of him and Hopkins, matching up, I see Hopkins fouling out from the pressure and sustained attack.
When you picked him to stop Hagler, I thought you were showing the early stages of alzheimer's disease .... I should have known better!
Every match I've watched of him thus far, has me dumbstruck with everyting about him, but that left hook! Man, so constant, fast and powerful. A thing of beauty. I can say he's about as underrated as a fighter get in my books.
10-8. I was thinking the same thing regarding his guard. I often wonder why we don't see that employed these days. It worked for Moore and Foreman as well.
What are your opinions on why the crab guard is not used these days?
Just as a side note, Tiger had always admired Archie Moore who used that defense, and he admired Ray Robinson very much, who attended some of his fights, and of course Hogan Kid Bassey his countryman who was there for Tiger as much as possible in support.
Tiger is brilliant. Could you imagine any Middleweight beating him in a shoot out?
I cannot. I define a shootout as going after him to knock him out and slug it out from the opening bell. Fullmer, Fernandez, Hank, Carter tried and could not, each one of them had to back off and move. Lamotta could not punch hard enough to hurt Tiger and the other strongmen of yore at 160lbs could not either. He took all of Hank, Carter and Fernandez shots and ate them up like candy to the body and head, and just kept blasting back.
Yep thats a shoot out Mr Lipton.
No one could live with Tiger in those conditions, in fact I think Hank did the best and he used some brilliant defensive moves in the pocket
Last edited by GPater11093; 04-14-2010 at 02:04 PM.
Mr Lipton, this was my last fight, Im in the red. What dya think
Last edited by GPater11093; 04-14-2010 at 02:03 PM.
I thought you won the fight, I liked your left hook to the body in the first round and some of your other body work. If you were training with me I could turn this around for you IF, IF, you really want to stick with boxing. Now remember this because I like you, why do I like you? I will tell you.
1. You are a brave, respectful young man. 2. You have much courage to get in there to begin with. 3. You have knowledge and respect for boxing history and are a student of the game.
If you were my son and I loved you like a son, I would not encourage you to keep boxing and taking one more shot to the head because of how short life itself is, and the prospects of school and study that can help and must help you find a trade to earn a living in.
The endless give and take in that ring between amateur fighters of basically EQUAL physicality becomes an endless battle of attrition where you live or in the NY Daily News GG.
Think of Bob Foster, the killer puncher facing his usurper Vincente Rondon a good fighter who beat good men. Once in the ring Foster destroyed him, destroyed Dick Tiger and then himself was destroyed by Frazier, Doug Jones and Ali.
You have to be a killer in there, with hand speed, freak power in both hands and the body and chin to survive the retaliation, OTHERWISE, too much punishment is taken, and you know what, it just ain't worth it to a smart young brave man like you. Have fun with it but do not stick with it.
Protect your mind from brain damage. Also get with my boxing bodybuilding program if you must continue to develop functional, usable boxing muscle.
Take 1 year off and train that body to build up every muscle group my way, then come back and try it, and knock these dude the fuck O.U.T.
You did well and I thought you won the fight, take care of yourself Greg,
you are a special brave warrior and I respect and like you.
That was fantastic advice to any young man, Ron. Can't tell you how deep and profound I found it to be. Boxing is good to a very, very few.
Thanks very much Mr Lipton, very sound advice. Don't worry about me Ron, as soon as I'm getting hit too much, I'm out of boxing. I look to make the most of it without taking damage, like you say.Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
You couldnt tell me your Boxing Bodybuilding Programme could you?
Thank you for writing that Dino.
send you E-mail to me again at RLipt8@aol.com
I will send you something.
Walsh, you must have judged at the Stadium!Originally Posted by walshb
Ron, suppose you have a son that canít choose between being a boxer or a UFC-fighter. What would you advise him?Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
honest answer after a lifetime in both, absolutely neither.
Study them all, stick to bodybuilding, stretching, boxing training try to learn it all, but don't risk you health by taking hard shots too often. I have supervised so much sparring in my life, pro fights as a referee, fought as a boxer and brother, blows to the head are not good for a productive life.
If you are doing well, knocking these guys out like Bryant Pappas and guys like him, roll with it until the wheels fall off, but being a great puncher does not always save you, look at Tommy Hearns now, good guy too.
I love boxing, Judo, MMA, studied it all, competed hard but still carry the signs of too many fights.
Not for a loved one.
Thanks for your answer Ron. It says a lot!
Last edited by Theo Netherland; 04-30-2010 at 09:09 AM.
Thanks for always answering my questions.I always wondered why the legs on an aging/shot boxer are usually the first things to go-I mean I could see if speed was the first thing to go due to age but it seems its the legs that go first in declining boxers.And are there any leg exercises that could slow that down?
You must keep the heart muscle strong to feed the big muscle groups and your diet must be one that keeps you clean inside so your blood is thin, pure and the legs remain flexible, strong, and have endurance.
Leg extensions done correctly(Adjusting your lifting point on the machine so that you avoid stress on the knees by placing the pad a big higher than your ankles) so that the knee ligaments and tendons are not weakened but made stronger, leg curls, horizontal leg presses, proper squats, roadwork, tread mill,
all help as do the other machines in the gym for cardio.
Stretching properly and always doing an exercise for the back of your legs to match the amount done for the front so that you have a proper balance of development, all help to avoid injury.
As you get older, you adjust and modify your routine, as to weight, sets and reps and listen to what your body tells you. Shadow boxing, practicing moving, pivoting, all help me to stay fast.
The calves should be worked with every leg workout and as long as you stay supple, stretch, make those legs work, whether its step ups, or squats, presses, walking, jogging etc they will stay young.
Ron: in your opinion will working grip strength increase your punching power?
As always, thanks for your time.
Yes, in conjunction with my power punching program it will, while maintaining hand speed, balance, torque and harnessing all the muscular power we work on into the strike. With proper gripping power, the hand, metacarpals and wrist to not break or fracture on the hardest of targets.
I am working on a DVD for sale to demonstrate this.
It has worked for me and ended many a fight very decisively and finally in the ring and out against much stronger and heavier "Antagonists."
Ron, would be kind enough to settle a friendly bet? What is the best way to avoid and counter a fighter with a good straight right -- in the ring or in the street? We both agreed to abide by your words. Thanks very much.
R. On the street the best counter for a right hand is to hit him first with yours, the hardest and fastest you can throw two or three times depending on which hand your desired target is closest too. If someone sets them self to hit me, or I feel the body language coming or an invasion of my body space, no man alive has ever got me first and never will. First, Fastest and Hardest and explain it all afterward.Originally Posted by Dino1