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Thread: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

  1. #2071
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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Ron, my uncle saw Ron Stander KO Shavers many years ago. He said he could not believe the shots Stander took in the early rounds. Stander must have been one tough guy. His fight against Frazier is on YouTube and he was truly fearless and had an incredible pain tolerance. No great fighter maybe, but a real warrior. Do you remember him?

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    I remember The "Council Bluff's Butcher" very well. He knocked out my old sparring partner and buddy "Wild Bill" Hardney who was in Rubin Carter's camp with me and who fought on amateur cards with me too. Ron Stander who must be around 67-68 years old now, was only about 5'10 or 5'11" and on or about his 10th pro bout stopped Shavers. His heyday was in the early 80's where he decisioned Thad Spencer and beat giant Jack O'Halloran who stopped Ali's brother Rudy Rachman Ali and of Superman the movie fame, he also beat Manuel Ramos and a guy who I had thought would go far when I used to see him at ringside fighting in the old MSG, Lee Carr.

    Ron gave it all he had against Smokin Joe and was stopped in 5 as Ken Norton did to him too. He ended up fighting too long being stopped by Gerrie Coetzee, Boone Kirkman and Scott Frank. The loss to Frank came around 1979 or 1980 when he was overweight and around 36 years old.

    Lets face it anyway you cut the cake this was one tough man with a lot of heart, I wonder how he is doing today and what he looks like, anyone have any pictures of Ron Stander and know how he is doing?

    best,
    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hi Ron, I would welcome your opinion, comments on this. Back around 1980 or so I was lucky enought to meet former champ Sandy Saddler at an amateur boxing show in Queens, NY. He was a real gentleman. I already mentioned on this board that he shocked me when he said that he thought Marciano would have beaten Foreman ("Both men would have gone down, but Rocky would be the one who got up"). Remember, he and Archie Moore were hired by Dick Sadler (Foreman's manage) to advise/teach George. Anyway, I also asked him who he thought was the most underrated champ and he immediately said "Walcott, he was very underrated as a puncher. He put Marciano and Louis on the floor.". At the end of the conversation he also said something to the effect of "Walcott would have given Foreman fits". I am ashamed to say, I know little about Walcott other than he was on the receiving end of one of Rocky's best SuzieQs. Was Walcott the puncher Saddler said he was? Also, just as an FYI, Saddler said that for many of Georgle's early fights, the only training he did was roadwork, hitting the heavy bag for 1/2 hour, and sparring four to six, 4-minute rounds. He said George never did ab work, etc. but he did chop wood very much. By the way, I can't overstate what a gentleman Mr. Saddler was and how polite and respectfull he was to my wife.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    I found this from a couple of years back about Ron Stander:

    Ron Stander, Still Making the Rounds for Friends in Need

    ©by Leo Adam Biga

    Originally published in the New Horizons

    Far from the spotlight he inhabited when he fought for the world heavyweight boxing title 35 years ago, Ron “The Bluffs Butcher” Stander goes about his daily routine these days in relative obscurity. That’s fine with him. He had his moment in the sun. He’d rather be remembered anyway as a good man, a good father and a good friend than as a good fighter.

    “Yeah, right, that’s exactly it,” he said. “I just want to be a good person.”

    He lives a simple life, both by choice and circumstance. He may be poor in finances, but he’s rich in friends. Despite his own problems, he aids folks less well-off and able than him, often making the rounds to visit old pals, many of whom he knows “from boxing.” Some, like Tony Novak, Gabe Barajas and Art Hernandez, are ex-fighters. Novak and Hernandez sparred with Stander back in the day.

    Fred Gagliola coached a young Stander as an amateur Golden Gloves fighter. Maurice “Mad Dog” Vachon is an ex-pro wrestler quite popular here. Stander and Vachon know the highs and lows of life inside and outside the ring. Tom Lovgren was the matchmaker for many Stander fights and at one time managed him.

    Each man suffers some kind of health impairment or disability. All befriended Stander at one time or another and he’s never forgotten it.

    “They all helped me. Now I attempt to give back in some way. I like to help out. They were in my corner and now I’m in their corner,” said Stander, who variously does chores, runs errands and offers companionship for them.

    Lovgren is afflicted with multiple sclerosis. The effects of the advanced disease confine him to a wheelchair. When his wife Jeaninne broke a leg last winter she could not get her large husband out of his chair into bed.

    “So I called Ronnie and said, ‘Can you come down and help me into bed every night?’ — and he did,” Lovgren said. “He came down at 10:30 every night and put me to bed. I paid him, because he didn’t have to do that. He’s a good friend.”

    Not long ago Lovgren took a fall at home, unable to get up by himself or even with an assist from his petite wife. Enter Stander.

    “It was about 10 o’clock at night. I was beat, tired. I worked hard that day and I was all out of gas. I’d just had my first beer of the night when Jeaninne called. ‘Can you help out?’ I went down to their place. He was flat on the floor and I had to pick him up…and put him in his chair. It was a tough lift. Boy, he’s getting heavy. Probably weighs 250. Dead weight,” Stander said. “I about didn’t make it. Jeaninne had to get on his side and grab his pants and pull him up. We got him though.”

    Stander’s glad to help the man who so much did for him. Lovgren not only got him fights, but was part of the team that readied him for his May 25, 1972 title bout with champ Joe Frazier in a jam-packed Civic Auditorium. Lovgren prodded Stander to get in fighting trim and stay away from late night beer binges.

    “He would always get me to do the road work real good,” Stander said. “He’d take me running, count laps. He was a real disciplinarian. But fun, too. I respected him.”

    Before he challenged for the championship, Lovgren arranged what Stander called a “steppingstone” match with future contender Earnie Shavers. Considered one of the hardest punchers in the heavyweight division, Shavers’ blows “felt like getting hit by a night stick or a ball bat,” Stander said. “It was like a whip cracking at the end.” After a slow start that saw him get pummeled, he KO’d Shavers in the fifth. Shavers reportedly had to be carried off by his corner.

    That became Stander’s signature win. His most notable loss, of course, came in his title bid. After losing to Frazier, Stander sank into a deep depression and his career nose-dived. “I didn’t have any desire,” he said.

    Except when Lovgren got him a marquee match against former contender Ken Norton on the undercard of the Muhammad Ali-Jimmy Young bout. Norton won when the fight was stopped in the fifth due to cuts he opened up on Stander, who was prone to bleed, but to this day “The Butcher” feels he would have had a tiring Norton “out of there in another round or two.”

    Coulda’, woulda, shoulda’. “You can’t fight destiny” Stander said.

    Away from the ring, the fighter admires how Lovgren has never given up in his own battle with MS. Despite the debilitating disease, Lovgren has raised a family, worked, traveled and maintained his passion for sports, especially boxing.

    “He’s been an inspiration,” Stander said. “He’s paid his dues.”

    The other men Stander helps are inspirations to him, too.

    Former world middleweight contender Art Hernandez lost a leg after a freak fall from a roof, but he hasn’t let it stop him from living a life and enjoying his family. “I’ve got all the respect for him, too,” said Stander, who, like Lovgren, considers Hernandez to have been the best fighter, pound-for-pound, to ever come out of Nebraska. As an undersized but much quicker sparring partner, Hernandez used to frustrate Stander in the gym, confounding and evading the lumbering heavyweight. “I couldn’t hit him with a handful of rice,” Stander said.

    Stander admires too how “Mad Dog” Vachon has not allowed the mishap that cost him a leg to embitter him.

    “’Mad Dog’s’ a good guy,” he said. “He has a great attitude.”

    Through “Mad Dog” Stander met an array of pro wrestling legends, such as Andre the Giant. “When I shook his hand it was like grabbing a pillow,” he said.

    When Hernandez first got fitted with his prosthesis Stander brought him over to “Mad Dog’s” place so these two old warriors with artificial limbs would know they were not alone. The gesture touched the two men.

    “He did me a favor that day,” Hernandez said.

    “He’s got a heart of gold,” Vachon said. “He’s a very nice man. A real softee. He’s the kind of guy who would give you the shirt off his back.”

    Since suffering a series of strokes Fred Gagliola, the man who helped show Stander the ropes as an amateur, has trouble getting by.

    “I was just weeding in his yard the other day,” Stander said one summer morning outside the south downtown home of the man he calls Coach. “He can’t do much. I sweep and mop the floor for him.” “He cuts the grass, he throws out the garbage,” Coach said. “Whatever it takes,” added Stander. “I just try to help him however I can. He was on my side in the Gloves, you know. He backed me, supported me. He did favors, I do favors. He helped me, I try to help him now. So it’s pay back.”

    Although he can use the money, Stander doesn’t lend a hand for the “couple bucks” he earns “here and there.” “Other things,” besides money, “make him happy,” Vachon said. Like doing good deeds.

    Friends and family are all that are left once the money runs dry and the glory fades. “Mad Dog” and “The Butcher” made names for themselves in the late ‘60s and early ‘70s. Vachon reigned as an All-Star Wrestling king on cards at the Omaha Civic Auditorium. That’s where Stander enjoyed his greatest ring success, topped by challenging Frazier for “all the marbles” in what may have been the biggest sporting event Omaha’s ever seen.

    The title fight was the pinnacle of his career. But life goes on. Things change. Stander was 27 and fighting on the biggest stage his sport has to offer — in his adopted hometown no less. Before friends and family and the assembled boxing world he put himself on the line and he failed. The fight was stopped after four rounds, Stander’s face a bloody, pulpy mask. He never went down, though. He pleaded for the fight to continue, but ringside physician Jack “Doc” Lewis made the only call he could given that Stander was blinded by blood from ugly gashes and could no longer defend himself. A longtime friend said Stander cried in the dressing room, sure he’d disappointed everyone. The friend assured him he hadn’t.

    The incident reveals a couple things: how much Stander, often accused of taking a nonchalant approach to his training, cared about representing his hometown; and his never-say-die attitude. “I trained hard for the fights I cared about. I wanted to prove I was a legitimate contender,” he said. No one could ever call him a quitter.

    “He’s got a heart the size of this room,” Lovgren said from his spacious living room. “When Joe Frazier is unloading on you and you’re still standing, you’re something special. Tough guy.”

    Life hasn’t been a bed-of-roses since the Frazier fight. Stander’s contentious first marriage ended. He didn’t get to see much of his oldest two kids growing up. He remarried and had two boys before this second marriage soured. He has custody of the boys, Rowan and Ryan. He tried being an entrepreneur, owning his own bar, but that didn’t last. Long an imbiber, he developed a problem with alcohol and a DWI landed him behind bars. “I was stupid. I made some wrong decisions. I didn’t know when to say no. Let the good times roll. Let the party begin. When I had to go away for three months it was like shock treatment,” Stander said. “I was going to grow up sooner or later. Maybe it helped me to.”

    The biggest blow — to both his pocketbook and ego — was losing the best job he ever had, as a machinist at Vickers. Through it all, he’s stayed sober and tried to do the right thing for his kids and his pals.

    “He’s a good guy,” Lovgren said. “He’s a good father. He takes good care of those kids. He’s really a caring person. If you ask him to do something he makes a real effort to do that. If I need anything I know he’ll come.”

    Largely unemployed since 2000, Stander leads a hand-to-mouth existence that finds him scrounging for discarded cans and car batteries he brings to the recycler for chump change. He also does odd jobs for people who reward him with scratch. “Most of the time I’m trying to hustle some gas money and food money,” he said.

    One of his frequent stops is A. Marino Grocery, a South 13th Street throwback, or as Stander likes to say, “blast from the past.” Proprietor Frank Marino joked, “He’s my pacifier. If somebody doesn’t pay a bill we send him out to collect.” In reality, Marino said, “We have him do little things, cleanup a little bit, make a delivery every once in awhile for me.” “Take some boxes out,” added Stander, who on a recent visit grabbed a bundle of flattened cardboard boxes and deposited them in the dumpster out back. “It’s the same at Louie M’s (Burger Lust). We’re paisan.”

    It puts a few extra dollars in Stander’s pocket. Otherwise, he gets by on his monthly Social Security check. There’s no pension, no nest egg to draw on. Fighters don’t have retirement plans. He does have a 401K through Vickers, but he’s had to dip into it to make ends meet. All of which makes things tight for a man raising his two youngest boys alone. One silver lining is that his house, a mere two blocks from Rosenblatt Stadium, is paid for. Another is that his son Rowan, a senior at Creighton Prep, is a top wrestler who might earn a college athletic scholarship.

    Stander’s a robust 62, but he has health issues. He’s overweight, with high blood pressure and diabetes. He’s missing several teeth. For comic relief he slips his dentures out and opens wide to show his bare mouth. He has trouble remembering things. It’s what becomes of old fighters, even one as strong as an ox like him

    He doesn’t complain much, except to bemoan the loss of that machinist’s job at Vickers, where he operated drill presses, grinders and lathes. The Omaha plant closed just before Christmas 2000, leaving him and more than 1,000 co-workers out in the cold. He was 55, an age when it’s hard to start over. With only a high school education and no marketable skills, he’s got few prospects.

    “When Vickers closed up, that was it, that was the final straw for me,” he said, “because by the time you’re 55 or 60, if you’re not locked into something, you’re done, you’re screwed. So I’m screwed.”

    He sometimes wonders if he did the right thing pursuing a boxing career. He began at Vickers in ‘65 while still an amateur. After turning pro in ‘69 he quit his job, even though his early purses were negligible. He got $75 his first fight. A few hundred each the next few bouts. Until Frazier his biggest purse was a few thousand.

    “I had a good job at Vickers…If I had stayed there all those years and not taken a shot at the title I’d be retired right now. I went back to Vickers in ‘93 and when I finally started getting the big money in ‘95 they closed the plant. That’s what grieved me. People say, ‘Well, you can start over and work your way up again’ Yeah, right, whatever.”

    Men his age aren’t in demand by employers.

    “I’m ready to work, but people don’t want to hire ya. I’ve talked to friends in construction and they say, ‘We’re looking for guys 35, not 55. I talked to a friend in the heating and air business and he said, ‘Well, you know, Ron, at your age we don’t want you to be up on a roof when it’s 120 degrees working on an air conditioning unit. You could have a heart attack.’ There again, the age factor.”

    He did attend Vatterott College to learn a trade. He was an apartment maintenance man, but tired of tenants calling in the middle of the night demanding their leaking toilets be fixed. His pride won’t let him take an $8 or $9-an-hour job. Until a few years ago he made extra dough refereeing boxing matches in Nebraska, Iowa, the Dakotas and Minnesota. He even did a few televised title bouts. But those gigs dried up with the loss of independent promoters. He’s shut out by the casinos, where the fight action is these days, and their contract refs. Besides, with two boys, in his care he can’t be gone on those overnighters anymore.

    Like the old pug in Requiem for a Heavyweight, he’s at a loss what to do now. Fighting is all he knew. For a time he did have his own bar, The Sportsman’s Club, but his weakness for the drink made that an unhealthy environment for him to be in. He’s clean and sober now, but that alone doesn’t pay the bills.

    Money worries nag at him, especially with the boys to clothe and feed. “It’s a struggle,” he said. “We live on $953 a month Social Security.”

    Come College World Series time he pulls in some much-needed cash parking fans’ cars, at $5 a pop, on his property. His record for one game is 26 vehicles. But that happens only two weeks a year. He also makes some money from autograph signings he does in Omaha, Lincoln, Des Monies, et cetera.

    Enough time has passed that he doesn’t carry the cachet he once did, when his mug and name were enough to buy him drinks and meals and perks wherever he went. As Omaha’s last Great White Hope, everyone wanted a piece of him then.

    “It’s not like it used to be,” he said.

    The Vickers job seemed like a sure thing and then, poof, it was gone — the steady paycheck, the security, his self-esteem. “When I had money, when I had a job,” life was good, he said, “before things went from sugar to *** in a short time.”

    Quicker than you can say, Whatever happened to?, the career club fighter blew the six-figure purse he earned for his only shot at immortality. There were a handful of other big paydays. But the pay outs in his era were small potatoes compared to the millions contenders command today.

    Long gone are the days when media hounded him for quotes. His last real exposure came in 2001, when he appeared with Joe Frazier, the man who gave him a Rockyesque chance at the title. For only the second time since that fight, the two warriors met — for a Big Brothers, Big Sisters of the Midlands promotional event in Omaha. In the way that old combatants do, they embraced like long lost buddies. They were never close, but the mutual respect is real.

    The ensuing years wrought much change. Their hair’s flecked with gray, their mid-sections grown soft, their speech slowed. Yet, to their good fortune, each shows few effects from the punishing blows to the head they absorbed as sluggers who took many shots to land one of their own. They still have their wits about them.

    But Stander’s life is a far cry from the ex-champ’s. Frazier is an icon within the larger sports canon for his Olympic gold medal, undisputed heavyweight crown, his three memorable fights with Muhammad Ali and the dramatic way he lost the championship against George Foreman. He has his own gym and other business interests in his hometown of Philly. His much sought-after autograph brings hundreds of dollars, compared to a fraction of that for Stander’s.

    Where Frazier is a featured storyline in boxing history, “The Butcher” is a sidebar and footnote. Or an answer to a trivia question: Who was the last fighter Joe Frazier beat while world champ? Ron Stander. Stander’s match with “Smokin’ Joe” came between Frazier’s two most historic fights — eight months after beating Ali at New York’s Madison Square Garden and eight months before being brutally beaten in Jamaica by Foreman, who took the crown only to lose it a year later to Ali.

    The boxing world can be a small community. Even though Stander’s career is
    forgettable by all-time Ring Magazine standards, he’ll always be a part of boxing history for having fought for the title. The fight occasionally shows up on ESPN Classic. His bid, too, came at a time when the title was still unified. Plus, he squared off with some of the sport’s biggest names — Frazier, Shavers, Norton, Gerrie Coetzee. Then there’s the fact his career intersected with other legends, like Foreman, who was at the title bout in Omaha and reportedly saw something he exploited when he later faced and destroyed the champ.

    Specifically, Stander worked on an uppercut to take advantage of a flaw in Frazier’s defenses. In the third round he saw his opening and let the uppercut fly, missing by an inch. He figured he’d only get one chance and he was right. Conversely, Foreman pushed Frazier off and caught him coming in with the same punch.

    Then there were Stander’s meetings with The Greatest. He said on four occasions he was a surrogate member of Ali’s entourage. He said Ali liked having him around for his parodies of Aliisms like, “I’m the greatest of all time.” Stander does a fair impression of Ali, of sports broadcaster Howard Cosell, who once interviewed Stander, and of Mike Tyson, the troubled ex-champ.

    Stander met Tyson in Las Vegas in the ‘90s, long after his own career had ended. There’s a story behind their encounter. In preparation for Frazier, Stander manager *** Noland wanted him far from distractions and so shipped him off to Boston to work under famed Johnny Dunn. After the Frazier fight Stander parlayed the connections he’d made back east and went to the Catskills to train under legendary Cus D’Amato. It was D’Amato who went on to mentor the young Tyson.

    Stander was in Vegas, where Tyson was training for a title defense against James Broad, when he paid a call on the then-champ. As dissimilar as the two men were, they did share a pedigree in the person of Cus D’Amato.

    “He knew all of Cus’ disciples and he knew I was with Cus, so he let me in the gym. No introduction, he just came right up to me, ‘Hello, Mr. Stander.’ ‘Hey, champ, how ya doin’?.’ ‘I’m working on an uppercut that will drive that nose bone into the brain.’ ‘Yeah, that’s a good move, champ,’ said Stander in a wickedly dead-on Tyson impersonation — childlike voice, silly lisp and all. “He was something.”

    “The Butcher” even ended up in a film, The Mouse, based on the life of his real-life friend, ex-boxer Bruce “The Mouse” Strauss.

    Stander also hung out with non-sports celebrities — as a bodyguard for the Rolling Stones and The Eagles. He said Evel Knievel, whom he got to know, offered him $3,500 to work the security detail for his Snake River Canyon jump. Instead, Stander took a fight in Hawaii, where he’d never been, for the same money.

    All these brushes with fame please Stander, but as he likes to say, “That and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee.”

    He experienced about everything you can in boxing. Good, bad, indifferent. He never really announced his retirement, but he knew when it was time to quit.

    “You know when you’re almost done,” he said. “You don’t have the desire or the hunger. You’re tired of the running and the road work. You’re tired working out all the time. The stitches start mounting up. Your nose gets a little flatter. Your teeth get a little looser. Your brain gets a little jiggled. You just lose it.”

    If anything, he hung on too long, waiting for one more big payday that never came. “Yeah, that’s probably right,” he said. “There at the end I fought a lot out of shape because I didn’t care. But a guy’s gotta have money. It wasn’t like I was gaining seniority working for U.P.”

    Rather than work for meager wages today, he scrapes by. He’d like to run his own gym, but that takes moolah. One benefit of not having a regular job is that he has time to spend with his kids and help friends.

    “I try to be a role model and do the right thing for these kids. I have to show them the right way to go,” he said.

    As for his friends, Stander said, “They did right by me,” and now he’s trying to do right by them. Gabe Barajas appreciates having Stander as a friend. Barajas, the former owner of Zesto’s near the zoo and stadium, said, “We’re pretty close. He used to come up and help me out there, too, shaking everybody’s hand, bringing the heavy pop coolers up to us. He did lots of things. He ate a lot, too.”

    Stander’s visits to the nursing home Barajas resides in bring a smile to his friend’s face. Stander sometimes takes Barajas, who has MS, for drives, down to old haunts. He lifts Barajas from the bed or recliner into his wheelchair and puts him and the chair in his car. Stander said his friend needs outings like these. Otherwise, “that’s his life — in that room and down in the dining hall,” he said.

    Fred Gagliola, Stander’s old coach, knows he can count on him. “Oh, hell, yeah. He comes down here all the time to help me out,” Gagliola said. “He’s a good friend.”

    Tony Novak, Stander’s first sparring partner, lives alone in a Carter Lake trailer home. Stander frets over his buddy’s health. “Ron’s been a good, true loyal friend for 40 years. He checks on my every day,” Novak said.

    The breaks maybe haven’t gone “The Butcher’s” way since he lost to Frazier, but he just chalks it up to “fate” and appreciates what he does have.

    “No matter how good you are, how smart you are, how well-built you are, you gotta have a little bit of luck to go along with it,” he said. And you gotta have “a few good friends.” That he has. It’s why he’s not about to quit now. There are too many rounds to go, too many friends in need.

    “You gotta do whatchya gotta do. Hang in there. You can’t fight destiny.”

    Published Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:05 AM by Leo Adam Biga
    Filed under: Sports, Boxing, Friendship. Loyalty, Ron Stander
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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino1 View Post
    Hi Ron, I would welcome your opinion, comments on this. Back around 1980 or so I was lucky enought to meet former champ Sandy Saddler at an amateur boxing show in Queens, NY. He was a real gentleman. I already mentioned on this board that he shocked me when he said that he thought Marciano would have beaten Foreman ("Both men would have gone down, but Rocky would be the one who got up"). Remember, he and Archie Moore were hired by Dick Sadler (Foreman's manage) to advise/teach George.

    R. I met Sandy while I was hired to give a speech at the Rocky Marciano Foundation for Children in Mass. We were also filming a segment for Muhammad Ali, the Whole Story a project I was working on. Both times I was there they honored two different boxers, Lamotta and Ken Norton. Traveling on the hired bus I sat next to Sandy and Jake, and on those occasions I was also with Ali all of which I have on film.

    Sandy and I talked for hours and I spent time there alone with Archie Moore also interviewing him for our project at great length asking all of the legends questions no one usually would ask. In any event Sandy was such a gentleman, so polite, refined and kind. He was ailing very much and his daughter was with him.

    Sandy and Archie were tight and remember the Mongoose went 9 hard ones with the Rock so he would know. He trained big George and he felt the Rock would get him.

    Anyway, I also asked him who he thought was the most underrated champ and he immediately said "Walcott, he was very underrated as a puncher. He put Marciano and Louis on the floor.". At the end of the conversation he also said something to the effect of "Walcott would have given Foreman fits". I am ashamed to say, I know little about Walcott other than he was on the receiving end of one of Rocky's best SuzieQs. Was Walcott the puncher Saddler said he was?

    R. Yes and then some. He was a tremendous puncher that was once run out of Joe Louis's camp at Pompton Lakes by Blackburn after Walcott gave Joe Louis a lot of trouble prior to their bouts. This is a man who knocked out Harold Johnson and his father too. I spent many days with Joe Walcott at the Concord Hotel having dinner with him and Mike Spinks and Dwight Qawi in 1988. I have some nice pictures of me and Joe. I grilled him about those bouts no one asks about.
    We all know he had both hands a right hand that dropped Joe Louis about 4 times and that beautiful left hook that dropped Rocky.

    He was mobbed controlled so who knows what anymore about the behind the scenes machinations in those days.

    Sandy was a class act, a terrific warrior and always ripped and ready. He went through hell with his eye and his bouts with Pep say it all. A featherweight giant.



    Also, just as an FYI, Saddler said that for many of Georgle's early fights, the only training he did was roadwork, hitting the heavy bag for 1/2 hour, and sparring four to six, 4-minute rounds. He said George never did ab work, etc. but he did chop wood very much. By the way, I can't overstate what a gentleman Mr. Saddler was and how polite and respectfull he was to my wife.

    best,
    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Thanks Karl,

    that is some poignant stuff on Ron Stander, any pictures of him then and now?

    Good to hear from you,

    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hi Ron, My dad always said the Ali-Lyle fight was stopped too soon. I am not one to question a ref stopping a fight as I know he is right up there and can see a fighter's eyes, etc. but this one really looked fishy. Lyle had taken tremendous shots from Shavers and went on to win. Do you think the ref jumped in too soon on that one?

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    PETER TOMLINSON CALL ME NOW, EMAIL RLipt8@aol.com

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    I just read that Holyfield and Ray Mercer are fighting again in South Africa, a 4 round exhibition. I refereed their first match on Pay Per View in Atlantic City Convention Center.

    Glad we are all still going strong. http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Boxing...Bpr0809d12.htm

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino1 View Post
    Hi Ron, My dad always said the Ali-Lyle fight was stopped too soon. I am not one to question a ref stopping a fight as I know he is right up there and can see a fighter's eyes, etc. but this one really looked fishy. Lyle had taken tremendous shots from Shavers and went on to win. Do you think the ref jumped in too soon on that one?
    This one is controversial and i'd like to hear rons take on it because to me Lyle looked to be in serious trouble. Ali coasted that whole fight and demonstrated what he was so adept at. Turning it on when he needed to. He saw the opening and put him on queer street with that right hand. Ali was tagging him hard and in sucession with head jarring shots. Lyle took tremendous shots from Shavers but where the difference lies is in Ali's ability to pour it all on landing well timed and placed shots in combination preventing any recovery.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hi JaKob,

    the stoppage was a good one, Lyle was not punching back, he was visible stunned from the snapping right hand on his chin, wobbled and got rained on.
    If someone is NOT hurt and they are covering up that is one thing, when they ARE hurt and taking plenty of head shots it has to be stopped. Good stoppage.
    I was with Ali quite a bit before he went out to Vegas for that one and he had zero fear of Lyle believe me.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    I saw David Tua not that long ago here in NZ. I've seen him multiple times over the years and remember watching him train here in the early 90's. He was trim, had snappy handspeed, and could work at a furious pace. What went wrong i don't know. Everytime i meet him im blown away by what a physical specimen he is. Indeed he is carrying too much bodyfat and people may chuckle at the notion of me being impressed by his physique. What i'm impressed by is how unusually thick this guy is. His frame, his head, his neck, his calves. That's a different kind of human. Watching him hit the heavybag live in person is something else. The explosive snapping sound that reveberated throught that small gym as he so easily uncorked his left hand on that bag left me in a state of what could only be described as AWE. There are plenty of guys out there with great boxing knowledge but i think you especially understand the implications positive and negative of the various body types, musculature we see carried by fighters and i enjoy reading you breaking this down. We all know how Tua's career unfolded. Subpar to say the least. But in terms of raw physical materials and potential what did you think of him?

    I saw his fight against hunnicut recently on some old VHS. I must say i was immensely impressed with how you held yourself in the ring. Poised and attentive and as minimally involved as possible but immediately responsive when necessary. Was great to see how attentive you were eyes fixed on the action which resulted in an immediate response without hesitation when Tua nailed him. So refreshing to see when we live in an age where Ref's are lethargic, hesitant, slow to respond OR/AND show ponies whom are unecessarily loud and imposing.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    JaKob,
    thank you so much for your kind words. I maintain my cat like reflexes and focus thank God and the last time I refereed in March 2012, it felt like I still had them.
    I was a muscular 164lbs and trimmed down to 155 now that I am back in the ring, I am very ripped and happy to be back. I will be refereeing again on Aug 24th in NY.

    I hope you enjoy these two David Tua bouts I did.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7lUWG8erFY

    If you see David please tell him hello from Ron Lipton, and remind him I refereed his two fights, with Dan Murphy and Rick Hunicutt and it was a pleasure to see his good sportsmanship in the ring. He listened to me, stopped punching immediately when told to do so and did nothing to disrespect his opponents.

    best,
    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Question:
    Jumping in as opponent throws cross or lunging hooks? to come inside their punch and not get hit by it. sets you up for a counter.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hi Ron, go to your Inbox, message for you there!

    Jim.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Olympus, Boxing history is full of examples of getting there firstest with the mostest, being accurate and countering so fast with dynamite the boxing rules portrayed in illustrated boxing books of what to do and not to do just fall by the wayside. Churning, turning, pulling the trigger with torque, in and out taking what you want and crushing a guy eliminates counters and by the book responses, POWER, HAND SPEED, SKILL, AND AVOIDING COUNTERS and being anatomically correct and vicious with your shots, ends the whole affair quickly.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hi everyone, I have been working on a few different projects, Impact, The story of Jewish Boxers in America, by James Ford Nussbaum, http://vimeo.com/36895359,
    The Dick Tiger Foundation Launch Dinner on Sunday Oct 28, 2012, with a two round boxing exhibition choreographed by me honoring the Dick Tiger V Gene Fullmer 3rd fight in Nigeria, to be held at the Surf Club in New Rochelle, and an article in The Ring Magazine Dec Issue on punching power. I hope everyone is well and I am scheduled so far to referee on the fight card in Albany at the Times Union Center on Oct 27, 2012 Saturday.

    Best wishes to everyone,

    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    The Ring Magazine called me to do an interview with them on Punching Power are punchers born or made, the interview will be in the Dec issue of "The Ring Magazine."

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    "ARE PUNCHERS BORN OR MADE,?" by TK STEWART

    http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/1...s-born-or-made

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    THE RING MAGAZINE ARTICLE DEC 2012 ONLINE ISSUE, "ARE PUNCHERS BORN OR MADE," BY TK STEWART.

    http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/1...s-born-or-made

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Ron, may I ask your opinion here regarding punching power: Is it possible for a man with a light bone structure (thin wrists, small hands) to develop into a really capable puncher? In your many years of experience, have you seen fellows with very light frames generate real power? As always, thanks for sharing your expertise.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hey Ron,

    I don't know if you heard that Gordoom will be shutting down the CBZ Message Board (see the Modern Section) after Thanksgiving weekend, but I thought I'd offer you a chance to have a column up at the CBZ Newswire page ( www.cyberboxingzone.com/blog ), where you could address various issues, such as training, etc. Maybe we could do it weekly, every other week or monthly. We can post your email address at the end of your pieces, people could email you questions, and you could address select ones, or just talk about whatever you want. Let me know if you are interested.

    I don't know which email address to use to contact you; I've had several "Black Leopard" email addresses in my old address book. Can you please let me know what email address to correspond with you? You can send me a message on Facebook if you'd like.

    Regards,



    Juan

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Juan C Ayllon View Post
    Hey Ron,

    I don't know if you heard that Gordoom will be shutting down the CBZ Message Board (see the Modern Section) after Thanksgiving weekend, but I thought I'd offer you a chance to have a column up at the CBZ Newswire page ( www.cyberboxingzone.com/blog ), where you could address various issues, such as training, etc. Maybe we could do it weekly, every other week or monthly. We can post your email address at the end of your pieces, people could email you questions, and you could address select ones, or just talk about whatever you want. Let me know if you are interested.

    I don't know which email address to use to contact you; I've had several "Black Leopard" email addresses in my old address book. Can you please let me know what email address to correspond with you? You can send me a message on Facebook if you'd like.

    Regards,



    Juan
    That is very sad to hear, after all these years. My E-mail is RLipt8@aol.com, and I would be happy to have a column at the CBZ Newswire page. Have a great Thanksgiving Juan.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    great issues altogether, you simply won a new reader. What may you suggest about your post that you simply made some days in the past? Any positive?wishes you all the best

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread


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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Hello Ron

    Before the axe falls on this Forum I just wanted to say I always enjoyed reading your posts and talking Boxing with you here on the CBZ.

    I hope your back in the ring soon and that we bump into each other again in Cyberspace one day.

    Keep punching

    Joe.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    wrong thread, sorry lads.
    Last edited by jim glen; 11-25-2012 at 01:21 PM.

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jim glen View Post
    wrong thread, sorry lads.
    Thanks for everything Jim.
    blessings,

    Ron

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    Re: Ron Lipton: Q & A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KOJOE90 View Post
    Hello Ron

    Before the axe falls on this Forum I just wanted to say I always enjoyed reading your posts and talking Boxing with you here on the CBZ.

    I hope your back in the ring soon and that we bump into each other again in Cyberspace one day.



    Keep punching

    Joe.
    R: KOJOE90, It has been my pleasure buddy, and I would love to see all of my CBZ family at a big TV fight in MSG one day, if they ever give me the chance I worked so hard for and was taken away so unjustly for so long. Maybe justice will prevail one day with this and I will be back in the main event in MSG before the whole show is over.

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