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Thread: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

  1. #31
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    The "Wise guys" that I have spoken to

    Informed me that it wasn't even Duran in New Orleans.

    When I was talking with Guy Bannister, from the grave of course (yes he did have mob ties, along with being a member of the CIA, FBI, KGB and a foot solder for Fidel Castro), he told me that I really needed to speak with Jim Garrison about this, if not Oliver Stone.

    I mean, when DID Duran ever act this way (Pat Lawlor aside...)? Clearly this was NOT Duran. I would ask that someone PROVE that it really was Duran.

    Obviously, you can't.

    I think it is NOT coincidental that Leonard vs. (imposter) Duran II was held in New Orleans, which is the SAME location that the Kennedy Assasination was finally brought to trial.

    I know for a fact that Freddie Brown was seen on the street corner DURING the bout, handing out "Hands Off Cuba" pamphlets. WHile the bout was happening! You think that Brown would hand these out if it were the REAL Duran in the SuperDome?

    C'mon now. Exactly how gulible are we boxing fans?

    Scully and Mulder told me personally that they thought it was an Alien in the ring that night impersonating Duran. And the Alien actually DID have, not only Stomach cramps, but some financial difficulties as well.

    So I think it IS clear that the alien who was impersonating Duran in New Orleans, while Freddie Brown was handing out Pro Communist Literature, DID throw the bout agianst Leonard, who by the way, actually was his brother Roger.

    I mean really, SRL would not need 8 rounds to defeat an alien. So it HAD to be Roger.

    It's a No brainer guys.

    Hawk

  2. #32
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    The 24 year secret

    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto Aqui
    Randy Gordan was covering his camp for the week before the fight and was an eye witness to all that transpired which can be found in these archives.
    Interesting story by Gordon.

    Someone should mention to Randy that Christie Brinkley's picture in Ring Magazine wasn't the one and only picture of Duran (which he claims) with an ice pack on his stomach. Sports Illustrated featured a much better quality color picture of Duran with the ice pack in their coverage of the fight. I imagine it's not the only inconsistency in his report.

    It all seems so clear now, despite the fact that a roomful of people never reported the massive shit after the fight story.

    Only Gordon.

    Even more interesting is the fact it took Gordon until 2004 to come forth with this revelation. I guess in 1980 when his employer Ring Magazine covered the "What Really Happened" story, Gordon decided to keep it under wraps. Even as future editor of Ring Magazine Gordon decided not to put this in print.

    Today it makes for a neat and tidy and all too understandable reason and most importantly helps justify Duran's reasons an admitted "friend" of Gordon's for quitting.

    Guess Freddie Brown walked away from boxing disgusted and died of a broken heart because Duran while possessing "Hands of Stone" unfortunately was burdened with "Bowels of Putty."

  3. #33
    Roberto Aqui
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    Re: The 24 year secret

    Quote Originally Posted by 10-8
    It all seems so clear now, despite the fact that a roomful of people never reported the massive shit after the fight story.

    Only Gordon.

    Even more interesting is the fact it took Gordon until 2004 to come forth with this revelation.
    I knew about the steak story in 1980 and I had zero connections to boxing. It makes perfect sense and fits like a glove with Duran's training habits. You must have been buried alive in a monestery for 25 yrs not to have heard the stories.

    Now, Gordon did fill in the details. Could he be lying? Sure, after all, this is boxing, where truth often cannot be discerned in the shadows. The difference in Duran in the two fights is just too great to be dismissed though. I would think even a blind hog could see Duran wasn't interested in the fight or training for the 2nd fight, in fact, never coming close to the welter limit again.

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    Re: The 24 year secret

    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto Aqui
    I knew about the steak story in 1980 and I had zero connections to boxing. It makes perfect sense and fits like a glove with Duran's training habits. You must have been buried alive in a monestery for 25 yrs not to have heard the stories.
    Everyone knew the steak story. It was common knowledge.

    That wasn't Gordon's revelation.

    The massive shit story like the one between your ears is Gordon's new revelation.

  5. #35
    Roberto Aqui
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    Re: The 24 year secret

    Quote Originally Posted by 10-8
    Everyone knew the steak story. It was common knowledge.

    That wasn't Gordon's revelation.

    The massive shit story like the one between your ears is Gordon's new revelation.
    Full steak dinners have an exit point. No new revelations there, just the same ol' daily story told by your best buddy, john.

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    Re: The 24 year secret

    Quote Originally Posted by 10-8
    Everyone knew the steak story. It was common knowledge.

    That wasn't Gordon's revelation.

    The massive shit story like the one between your ears is Gordon's new revelation.
    Cyber arguments should not make anyone that upset.

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by rocky111
    Does anybody think that Duran quit in the second bout because he wanted to? Is it possible the heavilly in debt Duran might have quit? Is it possible that Ray Arcel was so embarrassed at this slant to his honor that he refused to train him again for that reason? This takes away nothing from Sugar Ray Leonard who is all fighter and champion, but it is possible the fight was fixed? When did Duran ever behaive like this? Very uncharactoristic.....
    You know Duran couldn't lose to someone like Ray but I don't think a fix was the reason for his loss.

    The real story is that Duran got a late start to get the 40 pounds off (Leonard's camp had been eyeing him and noticed he balooned to 190 and had to plead with Leonard not to retire) but was 10 pounds over with 3 days (due to some kind mix up with the scale they were using) before the weigh in and took drastic measures to get it off then splurged after he made 147. This satisfied his hunger but ruined him for the fight. The result of the contest was a foregone conclusion.

    I got this information from Randy Gordon's account of No mas.

    By the way, I think Leonard was a fine fighter and a great welterweight.
    Last edited by ultimo; 06-26-2007 at 05:53 PM.

  8. #38
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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Actually, sitting back and reading all these bandwagon haters, who are jumping on every rumor, myth etc...the they could find to try..Key world Try to diminish the successful career of Ray Leoanrd is hilarious. We have one person who looks at YouTube to get all is his information, and he gets on here and proclaims "The Real Story is",,,hmmm I guess you were there?

    We have others say flat out false statments, Duran walked Ray down in the 8th round......Or Tommy had a tendency to wilt later in rounds..or even that he had problems making weight....Hmmm I am soooooo glad I have Tommy's own words to address that issue.

    Mighty funny Leonard's camp had been eyeing him huh....Tell Us Ultimo...how is it that Leoanrd's camp had been eyeing him when Leonard asked for a rematch a week after he lost...One week! When he returned back from a family vacation, and at first had some thoughts of retirment, but them immediately asked Mike Trainer to make the fight. Durans manager accepted it, and thus history was made. Tell me how much eyeing could they do in a week. Hmmm another myth, I suppose. I am not saying Duran didnt baloon up after the fight, but didnt he always. Did duran previoulsy have to cut weight to get down to 135 in previous fights. Finally, what the hell difference does it make. Quit whinning...dammm! You have no idea how weak some of your excuse making sounds..and your not even getting paid by Duran. Accept it please, and lets move on. It has been 26 years. almost 27, and I dont think one check has rolled in to support the false myths that some are living their life based on. Duran got a L in New Orleans. Face it! I read on here where someone said well the only reason is Duran was not the same Duran, he hugged Ray twice after the fight, etc....You got to be kidding me....What was a guy to do after he just quit, jump up on the ropes and call out Benitez again, and pat his chest to say he is the best....Duran was just humiliated in front of the world. Leonard instead of rubbing it in, went over, knocked down the hands of his people who were hoisting him and showed good sportsmanship, after all the bad blood and Duran responeded, unlike in Montreal when he was hyped up...I am amazed that we here that is an excuse now. Hmmm another thing, SO WHAT! Motivation, focus, desire, drive is part of being a champion, if you dont have it each time you get in the ring you run the chance of losing, Who give you a bye because of the fact that you dont have focus or motivation. Who takes it easy on you. I guess you dont give the upset winner of a track race a victory if the runner who was favored didnt train as he didn when he was on his way up the ladder, Huh.

    I heard Leonard had the flu before the 1st fight..so durans win isnt valid. Or Dejesus was not motivated for the rematch, so we should not give duran credit for his rematch... I honestly heard that. I also heard that Butster Douglas mother died before his match with Tyson, and Tyson was over looking him, so we should put an asterik in the record books over that Loss on Tyson's Career. Everyone knows that George Foreman was given something prior to his fight with ali that impacted his performance right...Hell I know I read it...So I have the real story, so we should not give Ali credit for his win over him! If we are to believe the myths associated wih this fight, unproven, and actually irrelevant, then we should discredit almost every championship fight out there, as there is always a story line or a reason why the fighter who lost was not up to par or his best etc.....The only reason I ever point to, is when a fighter is well beyound his peak years, as this is common for every fighter and is a proven fact your skills, speed etc slip when you get older. However, the winning fighter should not get knocked for his performance, he should just have other fights vs peak fighters to better gauge his abilities.!

    I have to honestly admit, it is becoming embarrasing hearing the whinning and excuses that are being offered. If you want to continue, then go ahead, I will not attempt to defend Ray's victories anymore. You know why, 3 Reasons.

    1. His victories need no defense, they are official and haters have to accept it.

    2. If someone is dumb enough to believe the cramp theory, or that hearns wilted theory,,then so be it....They will always be on that level.

    Last but not least and probably most important.

    3. My father always told me who is the bigger dummy, the dummy or he who argues with a dummy. So I guess that I am the biggest dummy on here.

    Peace....Leonard 2-1 vs duran. 1-1 vs Hearns (stopped him in their prime), 1-0 vs hagler (came out of retirment after only 1 fight in 5 years, and moved up 2 weight classes), 1-0 vs benetiz....Oooochhh!
    Last edited by wpink; 06-27-2007 at 09:15 AM.

  9. #39
    Roberto Aqui
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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by wpink
    Actually, sitting back and reading all these bandwagon haters, who are jumping on every rumor, myth etc...the they could find to try..Key world Try to diminish the successful career of Ray Leoanrd is hilarious.
    Actually, sitting back and reading about the myth of all these bandwagon haters is just pinklarious for sure.

    Gordon has his eyewitness account. Cosell interviews Ray Arcel who says he was unaware of the cramps, but that a translator told him about them after the fight. Arcel says Duran had never behaved this way before, and admits he doesn't know why Duran quits.

    Cosell then interviews Duran and his doc. The doc denies the diuretics and says he has nothing to do with the training. Duran says, again, he had "cramps," which we know to be code word for craps.

    Cosell asks Duran what he ate before the fight. Two "big steaks", a "lot of french fries" and orange juice. Cosell then notes that many fighters eat after a weighin.

    Cosell then notes the commission physician who examined Duran after the fight diagnosed "acute abdominal distension," again, code for full of crap.

    Cosell asks Duran if he would quit ever again under similar circumstances, and Duran, says, yes he would if he had "pains".

    All known about in the day by those who make it a habit of knowing.

  10. #40
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    I think

    Ronald Fried's book Corner Men is essential reading here on this subject.

    Freddie Brown and Ray Arcel were with Duran.

    They would know.

    As for being exasperated with posters who have made exscuses for Leonards fights.......Why then start a thread dealing with this very subject?

    "I'm sick of talking about the Chavez Taylor stopagge....So here's a thread discussing it."

    Hawk

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Hawk,
    In my post I pointed 2 certain statements that simply were untrue, and used either the fighters own words or other factual evidence such as the tape of the fight or youtube, 2 dispell certain myths.

    Had no idea that it would quiet some myths by some, but genetate even more bizaare excuses, such as Duran Hugging Ray after the fight or the fight being thrown....

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto Aqui
    Duran says, again, he had "cramps," which we know to be code word for craps.
    Maybe "cramps" is actually the code word for "crabs" and Duran just needed a good scratch which was impossible with the 8 oz Everlasts and cup protector he was wearing.

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown were Duran's trainers but they were never Duran insiders. They were not close.

    IT is so obvious all these years later that Duran quit because he was frustrated , he knew he was not in great enough shape and he refused to be embarrassed. He completely misjudged the reaction to this actions. IT was frustration and ignorance and a bit of a pompass attitude.

    Ray Leonard was an exceptional fighter who at his best simply had the style to beat Duran at his best, period.

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by HE Grant
    Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown were Duran's trainers but they were never Duran insiders. They were not close.

    IT is so obvious all these years later that Duran quit because he was frustrated , he knew he was not in great enough shape and he refused to be embarrassed. He completely misjudged the reaction to this actions. IT was frustration and ignorance and a bit of a pompass attitude.

    Ray Leonard was an exceptional fighter who at his best simply had the style to beat Duran at his best, period.
    Mr. Grant

    You are so right on in every single thing stated here. Having 8 million dollars in letters of credit in a bank in Panama didn't hurt either

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    I would disagree with the notion that Brown

    was not close with Duran, from a trainer-fighter relationship. I would say he was. He knew what made Duran tick and he knew what buttons to push on him in order to get the results he desired.

    Was he his "buddy"? No. But Brown knew Duran. He was always with Roberto throughout thier camps.

    Arcel was more like Dundee was with Leonard. He would come in at the end of camp and talk strategy and fine tune. He was not intimate with Duran, but he would know whether Duran was in shape or not or was looking sharp or was "ready" or not.

    Brown and Arcel had a falling out as a result of New Orleans and how each handled the situation.

    Agian, Fried's book IS essntial reading as it pertains to Leonard Duran II.

    Hawk

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Hands of stone page 205...Ray Arcel was there said Duran quit because he was sick of Ray not fighing him like a man....There were no cramps, nothing. His exact words were No quiero pelear con el payaso...Which means I do not want to fight with this clown.....Howeard Cosell who doesnt know spanish created the myth that Duran only said No Mas.....Meyran..the referee also said Duran said in broken english the same thing....This is Durans Autobiography....

    Carlos eleta also said No mas was never mentioned.... Oh Aqui..In Durans own Autobiography...he refuted ever telling his corner he had stomach cramps...page 204 Hands of Stone....Freddie Brown made up the story about Stomach Cramps...He told reporters....

    Page 207...Eleta arrives at the hospital to justify that there would not be serious problems with Duran. Duran didnt have anything wrong with him, There were no stomach cramps. He just simply was not prepared for that fight. Leonard was beating him bad and Duran said that nobody will knock me out".

    Now Duran says there is no stomach cramps, Eleta says there wasnt, Arcel says there isnt.....Hmmmmmmm

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Hawk,

    Could you shed some light on what the books says in summary. I will buy it, but if you could shed just a little light, that would be very good reading.

  18. #48
    Roberto Aqui
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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by wpink
    There were no cramps, nothing. His exact words were No quiero pelear con el payaso...Which means I do not want to fight with this clown.....
    Now Duran says there is no stomach cramps, Eleta says there wasnt, Arcel says there isnt.....Hmmmmmmm
    Hmmmmmm, Arcel states in the post fight interview with Cosell that he doesn't know why Duran quit, Duran tells Cosell the next day that he had cramps, and the commission physician issues a report that says Duran had acute abdominal distension, all captured on film within the 24 hrs post fight period.......Hmmmmmmmm indeed.......Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

  19. #49
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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Yes and you believe he had stomach cramps that led to him having to quit. Lets get this straight Aqui, we are talking about boxing, about a legend, the Hands of Stone, who outside of the Tommy Hearns fight, never got stopped. We are talking about a situation where not on any tape do you see Duran grimacing in pain, before, during or after the fight. In fact after the fight Duran was partying in the Hotel, then they took him to the Hospital.

    Now I ask you aqui, can you set you bias aside and use common sense. I set mine aside and restated that Leonard was not whipping duran. In fact I had Ray up nly by 1 point in that fight, with him probably about to go up 2 points. However, Lets just say he did have stomach cramps... Didnt Ali fight witha broken Jaw, Hasnt, roy jones, and Mayweathe fought with broken hands, Haven/t fighters fought before with significant injuries, including cramps.... Do you hear anyone in the world using this as an excuse. Is there any bigger excuse in boxing...

    Mighty funny that before making such a huge step, that Arcel didn't know and neither did anyone else in the world at the time he quit. The story was created later. If you have the tape, show us all where he grimaced, or clutched or something, to show he had a paid so sever he had to quit....

    Aqui, I have the video and the translator and manager were at different locations and clearly they had time under the tutalage of Freddie Brown to create a story. I guess you dont believe that any fighter who quit would make up a story, or in this case is appears others made up the story. I guess that just is not concievable. Can you help me understand why Duran himself would say he did not have cramps, and Have it published in his out autobiography! I think he would know better than anyone else, don't you?

  20. #50
    Roberto Aqui
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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by wpink
    Can you help me understand why Duran himself would say he did not have cramps, and Have it published in his out autobiography! I think he would know better than anyone else, don't you?
    Look, you can't even get straight the action of last 10 sec of this fight, so the odds of you understanding something more subjective just fly out the bathroom window.

    I just layed out the facts as they occurred. IF, if there are more opinions that contradict the facts of that 24hr post fight period, well, that's a whole 'nother subject.

    When I study the history of the world, it's wise to study more than the memoirs of Henry Kissinger alone. The facts of the Duran incident I layed out have several supporting verifications.

    When 3 eyewitnesses to a bank robbery independently confirm the events as they occurred, I have no choice but to convict.

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Aqui,


    Get your facts straight son. Facts! First off I pointed out what happened in the last part of the fight from the tape. Your confusing me with others.

    2ndly, your bias for Duran clearly clouds your judbment. Example

    1. You ignore repeated facts that Duran himself said he didnt have cramps in his own biography. You ignore this and skip over this very important issue. I do not think that if this was false, he would allow this in his own biography. I even pointed out the page for you to review. Simplly go to Barnes and Nobles if you dont have the book. It is right there.

    2. I have asked you point blank how relevant is it even if he did have cramps. Only you and a few others that can not seem to quite yet fathom that Duran simply was frustereated and quit that night, try to keep up a myth by pointing to very very weak pieces of information.

    3. You point to a interview after the fight, but convientliy leave out that the arcel inteview and the interview with his trainer were at different times. I guess in your mind it is impossible that the interview later set by his people to start and try minimize the damage. I guess Aqui to you that is not a possibility, to most others it is the most likely outcome.

    4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVN-z0RxFek Duran admitted that no dieretics were taken, and that it is not unusual how he got down in weight and his food that he took immediately after the weigh in were not unusual, and in fact Ray Leonard ate a lot also. Now Cosell points out that a doctor did say Duran had accute abdominal whatever.

    5. Other fighters have fought with pain, broken jaws, hands. stomach pains..etc. Why are you continuing 26 years later to not accept Duran simply quit. This is no knock on him he is still a great great all time fighter. He simply quit in a fight he was frusterated.

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by HE Grant
    Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown were Duran's trainers but they were never Duran insiders. They were not close.

    IT is so obvious all these years later that Duran quit because he was frustrated , he knew he was not in great enough shape and he refused to be embarrassed. He completely misjudged the reaction to this actions. IT was frustration and ignorance and a bit of a pompass attitude.

    Ray Leonard was an exceptional fighter who at his best simply had the style to beat Duran at his best, period.
    No offense fellas, but I think this makes the most sense to me. Don't mean to blow all the conspiracy stories out of the water...

  23. #53
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    Sheesh

    There were more and three Independant confirmations as to seeing JFK killed by a host of different characters.

    Doesn't mean they were true. (I'm gonn make the New Orleans connection stick!)

    Freddie Brown who was always with Duran, says Roberto did not have cramps and that after he quit, he made up the cramps story to protect Roberto.

    But given the fact that he lied to protect Roberto, And then told everyone he lied (how was this protecting Duran if he told everyone this? ) do we absolutely know he's telling the truth? Not really.

    Duran himself has changed his story on whether he did or did not have cramps. Multiple times.

    Duran's Bio states that he was partying heavily in his room less than 24 hours after the fight. Of course this revalation didn't come out until this past year.

    Randy Gordon's personal take on the bout is interesting, but I also find issues with him coming out with them 24 years later.

    He claims he was with Bert Sugar at the bout and then went to the dressing room by himself. Wanna share this with the boss who was writing the post fight story for the mag you work for? What is to be gained by NOT confirming Duranís story about the Stomach cramps, by telling the world what you witnessed? This makes very little sense to me and Gordon doesnít give any reasons WHY he never told this story.

    I have other problems with Gordon's article. First off, the part where Janks Morton tells Ray in August he needs to get in the gym because Duran is fat. There are some contradictions here that need to be addressed: First off, Dave Jacobs was Rayís full time trainer (Dundee only came in at the end of camp to work strategy and fine tune things) and once RAY decided that he wanted an immediate rematch, Jacobs advised Ray against this and ultimately quit his post. Janks Morton was a friend of Rayís and he was given the position Jacobs previously had. So for Morton to make this claim that HE got Ray going for the rematch is patentedly false. Ray had already made up his mind. And when he did, he then made the change in full time trainers.

    Use the Nov 24th 1980 issue of SI as a reference point and you will see that Ray made this decision before he left Hawaii, which is where he and his wife went following the loss in Montreal. So Gordanís claim that Ray was still sulking and brooding through July, is also false. Rayís mind was already made up. And he was already going to work for preparation for the rematch. Mike Trainer was already working the negotiations for the bout as well.

    So this tale of Morton being the catalyst for getting things goingÖ..Not true. Iím sure he wants to take credit here, but it really has no merit.

    I will not insult anyone's intelligence and claim I know for sure the reasons Duran quit, becuase I don't know...for sure. I can speculate and give my opinion. Much of my beliefs on what happened mirrors HeGrantís opinion on this. But in the end, it is only that: My opinion.

    Anyone else here claiming they know for sure why Duran did what he did is talking out the other end.

    I like Randy Gordon very much. I have far too many problems with his piece on Leonard Duran II to give it much credence.

    I respect Freddie Brown immensely. But I also donít have 100 % faith in his version of what went on in New Orleans.

    I simply DONíT KNOW.

    And neither does anyone else here on this board.

    Hawk

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    Re: Sheesh

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    But given the fact that he lied to protect Roberto, And then told everyone he lied (how was this protecting Duran if he told everyone this? ) do we absolutely know he's telling the truth? Not really.
    Someone once asked me if I always tell the truth. I replied that if he thought hard about this question, he'd realize that any responce that I gave him couldn't really give him any more information than he had when he asked it. He didn't get it - but the sentence above made me think about that as soon as I had read it.

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Guys as you can see I've bumped up just a few of the Sugar Ray threads. Muy point is haven't you guys flogged this subject to death yet? If you read through the other threads it's the same bunch of guys saying the same things over & over & over.

    Guess what guys? The history of boxing is replete with great fighters, let's talk about them. This constant barrage about Ray with everybody repeating themselves is boring as hell. Can we please find something else to discuss?

    GorDoom

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    Guys, the Leonard Duran fights are fairly obvious in how they played out.

    Ist fight, a young Leonard let his ego out think his brain, fought Duran's fight, put on a super competitive and courageous performance and lost a narrow decision to a highly motivated Duran who fought a great fight, the fight of his life. People here seem to forget that Leonard won the last two rounds. I came away from that fight believeing that Duran won but would never beat Ray again.

    2nd fight: Leonard, lessons learned, used his skills to fight the fight he had to fight to beat Duran. Duran, over confident, not focused or trained enough, knew it was slipping away from him and lost his sh-t and quit. While it lasted it was a competitive fight but Duran lost a chip, could not keep it together and knew more than anyone else in the arena that this guy was no Viruet brother and he was being made to look foolish.

    3rd Fight: Leonard, easy.
    Last edited by HE Grant; 06-28-2007 at 12:39 PM.

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    Re: Sheesh

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    I have other problems with Gordon's article. First off, the part where Janks Morton tells Ray in August he needs to get in the gym because Duran is fat. There are some contradictions here that need to be addressed: First off, Dave Jacobs was Rayís full time trainer (Dundee only came in at the end of camp to work strategy and fine tune things) and once RAY decided that he wanted an immediate rematch, Jacobs advised Ray against this and ultimately quit his post. Janks Morton was a friend of Rayís and he was given the position Jacobs previously had. So for Morton to make this claim that HE got Ray going for the rematch is patentedly false. Ray had already made up his mind. And when he did, he then made the change in full time trainers.

    Use the Nov 24th 1980 issue of SI as a reference point and you will see that Ray made this decision before he left Hawaii, which is where he and his wife went following the loss in Montreal. So Gordanís claim that Ray was still sulking and brooding through July, is also false. Rayís mind was already made up. And he was already going to work for preparation for the rematch. Mike Trainer was already working the negotiations for the bout as well.

    So this tale of Morton being the catalyst for getting things goingÖ..Not true. Iím sure he wants to take credit here, but it really has no merit.
    Hawk, Ray Leonard gave an interview to Ring Magazine in a 1983 issue (I'm thinking around September). Ray himself stated that he was in a bit of a funk over the Duran loss, moping around the house and it was in fact Janks Morton who became a daily visitor and prodded Ray into rematching sooner than Ray was planning on. Something to the effect that the time was now since Duran was overweight and partying. I know I quoted the article on one of these threads not too long ago.

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    10-8

    THe SI Article I mentioned also states he moped about after the loss. But by the end of his vaca, he had already decided to move on and go after Duran agian.

    The article which interviewed Ray, was done the week before the rematch.

    Personally, I have a tendency to lay more credence in what was said at the time, vs what is said later down the line.

    Not suggesting everything Ray ever said is unimpeachable. Hell his recent "I originally intended to slug with Hagler" piece IMO is full of crap.

    I will go search for the 83' interview as well. Interesting to see what changed in his story over three years.

    Adendum:

    In Ray's book, A Fist Full of Sugar, WHihc came out after the Duran rematch, he makes a point of sticking up for the Decision to get rid of Dave Jacobs and repalcing him with Janks Morton.

    "People say, "Janks can't train Ray', And I say, "why Not'?" said Leoanrd. "Janks has picked things up quickly. He knows fundamentals. WHne I'm in the ring, I can't see my mistakes. I need somebody to correct them."

    No where in the book does he mention that Morton had to coerce him into the ring. ANd no where in the SI article does it mention that either.

    Perhaps in the Ring interview, he wanted to throw Janks a bone? I dunno. Janks was a personal friend of Ray's. He wanted to make his friend look good? Really, I simply don't know. I do tend to beleive more about what was said at the time things happened, rather than stuff down the line.

    No idea why the this (Janks pushing Ray to watch the fight and getting him back into the ring) came up later, contradicting what Ray said in the SI article prior to the rematch and his own bio that came out right after the Bout in New Orleans.

    Makes for good copy though.

    Hawk
    Last edited by hawk5ins; 06-28-2007 at 02:24 PM.

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    Re: No Matter What SRL Did, There Always Is An Excuse

    You guys just don't get it. Covering the same subject over & over again is not only boring as hell but because of limited bandwidth everytime you start a multitude of theads on the same subject you use up irrelevant bandwith repeating yourselves & you cost ME money because i pay for this.

    & I certainly don't see any volunteers offering to help out with the cost of the CBZ. So please, knock it off. One SRL thread is good enough. If this keeps up I'm just gonna close all the SRL threads because having this many is absurd.

    & guess what? There are OTHER fighters to talk about.Not too mention don't you guys get tired of repeating yourselves constantly. We all know what you think already. Give it a rest ... This is not the SRL board.

    GorDoom

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    10-8

    Found the interview.

    It totally contradicts what happened and how it happened as it pertains to Dave Jacobs leaving and the reasons he left for. It also goes agianst the story he give to Sports Illustrated. And what he said in his own Bio.

    "hell I didn't want to see no more of Duran. Oh Yes I wanted to fight him agian, But not FIVE months later. I said to myself, "hey give me another year to cool down."

    In SI:

    "They had been in Hawaii only a day when Leonard began to feel encouraged to fight agian. First of all the swelling of his face and ear had gone down quickly and his body no longer was aching and sore........On the second day he was there, Leonard got up early, put on his sweats and started out the door to do roadwork......(To Juanita in Hawaii) "you might like to hear what I'm going to tell you, but you know I want to fight that sucker agian"....When he returned from Hawaii, Leonard began preparing for another go, watching replays of the Montreal fight, analyzing it over and over agian."

    In Leonard's book, He tells of how the entire Jacobs fallout happened and about how just days after the bout, he hinted of retirement on Good Morning America. And then how he almost immediately recanted this saying "I want my title back".

    "In the script I've written, I become the champion of the World again and that's it. The end. Fade out."

    While waiting for the sceduled rematch, Ray did say there were times he sought out long time friend and now day to day trainer, Morton for:

    "....reassurance and reflection of just how far they had come. They would pick the quiet early morning hours to ride around the Capital Bletway, remembering where they had been, where they were going and what was waiting over the next hill."

    This differs a bit from Morton seeking RAY out, to goad him into taking a bout with Duran Immediately.

    Hawk

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