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Even though Bonecrusher is slightly bigger and has good power, I think Ron would outwork him for a good decision over 12 rounds. Is there any Bonecrusher could get to Ron and kayo him?
I agree with blv30's assessment: Lyle was the better rounded and more complete fighter, and he would have outworked Bonecrusher en route to a decision win.
Of course there's the possibility that Smith might have hurt Lyle and stopped him, but I think that possibility is slim at best. The prime Lyle (from 1973 until the 1976 Foreman fight) could take one heck of a shot, and he had sufficient counterpunching acumen to fight Bonecrusher off in the event of any trouble.
Ronnie was a better infighter than Smith. At close quarters, Lyle would have banged up Smith's midsection and he would have scored effectively with uppercuts and short hooks to the head.
I think Smith would have been a tad too muscle-bound to cope successfully with Lyle at long or short range fighting.
Lyle wins this one by a unanimous decision.
Well said, Kenmore. I agree with every word.Originally Posted by kenmore
Lyle was a markedly more talented, more complete fighter than Bonecrusher. And I think was a tougher guy with a better chin and heart. Smith has a puncher's chance like Shavers did, but of course Lyle slaughtered him.
He didn't really slaughter Shavers.
Ol' Earnie dominated, had Ronny down and nearly out and then gassed out and Ron took over and then stopped Earnie. Earnie was nano seconds away from a victory in that bout.
But then agian, Earnie wasn't slow and robotic like Bonecrusher, and his punches exploded quite a bit more than Smith's did, so that comparison isn't all that accurate to begin with.
Lyle take Smith relatively easily IMO.
Hawk
As I recall quite well, Earnie had Holmes down and hurt in their 2nd fight, but I'd say Holmes nearly slaughtered him nonetheless, winning every round before and after the KD round.
THose were the only 8 seconds Earnie won in the 33 rounds Holmes and Shavers fought.
I'm glad your memory of Holmes Shavers II is pretty vivid. But the question I'm having is your recollection of Lyle Shavers, whihc was ANYTHING but a one sided slaughter.
After a pretty good first round by Shavers, Earnie dropped Lyle in the 2nd, Ron BARELY beat the count, which wasn't the fastest in the world. Lyle was then Immediately saved by the bell and the rest period was roughly 2 mins long (Didn't see the bout live. I have gotten the long rest story from a couple of different sources, one being Earnie's book.).
Earnie dominated/controlled the bout until the 4th, hurting him even WORSE (possibly) in that round, when he started to running out of steam and then Ron Ko'd him in the 6th.
Completely different set of circumstances here Micheal.
You might want to actually view Shavers Lyle to see what I am getting at.
Hawk
Last edited by hawk5ins; 09-18-2007 at 04:22 PM.
I have the fight and have "actually viewed" it, but I hesitate to argue with you on facts, which I often am not the master of. I keep picturing Lyle wailing and wailing on Shavers in a truly brutal KO, but perhaps this is coloring my memory of the preceding rounds.
(or not).
Holmes Shavers II is NOTHING like Lyle Shavers.
Hawk
The fight was a blue print of the shortcomings of Earnie as a fighter.
Here is the recipe.
1) Start fast/overwhelm/hurt/floor opponent early.
2) Go for broke.
3) Allow opponent back into fight.
4) Begin to break down mentally which accelerates the physiological breakdown.
5) Gas out/mentally quit.
6) Lose.
Sprinkle it with a dash of disappointment and serve on a plate of what coulda been.
Within that recipe, as it pertains to the Lyle bout, you will not find the word "slaughter".
And I wouldn't say Earnie QUIT, mentally or otherwise agianst Lyle. He simply gassed out, got hurt, took a bunch of hard shots and was knocked out.
I always think Earnie keeps trying. But he DID have short comings. I just don't think it was a Heart issue per se.
Hawk
Last edited by hawk5ins; 09-18-2007 at 05:15 PM.
Lyle-Shavers was pretty back and forth . . Shavers would land some hard flurries with Lyle against the ropes but then Lyle would come back with some pretty nice punches. It wasn't as if Shavers was kicking Lyle's ass and then just gassed out. It was a war, with Shavers having the edge until the 5th round.
Also Hawk, not to nit-pick, but I'd have scored a couple of rounds in Holmes-Shavers I to Shavers. That was a good fight (better in overall action to their 2nd affair save no dramatic knockdown), but Holmes correctly dominated on the scorecards.
10-8,
VERY CLEVER! You, Hawk, and in fact MANY on this board are incredibly clever in how you communicate. Me, I'm lucky if I can get my failing memory to work, much less able to write so stylishly or with such color.
Keep it up, I enjoy like heck reading (and learning) from you guys, in fact more for writing style even than for boxing.
I've seen Lyle-Shavers before, and I'm not sure I would describe Lyle as being "slaughtered" at any point in the fight. Certainly Ron was hurt and very much on the defensive early on, but he was always fighting back hard.
The very fact that Lyle could absorb such an early round beating from a destroyer like Shavers and come back to win tells us a lot about him. Lyle was an unusually rugged and dangerous fighter.
It was suggested that SHAVERS was Slaughtered.
I pointed out that that was not the case.
Shavers was not Slaughtering Lyle, But he was winning, did have Lyle hurt very bad, had him dropped and OUT (had the bell not rung as Ron got to his feet) and IMO, was dominant through the 4th, THEN Gassed out, Lyle slowly took over, Hurt Shavers badly and took him out with a viscious KO.
Hawk
The bottom line on Lyle-Shavers is that it was a closet classic and great 70's heavyweight shootout.
Both guys threw and both guys caught.
The strongest survived.
On all points.
Hawk
I was at that Shavers-Lyle bout and there was no 2 minute rest period for Lyle or whatever Shavers claims.
One of the big things I do recall was thinking Lyle was going to get slaughtered when he got backed into the ropes by Earnie. Sure didn't think he could fight comfortably off the ropes & Shavers probably didn't either. But man, he sure did. How many other guys can fight shavers that way & win?
It was a close hardfought slugfest allright, but the crowd felt all along the further it went, the better for Lyle. It'd be a matter of time before Earnie's parachute opened. Once Shavers got hurt, he stayed hurt and that was a brutal ko he suffered. He was on the mat a long long time & his management did a nice job of rebuliding him. But they sure didn't put him in with any punchers for a long long time.
I think my hands still hurt from clapping and yelling when Shavers went down
& there wasn't million to one chance he was getting up.
I did not see the bout Live or on Tv, when it orginally took place and have only seen the video and there is no mention of a long break by the announcers, which is why when I mentioned this, specifically stated the sources I got this from.
I beleive the second source I read this from was an online recap of the bout which I can't locate now. That source may very well have simply repeated what Earnie said in his book.
Regardless of that (non)-tidbit, it is very likely Ron was saved by the bell ending the second round which rang when the mandatory 8 count was given to him. He was hurt very badly by the knockdown and BARELY beat the count as it was. Such is life though. Earnie had round 3 and 4 to get the job done and he didn't. Though he came very close in the 4th. After that, he was done. Credit Ron for making it through.
What is NOT up for debate here, is the fact that this was a give and take pier sixer. It was in no way shape or form a Slaughter, nor should it be compared to a one sided bout like Holmes Shavers II that featured Holmes getting dropped, but not losing a second of the rest of the bout.
And that was my point all along.
Hawk
All Tribute to Ronnie Lyle for getting up from that Shavers Left Hook...At All !
I think it was Earnie's bad luck to be facing Lyle in Denver, another time another place who knows, but in Denver you would probably have to Shoot Ronnie to keep him down,
I Suspect Bonecrusher would seek to Ambush Ron like he did Witherspoon (2nd) and Weaver (1st) Jump on him quick, pour it on, and hope for the Best, I Like Ron's more rounded ability to ride out any Surges and Hit Back to put Bonecrusher into his shell, James may try a late Rally if Able, he got lucky with young Bruno, but generally think that after James's opening Gambit it depends on how banged up and discouraged he gets as to wether he sticks around to the final bell, he could clinch when called upon, or cries off before the final bell, i think Lyle has the studier constitution for battling back.
Lyle on Points or Late Stoppage.
Lyle-Shavers, what a war! Lyle barely beat an arguably long count in the second. When Shavers went down he pitched forward on his face and you could have counted to a 1000.
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