Greatest British Fighters??

[Surf-Bat]

In the new issue of "THE RING" both the London Daily Telegraph and Ring writer and European correspondent Brian Doogan proclaim Joe Calzaghe to be one of the "top 3 British fighters ever". Furthermore Doogan states that this is "unchallengeable". A bit hyperbolic?

Even if Bob Fitzsimmons is taken out of the equation(he was born in England but was really a New Zealand export) you still have a formidable list of fighters to consider. Heck forget England, is Calzaghe even one of the top 3 ever produced by Wales? Not in my book.

A glance at the records of Jimmy Wilde, Jim Driscoll and Freddie Welsh shows that Calzaghe's ledger absolutely pales in comparison. Do victories over Chris Eubank, Jeff Lacy, Charles Brewer and Mikkel Kessler even compare to Welsh's victories over world champions like Battling Nelson, Johnny Dundee, Abe Attell, Ad Wolgast(several times) and Willie Ritchie(several times)? What about his victory over all-time great Jim Driscoll? Or top contenders like Joe Mandot, Pal Moore and Charley White? All of those contenders have as much or more credibility than Kessler, Lacy, Brewer et al.

Now that I think about it, do Calzaghe's victories even compare to Freddie dueling on even terms on several occasions with Benny Leonard and Packy McFarland?

And what about Driscoll(I won't even mention Wilde)? Compare his record with Calzaghe's and tell me what you think.

I'm not trying to knock Joe. He's an excellent fighter and I'm a fan. I hope he keeps going with his winning ways and continues to bring pride to his wonderful country. But why writers continue to knock old time greats off their pedestals in favor of the new generation long before it's earned is beyond me.

Calzaghe has a long way to go before he mentions merit in the same breath as Wilde, Welsh and Driscoll. It's debatable if he's even in Owen Moran's class. What do you folks think?

[greek1237]

I feel Ted Kid Lewis was the greatness British fighter ever, outside of Fitz of couse.

[jim glen]

Surf-Bat it _ucken' sickens me reading these lists, the people that compile them are stuck in the present - "much exposed & overhyped" media darlings of the last 30 years or less...and so many and I do mean SOOOO Many from past times never got the same exposer!

These writers & reporters are either 'limited' to knowledge of the past or just too damn lazy to do a bit of investigation. They also eat up the hype and live on it, selling there souls just to stay in tune with modern life and everything and everyone that is or has been BIG Headline News, 20 defences and such shit...through Calzaghe, a MW in with a John Henry Lewis, or even a Top British Heavyweight, like Peterson or Farr or Woodcock or Cockell, like the great British Middleweights before him, and Dear God the British weemen, for years Ruled the Ring!

These guys are sickening and even a number of posters over at Boxrec are the same kind of writer/fans, the amount of British fighters that come well ahead of Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, Benn and Eubank (if your fool enough to rate him), is staggering and I've always said that some of these great British Historians & writers owe it to the great English/British sport of Boxing to sing the praises of these great fighters...and God knows there are literally dozens of them.

Who is Britains Greatest (?), I'll leave that to the experts (hopefully the real & honest ones), but in my research and knowledge I can give you a good few names who are among them...

Jimmy Wilde and Jim Driscol, Freddie Welsh, Tommy Farr and a few more Welsh greats I'm sure.

Ted kid Lewis
Jackie kid Berg
Len Harvey
Len Johnson
Jock McAvoy
Benny Lynch
Ernie Roderick
Bert Gilroy
Eric Boon
Arthur Danahar
Bruce Woodcock
Peter Kane
Jackie Brown
Peter Keenan and these men are basically all from the same Era, Boxings Best Era, and all the present media Hyped up men would have been just other fighters at these times, they barely compare.

And the sad thing is there are still many, many more that we will never know about, because of this preasure to stay "High profile and in going with the Sensationalising of the day!"

[KOJOE90]

As is often the case when talking about the history of UK fighters I find myself in agreement with jim glen. As a long suffering Civil Servant here in the UK I am well aware with this countrys obcession with statistics this lazy way of grading everything has seeped into every part of our lives. Including it seems Boxing writers.

Lies, dam lies and statistics.....

As we all know here, there is far, far more to a Boxing career than numbers as jim glen has already pointed out with such passion, and with good reason. Fighters such as Owen Moran, Len Johnson, Eddie Thomas etc seem to have been almost forgotten by many 'Boxing writers' and don't even get me stated on the Boxing immortals such as Wilde, Welch and The Peerless One etc.

I don't claim to be an 'expert' on Boxing but at least I can hold a conversation about the fighters mentioned in this thread I sometimes wonder wether some of these writers even know who they are?

[SigniferSanctusMichael]

It is worth remembering that, for the majority of Fitz's career (including his stints at the top of the Middleweight and Heavyweight divisions) Australia and New Zealand were both Colonies of the British Empire: Australia didn't become a self-governing Dominion until 1901, New Zealand in 1907. Technically, at least until 1901, Fitzsimmons was a British fighter.

[starlingstomp]

I agree with Jim in much of what he says about the boxing writers and general media in this country, but i think he's taking it way too far when it comes to the fighters themselves.From reading many of his posts it seems he doesn't think there's been a single british fighter of any worth since the 40s.

I am no fan of either Calzaghe or Hatton but to lump Lewis(who i am not really a fan of either) into the same category and imply the likes of Woodcock are far better is taking things too far without a more in-depth breakdown and analysis.

[phlboxarc]

My favorite British fighter was southpaw Dave Charnley. Yea, he blew some fights and was upset a couple of times but when he was on his game he was as tough as they come and a highly skilled, hard punching, dangerous opponent for anybody.

[walshb]

For one night only it's gotta' be Randy Turpin....

[starlingstomp]

I tend to think quite a lot of the other notable post-turpin British middles would have defeated Robinson that night.Assuming they were at their best of course.

Not many would have done so as widely as Turpin did, but that's due to styles more than Randy being inherently superior imo.

Ray was very innacurate and at times showed a lack of balance that would have had Tito cringing.

[BDeskins]

I have a slew of favorites from Great Britian, but I guess one of the first of whom I really liked was Owen Moran!