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Thread: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

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    The George Foreman Chronicles: Jimmy Young
    By Russ Greenspan
    Ringside Report.com

    "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within" – Miguel
    De Cervantes, Don Quixote

    Boxing is a sport legendary for the assiduous construction and shattering of its practitioners’ mythologies, often within a disturbingly narrow time frame. In one notable such instance, on a sweltering Kingston, Jamaica night in January 1973, talented but somewhat lightly regarded George Foreman, brutally dismantled heavyweight titlist Joe Frazier within two rounds, flooring the supposedly unassailable Philly favorite 6 times, before referee Arthur Mercante mercifully called a halt to the one sided proceedings.

    Though Foreman entered the fight a 3:1 underdog, he had within scant moments thereafter, all but imperceptibly assumed the now ex-champion's mantle of invincibility, and everything that came with it; that is, until Foreman's own cloak was summarily rent asunder by Muhammad Ali the following October, leaving him dejected, humiliated and on the comeback trail.

    In his autobiography “Big George”, Foreman describes his feelings thus: “Losing had knocked me off my axis. The heavyweight title meant much more to me after I lost it than when I held it. Without it I was nothing. As champ, I’d imagined that people considered me the ultimate man. Now I imagined that I could hear them laughing at the loser.” The laughs continued in earnest, following a televised April 26, 1975 exhibition, in which Foreman took on five challengers of dubious merit, knocking out three. If Big George wanted a rematch with Ali, this was almost certainly not the way to go about it.

    Foreman thereafter embarked on a series of bouts against significantly more legitimate opposition, posting five inside the distance wins against Joe Frazier, Ron Lyle, Scott LeDoux, Dino Denis, and Pedro Agosto. Next on the agenda was a bout against Jimmy Young, an evasive, light fisted ring stylist who had also defeated Ron Lyle (twice), drew with and lost to knockout artist Earnie Shavers, and was beaten by Ali via somewhat controversial 15 round unanimous decision in an April, 1976 title endeavor. Foreman firmly believed that Young would not present him with a significant obstacle inside the squared circle, averring that “Beating him was a certainty; it just wouldn’t be easy.” But Young had other ideas.

    The 12 round contest took place in Puerto Rico’s Roberto Clemente Stadium on March 17, 1977; Foreman was the betting favorite, but entered the arena to a resounding crescendo of boos from the crowd of nearly 8,000.

    True to Young’s reputation, rounds 1-6 were an exercise in futility for Big George, who steered clear of his foe’s attack by moving from side to side, or impeded it by holding on and/or laying back against the ropes; for his part, Foreman repeatedly missed his non-compliant target, and did nothing by way of offensive production save for a jarring blow in the third frame, to remotely discourage Young from his undoubtedly maddening game plan. As had so many others before him, Young intended to test Foreman’s stamina and mettle by taking him into the later rounds; only unlike most of those others, Jimmy seemed well on his way to getting the job done.

    Then the bell rang for round seven, and within moments, a sweeping left hand bludgeon to Young’s head landed with an extraordinarily audible thud, leaving him staggering around the ring from pillar to post. An energized Foreman rapidly pursued his wounded prey, trying with everything he had to finish their encounter; however, Young intelligently survived by alternately clutching and running until he shook off the effects of Foreman’s wallop, and started fighting back in earnest during the stanza’s last minute, even jarring Big George before the bell rang. Young admitted after the bout that “…while I may have been standing, I was out cold. He (Foreman) could have pushed me over with his little finger.” But Foreman did not push Young, who returned to his corner with his arms raised in triumph after the round ended, to a standing ovation.

    Young started round eight with a tactical modification, first circling Foreman, then assuming the aggressor’s role, throwing jabs and combinations at his pursuer. Foreman seemed to go oddly torpid during this frame, doing nothing much other than futilely chasing Young in a quest to halt the rapidly advancing tide; Time was passing, and Foreman was fast running out of it.

    Rounds nine and ten were not unlike most of those which preceded them, as both combatants grew increasingly battle fatigued. In the 11th stanza, Young dominated what middling action there was, snapping reasonably effective left jabs into Foreman’s face and throwing the occasional combination for good measure; Foreman remained purposeful yet ineffective, even falling seriously off balance during one overzealous, amateurish swing at his rival.

    In Foreman’s corner between rounds 11 and 12, George’s red faced trainer Gil Clancy shouted incessantly at his pacing charge, no doubt informing him that a knockout would be required to win the day in old San Juan; Foreman had never gone deeper in a fight than ten rounds before the Young contest, and it showed.

    The former champion ambled laboriously across the ring seconds before the 12th round bell, and was held off by referee Waldemar Schmidt until it tolled. Foreman again moved forward vigorously towards Young, but was soon practically staggering with fatigue, all but welcoming the Philadelphian’s efforts to tie him up.

    Young scored inside with combinations, then countered a wild Foreman right hand miss with a right of his own to Big George’s head; the blow sent Foreman sprawling to the canvas on one knee, and he rose on shaky pins at the count of one. Young spent the balance of the stanza jabbing and moving away from a spent Foreman, and the fight concluded with both men on their feet, and the decision a reasonably foregone conclusion.

    Big George had gone the distance for the first time in his professional career, but the judge’s cards favored Young unanimously, by scores of 115-114, 116-112, and 118-111.

    The Foreman win began the end of Jimmy Young’s career as a viable heavyweight contender; he next lost a disputed 15 round split decision to Ken Norton in a WBC title eliminator, after which according to Young’s cousin (and former middleweight contender) Bobby “Boogaloo” Watts, Young’s heart seemingly went out of boxing.
    Young began losing far more often than he won, first as big name cannon fodder for prospects and up and comers like Gerry Cooney, Tony Tubbs and Tony Tucker, then sadly, against journeyman and club fighters with sub .500 ledgers. Young finished his career with a record of 34-19-2, 11 KO’s, and died of a heart attack aged 56 years, after battling financial, drug and legal problems, along with the onset of pugilistica dementia, traumatic brain injury caused by repeated head blows. Rest in peace, Jimmy.

    George Foreman had an inarguably life changing religious experience following his loss to Jimmy Young. He became ill in his dressing room immediately after the bout, reportedly suffering from heat stroke and exhaustion. But that’s not how Big George sees it. In a 2001 interview with David Mainse, Foreman maintains that he was given a series of visions from God, in which he saw death after being “snatched out of” his body, then returned to corporeal form and born again after pleading with the Almighty for assistance.

    The experience sent Foreman into a decade long retirement, during which he became an ordained minister dedicating his life to preaching the gospel. Foreman returned to the ring on March 9th, 1987 to raise money for the youth center he had started in Houston, Texas; after a series of comeback fights, the 45 year old Foreman became the oldest man in history to capture the heavyweight championship, defeating reigning WBA/IBF titlist Michael Moorer by 10th round knockout.

    George Foreman retired from boxing with a record of 76-5, 68 KO’s, and was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 2003. Now 60 years old, Big George Foreman remains active as a beloved TV pitchman for any number of gadgets, recently became the spokesman for UFood Restaurant Group, and makes the occasional appearance as a boxing commentator.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    Poor Young couldnt get a break. You could argue and with good reason that he whipped Norton, Ali and Foreman. The poor guy had to get discouraged. Ali did nothing with him and Young taunted and laughed at him at the post fight conference. It was a very bad night for the unprepared Ali. That he beat Foreman says alot as very few guys then could have done the same. The Norton fight? I was at a gambling house in the Hood and guys who bet Norton were paying in front of my eyes before that poor decison. Life was not kind to Mr. Jimmy Young.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    He deserved better as a human being without question but the facts are he fought the least prepared Ali ever and did nothing to win as much as Ali did nothing to win ... He beat George when George was at the height of being a head case and that loss was as much to do with poor pacing than anything else and I feel Norton won a clean decision over a game but outpointed Young. The fact that he began to lose so often against so - so opposition while still not old shows he really was not that great .... he was a spoiler as a fighter and a good human being out of the ring ...

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    Jimmy was good, very very good. He stood up to and beat the best of the great heavies. You can't take the foreman victory away from him. To say foreman was a head case at that time is like saying liston was afraid of the muslims before the ali fight. Both came to fight and Jimmy had his hand raised in the end, only 4 other people can claim that. You can't make excuses for foreman after the fact. Jimmy swore up and down he beat norton. He would have admitted if he lost. He told me cooney caught him with a good punch and that was that, he never made excuses if he lost. so when he says he beat norton, I believe him. Not only did he say he beat norton, he was convinced of all his fights,he definitly won that one. Don't forget he went to england and beat dunn and twice beat lyle. Yes, at the end he ballooned in weight and didn't train. After the norton decision, he lost his desire, who could blame him. You do your best in the ring and the judges have their own agendas. He didn't beat Ali to a pulp, but outscored and outworked him in every round.Ali never gave him a rematch.
    I never met a man with a better heart than jimmy.He would give you the shirt off his back. Its ironic heart failure led to his death.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    I am not making excuses, I am stating how I saw and still see it.

    Mentally Foreman was very shakey, having never recovered from the Ali loss despite victories over Lyle and Frazier. The fact that he collasped from heat exhaustion in his locker room after the fight claiming he spoke with Jesus adds to this point. Foreman never learned to relax at that point of his career and fighting a safety first, jab and run guy like Young in 90/90 temperature was a worst case senario for him. I feel the Foreman that many years later fought Holyfield, with better pacing and a strong jab alone beats Young. I give the victory to Jimmy but it was just as much a matter of one guy falling apart as another's great performance. It was dramatic because it played as David v.s. Goliath and because Foreman was so disliked at the time. People today forget just how disliked the old George was just as they forget how despised Ali was by many in the late 1960's.

    The Ali fight was pathetic. Ali was in the worst shape of his career and Young still fought a safety first fight. You don't take a title running and hiding like Young did. Again it was another fight where Young's opponent was poorly prepared. I wonder if anyone here picks Young over even the 35 year old Ali if he was in shape.

    I have watched the Noton fight many times and while I feel it was competitive, I feel Norton won 9-6.

    Young was at his best against big, slow moving punhers like a Ron Lyle who he did cleanly beat twice. Busy fighters gave him trouble as we saw against Ocassio and many others. In his pre-Norton fight he was actually behind on national TV for this huge tune up against (I think) Jody Ballard before having to pull it together and squeeze out win. I remember the announcers saying how Young was about to blow his title shot.

    All said, I liked Jimmy Young and feel he was a cagey, cutie type of fighter. He was a good boxer with a small punch. He was excellent defensively but incorporated it too often into a safety first fighting style that hurt him.

    From everything I read and saw he was a very nice guy who deserved much better in life.
    Last edited by HE Grant; 01-31-2008 at 07:39 AM.

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    How ANYONE

    Could argue Norton Young was a CLEARCUT decision EITHER way is beyond me.

    I frequently make fun of the 3-2-10 scorecard handed in for the first Duran Leonard bout. But Norton Young was probably the closest example of a fight, that was THATCLOSE, that at the end of each round you simply shrugged your shoulders, closed your eyes, and picked a name.

    As frustrating as it was to watch, it was more frustrating to select who won what.

    0-0-15!

    Hawk

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    For what its worth I thought Young easily outpointed Ali. That was a horrible decision. The Norton fight was harder to score but Young just easly outpointed Ali. You can argue that Ali did nothing and was ill prepared (which is obvious since thats probably his worst showing) but thats Ali's fault for it. You dont just give him the win and move on. Young should have that victory on his record.

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    I personally didn't have a huge issue

    With the ALI Young decision for the same reasons He Grant Stated. ALi looked bad and didn't do much effectively. But Young DID? I didn't see it that way.

    Ali Norton III was a MUCH worse decision IMO. I had it 10-4-1 Norton. I always hear Harold Lederman exscuse his scorecard in that bout by saying Kenny gave up the last round.

    Well I agree. Norton Clearly lost the last round. Yet the fact that I had Kenny winning 10 of the previous 14 rounds, really didn't make the last round anything other than throw away round.

    I DO not see how anyone can get in an uproar about Norton Young though. That baffles me.

    Hawk

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    I actually think Norton clearly WON the 15th vs Ali. He was chasing Ali around the ring and punishing him against the ropes.

    Regarding Young-Foreman, I disagree with the whole "Foreman headcase" theory post-Zaire. I think Foreman looked just as good as he ever did vs the likes of Ledoux, Denis, and especially the Frazier rematch. He also won a great confidence boosting war with Lyle. I do think Young-Foreman was very close, with George winning at least 6 of the first 7 rounds as Young was doing nothing, but boy Young displayed great heart by coming back and counter-punching his way to a points victory late.

    Foreman surely was dehydrated and I think a properly prepared Foreman probably finished what he started in the 7th, but Young is with Ali as one of the only two to beat a young George, and you can't take that away from him.

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    Probably right Hags

    Clearly lost the 15th round is too strong.

    I didn't think Kenny landed cleanly in the 15th, but his aggression should get him some points. I still had it ALi's round, but it was irrelevant in the decision IMO.

    Hawk

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    Quote Originally Posted by bodyblow
    For what its worth I thought Young easily outpointed Ali. That was a horrible decision. The Norton fight was harder to score but Young just easly outpointed Ali. You can argue that Ali did nothing and was ill prepared (which is obvious since thats probably his worst showing) but thats Ali's fault for it. You dont just give him the win and move on. Young should have that victory on his record.
    Exactly. Ali was out of shape and took jimmy lightly, thats not jimmys fault. He easily outpointed Ali every round. Yes, he ducked through the ropes. He says the ref never warned him to stop, so he didn't. One warning and he would have stopped. He didn't need the ropes to win the fight. It should have been a win on youngs record. You can't say , well young wouldn't have beaten a prime ali. Probably not, but we'll never know because thats the shape Ali chose to come to the fight in. Young handled norton, who handled a prime Ali.
    As for foreman, Both fighters were in the same ring, with the same heat. If a prime foreman couldn't get to jimmy, how does a foreman who lost to holyfield? Foreman lost to briggs, would jimmy have lost to briggs? No way.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    I thought Young beat Ali and thats all one should have to do. Ali was not able to preform against Young and I have doubts he ever would have able to. Bad matchup for Ali as Young was a very good boxer. Young did what he had to do with a Foreman who was coming off of a great effort against Joe Frazier. YOung Norton? I had it for Young easily but admit it was close rounds. Guess its all what you like. But about 25 guys I had watched it with had Young winning also.
    I think Youngs style just doenst please but to the educated eye he just didnt let one do what he wants to in that ring. Good cagy boxer and a very very underated body banger.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    One thing about Young ducking through the ropes. He did that blatantly only one time. The other couple or three times he did it because Ali basically blundered him through the ropes, trying to muscle him around (Im asssuming thats what ali was doing, it looked like he was trying to belly bump Young, which may have been the case since his belly was his most formidable weapon in that fight).

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    I was in a room with 26

    and they thought Ali won......

    Not true, but irrelevant none the less.

    My opinion doesn't need to be weighted with anyone elses.

    I have NO issue with saying Young won, Unless someone says he CLEARLY won. That's just not the case.

    Ali didn't impress. And IMO NEITHER did Young. I didn't think Jimmy's tactics in the bout set him CLEARLY apart from ALi.

    I have no issue with anyone calling it a 2 round fight either way. 8-6-1 for either seems about right. That is Only a difference of two rounds, many of whihc certainly were not out right clear.

    I personally take more exception with the position Norton Young was a CLEAR decision......EITHER Way!

    Hawk

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    I was rooting for Young against both Ali and Norton, but felt he lost both fights. Not at the time--I was giving Jimmy credit for anything he touched the opponent with at that time--but since then. Jimmy had no excuse for constantly throwing those LITERALLY "pitty-pat" punches that would barely touch the opponent. That's not boxing, and there were often zero "bad intentions" on his blows.

    I, too, liked Young very much as a person, and think he was a credit to the game. But, I think the game would have been miserable had he been heavyweight champ, with his style. Plus he would have lost to the likes of a Leon Spinks (whom I'd favor big) or a Larry Holmes (on whom I would have bet the house). But Young was clever and different, an asset to the division as a 1970s contender.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillyfan
    You can't say , well young wouldn't have beaten a prime ali. Probably not, but we'll never know because thats the shape Ali chose to come to the fight in. Young handled norton, who handled a prime Ali.
    As for foreman, Both fighters were in the same ring, with the same heat. If a prime foreman couldn't get to jimmy, how does a foreman who lost to holyfield? Foreman lost to briggs, would jimmy have lost to briggs? No way.
    I like Young, too, as noted above. But these quoted statements immediately above are hard to swallow, Phillyfan.

    "Young handled norton, who handled a prime Ali." -- You're kidding, right? Young didn't handle Norton, he LOST to him. Had he won the decision, he still didn't "handle" him. He would have "barely edged" him. Norton didn't "handle" Ali, either; he lost 2 of 3, and all were decisions. Even had he won the 3rd...

    And Young on his best night couldn't stay in the same ring with a "prime Ali." Holyfield, too, would have murdered Jimmy on Jimmy's best night. And I mean, Jimmy takes a bad beating in that one. Lazy fighters don't do well with Holyfield. Foreman? Well, Jimmy had the style to trouble George, but to me, the heat beat George far more than did Young.

    Young lost too much in the '70s at the top levels--not to mention his many poor 1980s showings--to say he would have beaten a prime Ali or been any kind of champion. Take a Larry Holmes, then reduce the power of the jab immensely, remove much of the power in the right, cut his physical strength, dilute his stamina significantly, make him lazy, and remove most of the killer instinct, and you have Young. This is not a formula for beating a prime Ali.

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    Had Kenny winning 2 of 3 from Muhammad

    Fight 1 and fight 3.

    But this was NOT a Prime Ali in ANY of the 3 fights.

    Hawk

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    Young beats an inshape, let alone a prime Ali ????? Maybe he beats an inshape Ocassio first...Agreed the robbery of Norton in the third Ali bout a far worse decision ...

    How does Young do against Marciano ? Educated eyes only ...
    Last edited by HE Grant; 01-31-2008 at 08:47 PM.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    Quote Originally Posted by bodyblow
    One thing about Young ducking through the ropes. He did that blatantly only one time. The other couple or three times he did it because Ali basically blundered him through the ropes, trying to muscle him around (Im asssuming thats what ali was doing, it looked like he was trying to belly bump Young, which may have been the case since his belly was his most formidable weapon in that fight).
    I just watched 3 of Young's ducks through the ropes and he wasn't blundered by Ali. Young was getting caught on the ropes and he turned sideways ducked through the ropes and leaned out on his own will. It happened twice in the 13th round alone.

    The referee may have not deducted a point but that shouldn't have restricted the judges from calling it a two point round. A fighter does that to get a break and it's an act of surrender. Like taking a knee when not hurt.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    Michael, I never said jimmy could take a prime holyfield. HEGRANT said the foreman that faced holyfield would have beaten young. I said if a prime foreman couldn't beat Jimmy, how does a plodding foreman who faced holyfield win? Thats how holyfield got dragged into the conversation
    2nd of all, we'll never know if a prime Young could have beaten a prime Ali. Jimmy was Ali's sparring partner at one time. He probably learned a trick or two. Would I bet the house on it, no. But I'm not going to say its impossible either.
    Also, How does holyfield murder jimmy when lyle, shavers, ali, and foreman couldn't?
    Jimmy ducked through the ropes purposely. Why, we'll never really know his thinking on that night. He could have just as easily grabbed ALi behind the head and clinched like Muhammad always did to his opponents.
    Jimmy would not have like to have faced marciano. The smaller, quicker guys gave him trouble he told me.
    And finally, I don't mean to offend anyone, but Jimmy is a sore subject with me. I'll defend him with my dying breath. I just don't want to see anyone try and belittle his career even a little. He was very proud of it . When anyone mentioned the lyle fights, he lit up like a christmas tree. I'll defend his legacy any way I can. Its the least I can do for him.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    I don't see Holyfield having an easy time with a peak Young whatsoever. It's not like Evander was great at picking apart slicksters. Also, Young was not a 'lazy' fighter, he simply fought super-relaxed. "Lazy" fighters don't beat Lyle, Shavers, Foreman, nip and tuck with Norton (who was better overall/had more stamina than Holyfield IMO) Of course he should've stamped his authority more vs Ali, which costs him dearly. But even being as generous as one can be to the Louisville Lip I don't see how it[s any closer than a 2 point win for Young (unless you're perhaps taking off invisible points for the rope slipping)
    Last edited by hagler04; 02-01-2008 at 10:17 AM.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    The Holyfield that fought Douglas beats Young on a decision. Too active, too fast. Still he would not have an easy time of it as no one has an easy time against Young.

    I feel that the second generation Foreman was much more relaxed, threw a consistant, nasty jab and would walk through anything Young could throw. I feel on his jab alone he had a shot although thinking it through a bit it was a long one. As I also wrote, Young was at his best against slow of foot guys ...

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    Philly

    I'm all for defending any fighter that one takes a shine to.

    But You can't get sore when others take exception to lines like those you have stated below, because quite frankly, they are pretty out of line:

    *He easily outpointed Ali every round.

    *Young handled norton, who handled a prime Ali.

    Young did NOT outpoint Ali EVERY round to say NOTHING of EASILY.

    And Young did not "handle" Norton. He may have deserved a C-hair decision (just as much as Kenny was deserving the the c-hair duke he got), but he did not Handle him.

    And Norton won 2 of 3 IMO agiaisnt Ali, but it CLEARLY was not a Prime Ali.

    Exaggeration and hyperbole is going to force folks to take exception with your "defense". And rightly so.

    RE Old Foreman, Young Foreman, Young, Holyfield and Shannon Briggs.

    Old George did not fight like Young George. Doesn't make Old George better, simply different. Patience agianst Jimmy may serve him better. ALthough, I do think the Foreman that DID face Young, was still in his prime, something was missing that seemed to me more than just his stamina issue. Take nothing away from Young, but IMO that bout in San Juan doesn't make me elevate Young above George when rating the 70's Heavies.

    Now I don't get Holyfield's involvement here as Young did not fight like Evander. So saying Old George could not beat Evander, does not mean that Old George automatically loses to Young.

    Evander IMO beats the best of Young. ALthough it would not be easy.

    Likewise, Old Foreman losing to Shannon Briggs? Well agian, different fighters here and if Young could beat Briggs, what does that prove? Old Foreman was an even OLDER Foreman for Briggs. Old Georges' prime doesn't last forever. If the BRIGGS performance get's brought up (And a solid argument can be made that Foreman Actually WON the fight. Kinda like one arguing that Young beat Ali?) Can't one bring up Young's performances agianst Ocasio?

    Of course if one does, it would be wise to say Foreman fights nothing like Ocasio........

    Hawk

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    Pretty well thought out post there Hawk.

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    He

    I have my moments.

    Not all that often, but........

    Hawk

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    okay okay, I'll try and lay off the exaggeration and hyperbole. If you look at youngs career, he was battling on 2 fronts. First in the ring , giving his all and not getting decisions he felt he deserved. On the other front, you had don king and blinky palermo with both hands in his pocket. Ali was Kings meal ticket and after that, larry holmes. So who was Don going to push, not Jimmy.
    After the Norton fight, Jimmy admitted he mentally and physically gave up. If you look at his record, 13 of his losses came after the norton fight. He went from 230 pounds fighting greg page to 190 pounds 2 months later fighting cuillo. Then back up to 222 pounds fighting tubbs 9 moths later. You can see he wasn't focused.
    Also note, even after he basically gave up, he was never knocked out except early in his career against shavers. He was a slick boxer who knew his craft. If you count lyle, foreman, norton, and Ali as the best of that era, than why not include jimmy on that list?
    As for the foreman fight, you can't say exhaustion got to him or he wasn't right in the head. If thats the case, how can you credit Ali with the win over foreman? Exhaustion led to the knockout as well as the heat and having to stay a virtual prisoner a few extra months in kinshasa. If foreman wasn't mentally in any fight, it was the Ali fight. But no, Ali is given all the credit for his performance against george. As for Jimmy, everyone remembers the rope ducking vs Ali but few recall his victory over foreman. If you look at foremans record, after the Ali fight, he knocked his next 5 oponents out in 5 rounds or less. You have to give Jimmy props for #1, going the distance and #2, for getting the decision.
    As for holyfield, we'll never know. But when I took Jimmy to see Grant vs Golata, he was digusted with their performance. These super heavies might be big, but they are slow and I feel Jimmy would have boxed their ears off.
    As for me, when I think of Jimmy Young, I think of the foreman fight. Others might think of occasi, but to me , that wasn't Jimmy Young in his prime.

  27. #27
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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    also, I was wrong to say young handled norton who handled Ali. Its not right to say if fighter A beats fighter B and fighter B beat fighter C, then fighter A would have beaten fighter C. Boxing doesn't work that way. I will say Jimmy was as good as norton, if not better. Also, in their prime, he would have been a tough opponent for Ali.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    Young had no reason in the world to mentally give up after losing a very close decision to Norton. He was in a position to bounce back after a win and get a high paying rematch. Instead he comes in fat and out of shape and loses to Ocassio with about a dozen fights. Then a motivated Jimmy gets a rematch to prove the loss was a case of him underestimating Ossie and he loses again despite coming in the ring in better condition.

    I don't buy the blame it on the promoter stuff. That is for losers. NO one had more reason to do that than Larry Holmes and he never did. That's a huge reason why he went on to be a lagendary champion, his heart, desire and refusal to quit. Young let himself go physically and began to lose. He simply was not strong enough mentally to be a great champion.

    The Foreman who fought Ali believed he was indestructable and was on the top of the world. I feel that Foreman beats Young. The Foreman who fought Young was deeply confused and no where near the same from a confidence level. Reguardless, Young with his strong defense and safety first boxing skills would have always been an annoying fighter for Foreman or most guys. He had that style, not great enough to really overwhelm but fast, hard to hit, great defense and a solid chin ... a tough guy to look good against.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    sorry, not buying it. The foreman you describe would not have gotten off the canvas against ron lyle. Not confident after annhilating frazier? I'll leave it up to the board to decide.

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    Re: George Foreman vs Jimmy Young

    You obviously cannot seperate styles and effects... Foreman outpunching Frazier or Lyle is not the issue. Foreman never doubted he was the strongest kid on the block in a slugfast. It was what happens when his stamina is tested in late round deep water.

    Are you telling me that Jimmy Young does not test a different skill set for George Foreman than a Joe Frazier or Ron Lyle?

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