CBZ Fight Archive Project

[Mike DeLisa]

Guys --

The time has come for us to put together the fight archive project.

We are gonna select a group of fights to archive on a hard drive that will be available to anyone with a similar-sized harddrive. This will be specifically for research and education on boxing.

First I need volunteers for the technical spec committee -- we need to select a brand of hard drive and its size -- I am thinking 500 gig drive -- we also need to determine the best way of encoding the footage from tape and dvd masters.

Second, we need to select the fights that will be identified as the ones for inclusion in the archive. For that, i'd like volunteers for the selection committee.

The idea would be to share -- at the end of the day, everyone involved will have a 500 gig hard drive loaded with a selection of fights and footage (and some rare interviews also).

Anyone interested in helping develop this write me at mike@cyberboxingzone.com

[Mike DeLisa]

HERE IS A POST FROM 2007 AND MY RESPONSE -- I figure to add all of these to the archive, although much of what I ahve is standard lousy quility --



The History of Early Heavyweight Film(pre-Joe louis)

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I've wanted To do A list like this to recruit some of these great boxing minds..
These guys are the heavyweights of early film history.
I'm sure i missed some.. but this is a good starter list.
Please add to the list....

James Corbett/ Vs Fitzsimmons
Bob Fitzsimmons/ vs. Corbett, renactment w/Jeffries?
Jim Jeffries/ renactment w/fake fitz.
vs. Tom Sharkey. Vs. Gus ruhlin #2
Tom Sharkey vs. Jeffries
Tommy Burns/vs. Bill squires. vs. Jack o brien, Vs jack Johnson
Sam mcvea breif boxing with jim Johnson
Sam Langford/ vs. Bill lang, jim Flynn
Jack Johnson/ vs. tommy burns, frank moran, stan ketchel, jim Flynn, jess Willard
Jess Willard/ vs. jack Johnson, frank moran
Jack Dempsey/ vs. Willard, billy miske, bill brennan, G carpentier, T. gibbons, Firpo, Tunney 1 & 2.
Luis firpo/ vs. jack dempsey
Gene Tunney/ vs. Dempsey 1 &2, Henney
Jack sharkey/vs Max schmeling 1, Jack Dempsey, m.walker, Primo carnera, Joe louis.
Max schmeling/ vs. Jack sharkey 1, max baer, Joe louis 1 & 2.
Max baer/ vs. schmeling, Carnera, Braddock, Louis
Jim Braddock/ vs. Baer, louis

NO FOOTAGE OF THESE GUYS I KNOW OF..
Joe choynski
Joe Goddard
Jack root
Marvin hart
Fred fulton
Joe jeanette
Harry wills
George godfrey
Jim Maloney
Jim barry
Johnny risko

PLEASE HELP BUILT THIS LIST WITH EXCLUSIVE KNOWLEDGE(ONLY YOU MAY HAVE) as stated this is pre-joe





MY RESPONSE -- I guess through 1935 you can add the follwing

Jenette available only in the 1945 Johnson exhibition

Wills with Sharkey and Uzcudun

Braddock also with Loughran and Farr -- and a few exhibitions

Baer -- Levisky Exhibition

Schmeling with Stribling

Dempsey -- Lutrell -- one of the most violent & cruel beatings you will ever see

[Mike DeLisa]

Does anyone have the restored widescreen version of Corbett-Sullovan that was made from the paper print at the Library of Congress?

[Senya13]

NO FOOTAGE OF THESE GUYS I KNOW OF..
Jack root
Jim Maloney

1903-07-04 George Gardner - Jack Root (2.5 min)
1927-02-18 Jim Maloney - Jack Delaney (2.5 min)

[Mike DeLisa]

We've got a tech advisor on board and a few others on board. Anyone interested should get in touch with me.

[collins2007]

How is this progressing?

[greek1237]

I dont think Corbett Sullivan was film.

[bodyblow]

He means corbett-fitz. I have it along with the end of the fight and prefight which is missing from the paper print but appeared in the legendary champions doc.

[Mike DeLisa]

My understanding is that the paper print of Fitz-corbett was recently digitized -- anyone know if that is true or available?

[greek1237]

Does it have to be just heavyweights??

How about Gans Nelson 1? Or Nelson Britt II?
Or Ritchie Rivers?

[Mike DeLisa]

All major fights should be archived, not just heavies.

[greek1237]

Just the major fights??

So was Nelson Britt II consider a major fight for the title were Bat Nelson won the crown with a ko over Britt?? The odd thing about the fight is the ko happens off camera lol.

[Mike DeLisa]

ALL bouts prior to 1975 should be preserved -- after that date we need to be selevtive as video came into vouge.

[Mike DeLisa]

LOTS of action seems to happen off camera -- just look at Dempsey v. Firpo -- Dempsey's first visit to the canvas is edited out, as is the first punch that floors firpo.

The punch that supposedly knocks out Ketchel by Johnson is missing -- at least the key frame or two anyway.

Etc etc

I suspect those frames were clipped out to make blowups at somepoint by person or persons unknown.

[greek1237]

Nelson Britt was not edited in regards to the ko. back in 1908?? Or was it 1910 about?. Well they just wonder off camera view, and we miss the knockout. Back than, I suppose depends on the zooming on the camera, you have 2 choices,(And Ring size)
To zoom in, and get some action, like Dempsey Willard or Dempsey Carp, or to zoom out and see the whole ring like Gans Nelson 1.

Zooming in has a draw back because fighters would sometimes wonder off the camera's view. Dempsey Gibbions is a good example of this. From time to time, Dempsey and Gibbions would wonder off camera, and you only get to see the shadows fighting. The problem with Nelson Britt, is that Nelson ko Britt off screen. The hour footage is great, amazing footage. But the ended happen off camera lol.

[greek1237]

What about Robinson Basilio 1 and 2?? Mostly the first fight, one of the greatness fights of all time, just got done watch that war between them. Amazing. Round 11 and round 12 were perhaps the most brutal rounds of the fight.

[bodyblow]

The fighters dont wander off camera in the old fights, the problem is the aspect ratio to which the old films were transferred. It usually doesnt match a modern television screen which means portions of the film (left, right, top, or bottom) are cut off to fit a modern screen. This is the case in several films. Two which come to mind prominently are Dempsey-Willard, and Johnson-Flynn.

Basilio-Robinson 1 is complete. 2 is not.

[greek1237]

I have fight 1 complete. Thought 2 was complete out there some were.

[SigniferSanctusMichael]

There's footage of Choynski sparring with Jeffries, isn't there? Also, there's obviously the footage of Corbett sparring with McCoy, as well as the Corbett-Courtney film. I seem to remember reading that the Corbett-McCoy fight was filmed. Also, I've seen a photo of Corbett sparring with Jeffries in the run up to the Johnson fight: was that filmed?

[bodyblow]

The Dempsey-Firpo film was edited at Tex Rickards request. The original release of the film was accompanied by newspaper articles complaining that Tex Rickard had the film edited to kill controversy that Dempsey had been helped back into the ring against the rules of the sport. Rickard effective removed a piece of evidence. Its interesting to note that there is another version of the film shot from the opposite angle as the theatrical version. This version was shown to US forces in army bases. It is also edited to remove Dempsey being pushed back into the ring.

[Mike DeLisa]

Bodyblow -- first i heard that -- sure would like some documentation. Sounds like bullshit.

Mike

[greek1237]

Dempsey being knockout of the ring is not my problem with the fight, the main problem I have with it is the first knockdown of the fight when Firpo drops Dempsey. That was edited out. You see Dempsey rise from the knockdown, but you dont see Firpo dropping Dempsey.

[bodyblow]

Mike, I hope you are not calling me a liar. When the film debuted there were several articles that discussed the edits. I can dig it up if need be although it matters little whether you believe me, its there to see in both versions and the articles back it up.

[PD99]

The British series of videos THE BOXERS contains a volume on Dempsey. I have it but it's well stored away. Of course it features the Firpo bout and I'm very sure the footage contains Dempsey's first trip to the canvas. At opening bell Dempsey rushes across the ring and is caught by Firpo's right resulting in a flash KD. The action occurs at extreme left of screen and Firpo is partially obscured if I recall correctly. I'm not sure if it's complete footage otherwise.

[Mike DeLisa]

Bodyblow -- I just happened to see your post after all this time.

My reference to "bullshit" was to the story not your veracity!

I would like to see your references if you get a chance to scan them. As I said, its the first I've heard and sounds like "bullshit" press (like much of the press at that time).

But, I am always striving to learn! Ancora Imparo.

Mike

[bodyblow]

Mike,

Ill look for the source. I checked the New York Times and couldnt find it in there so Ill have to go back and dig deeper. As a side the same story was mentioned in Ring Magazine within the last month or two. Im not saying that the count was long or Dempsey was helped or anything. I dont know I just know that at the time Rickard was criticized for having the film edited at that exact moment. Now, to my eyes watching the film of the fight, there doesnt seem to be a large gap where the film was edited but I wasnt at the fight live so i dont know. It was just an interesting addendum, I thought, especially considering it was done to both versions of the film.

[Mike DeLisa]

Ok -- I've already looked through my stuff and can't find anything.

Mike

[brutu]

There is a whole chapter on Jack Dempsey's fight films in the book FIGHT FILMS by Dan Streible(2007).
I do remember reading not only was a bootleg filming of the Jack Johnson vrs Jess Willard fight filmed with a telescopic lens from a hill,but that bootleg version played in Havana Cuba before the official version.
Similarly bootleg footage of the Dempsey vrs Carpientier fight was filmed with a telescopic lens from a tall building near the stadium.
It was stopped while filming was in progrees,but reportly a version was seen playing in London England.

[Mike DeLisa]

There are plenty of "rumors". I don't know the book you mentioned so I don't know if it is reliable.

Guys -- a 500-gig drive with selected archival fight films in say avi format!

Waddya say, guys? I think it is a great idea -- see first post in this thread!

[Mike DeLisa]

PS -- there was a guy willing to sych my radio broadcast of Tunney-Dempsey with the film of the bout -- I finally found the tape so he should contact me!