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Hey Guys,
I'm an elector for the International Boxing Hall of Fame. I got the paperwork from them today with 45 names on it for the modern category.
Question: should I give Donald Curry, Brian Mitchell and Edwin Rosario much consideration? Certainly Jung Koo Chang and Hilario Zapata to just name two, among many others on the list, are much more deserving.
Hey Guys,
No. So far all I have is the modern category ballot. It has 45 names on it and I have to pick 10 of them. Once all the ballots are cast from all of the electors the three with the most votes are ushered into the Hall next June.
There are no "big names" on this list. Some of the most popular and well known names from the recent past are Donald Curry, Michael Carbajal and Edwin Rosario. Some other names many of you know are Tommy Farr, Ceferino Garcia, Freddie Mills and Sammy Serrano.
And yes, Rinty Monaghan is on the list. Another name on the list that I will give strong consideration to is Lloyd Marshall.
My mind is only made up on two of the ten so far.
Eddie Perkins is on the list...Davey Moore is not...
Tom -- that is so odd -- I was just thinking about Jung Koo Chang and Hilario Zapata as Hall of Famers all week -- mainly because I bought the program from their second fight on e-bay! My unofficial votes heartily go to those little big men!
What about old timers -- how does that work? Where the hell is Rinty Monaghan! I love that guy!
Oh... and of the other moderns, I like Brian Mitchell -- he beat Tony Lopez and had a great career as a "Road Warrior." But he never fought Azumah Nelson and that raises some questions for me...
Is Davey Moore the featherweight champ on the ballot? I cannot believe he's never been inducted.
GorDoom
Are there any old-timers on the latest ballot? Ric
Tom, are there any "superstar" names on there? I know
Tommy Hearns ruined his chance by fighting again, but any-
one else of that caliber on there?
How about Eddie Perkins? Is he on the list. TIP
Eddie Perkins is already in the HOF ... Unless my memory bank is more depleted than I already realise.
GorDoom
Man, I thought for sure that Eddie had gotten inducted a few years back. It must be wishful thinking & my memory bank IS more depleted than I thought.
The fact that Moore isn't on the ballot exemplifies why Canastota has become such a fucking joke of a lash up. In the last few years they've inducted some really undesrving fighters yet a truly great champion like Davey isn't even on the ballot.
Another great fighter that hasn't been considered is CBZ member & great lightweight champion, Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez.
Pathetic ...
GorDoom
They don't have Davey Moore but they have Sammy Serrano? is that right?
Frank B.
With all due respect, Michael Carbajal is a "big name", in my opinion.
He certainly should be a "lock".
Irish is correct. Carbajal was a big star. The first fly or under to earn million dollar paydays. He also brought the little guys to the front of the line.
Before him it had be many, many, years before someone under feather was a marquee TV fighter. BUT ... While his first fight against Gonzalez was one of the great bouts of the 90's, the fact that he lost the next two to him may hurt his chances.
Should Carbajal be in? By today's lowered standards, absolutely. Plus they like to have live body's to induct into Canastota. I'd say he's got a real shot.
GorDoom
I think the two Gonzalez losses hurt Carbajal, but his come from behind KO over current star Jorge Arce in his final fight puts him over the top, in my opinion.
Duran last fought in 2001 so he has another year to go.
just wondering if the following names are on the ballot and some thoughts if they should be on the ballot
Iran Barkley
Orlando Canizales
Rafael Ruelas
rocky lockridge
nigel benn
chris eubanks
Bennie Briscoe
marvin johnson
I'd vote for carbajal and collins
it's a joke that eddie perkins is not in the hall of fame. he should have been in years ago. who does the voting, curly, moe and shemp? perkins fought 'em all in their backyards and got screwed plenty of times and still won most of his fights. read the old writeups in The Ring like the time he got screwed against Carlos Hernandez in South America. The problem is that the voters look at the overall records and have little knowledge of what went on before 1970.
Hi Tom -- I know it's a pain in the ass, but could you type in the whole list?
None of the fighters that jyoungfan asked about are on the list.
In terms of me typing everyone who is on the list and posting it up on the net? I'm not sure if I am allowed to do that and I don't want to jeopardize my elector status by doing so.
Hey Guys,
Here is the Modern Category List. An elector has to pick 10 names and of those twn three will be inducted. Some of my picks so far are in bold type...
Georgie Abrams
Horacio Accavallo
Joey Archer
Jose Becerra
Johnny Bratton
Michael Carbajal
Jimmy Carruthers
Jung-Koo Chang
Donald Curry
Hiroyuki Ebihara
Tommy Farr
Tiger Jack Fox (Gordoom do you like?)
Ceferino Garcia
Betulio Gonzalez
Humberto Gonzalez
Yoko Gushiken
Carlos Hernandez
Rafael Herrera
Al Hostak
Harry Jeffra
Peter Kane
Cocoa Kid
Pone Kingpetch
Tippy Larkin
Jose Legra
Raul Macias
Ernesto Marcel
Lloyd Marshall
Freddie Mills
Brian Mitchell
Rinty Monaghan
Masao Ohba
Ken Overlin
Eddie Perkins
Edwin Rosario
Gustave Roth
Lou Salica
Dave Sands
Petey Scalzo
Samuel Serrano
Yoshio Shirai
Kid Tunero
Holman Williams
Myung-Woo Yuh
Hilario Zapata
Thanks for the list, Tom.
The flyweights are usually shunned by the HOF, and guys like Kingpetch and Ohba deserve a shot. Pone Kingpetch was a standout flyweight for years and 3-time champ who has victories over Fighting Harada and Pascual Perez. Masao Ohba was unusually big at 5-5 1/2 for a flyweight and was a great fighter before an untimely death.
I like your mix of choices. Jung Koo Chang really jumps out as an obvious omission and he is not a marginal candidate by any means. It speaks to a bias against lighter weight fighters in general, and Oriental fighters in particular.
Deepak
Good call on the Thai Fly Deepak -- that is one glaring omission from the HOF!
I'm surprised Joey Archer is on the list. I don't believe he was ever champion. He was just elected into the WBHOF in california and didn't show. Might as well throw joey gaimbra on that list as well. california inducted him 2 years ago. I know Art Aragon was elected in california also, but i don't believe he was ever inducted in canastota.
You know, I was surprised with Joey Archer as well.
However, I did some research on him and he did beat some pretty good guys during his time. Archer beat Dick Tiger, Hurricane Carter, Holly Mims, Farid Salim, Denny Moyer and Don Fullmer.
He was Robinson's last fight. I think he ended up at 45-4.
Archer was a superb boxer with no power. A legit middle contender with some good victories on his resume. However despit his sterling record he is in no way an HOF level fighter. For instance his victory over Robinson was Ray's last fight at I believe the age of 44.
When put in context his win over a totally shot Robinson is much less of an accomplishment.
GorDoom
Joey Archer
Born: February 11, 1938 New York, NY
Manager: Jimmy Archer
Height: 5-8
Professional Record: 46-4 (8 kayos)
1956
Oct 7 Donald Bibbs Philadelphia W 4
Nov 8 Danny Jones New York W 4
Dec 21 Danny Jones New York W 4
1957
Mar 8 Whitey Porr New York KO 4
Apr 8 Rocky Ford New York W 4
Apr 29 Rocky Ford New York W 4
May 13 Hiram Vale New York W 4
Jul 8 Bernie Raines New York W 4
Aug 2 Johnny Lissy New York W 4
Sep 9 Danny Jones New York KO 4
Sep 30 Jimmy Landerson New York KO 4
Nov 11 Paulie Griffin New York W 6
Dec 20 Joe Lissy New York W 6
1958
Feb 14 Eddie Prince New York W 6
Mar 17 Joe Lissy New York W 6
Jun 2 Julie Jamison New York W 6
Jul 28 Bernie Raines New York W 6
Nov 5 Ray Sheppard Miami Beach W 8
Nov 25 Willie Estes Hooouston W 4
Dec 1 Willie Estes Dallas KO 1
Dec 9 Ruben Flores Houston W 4
1959
Feb 11 Ken Biggs Houston KO 3
Mar 10 Tony Dupas Houston TW 7
May 12 Tony Dupas Houston W 10
Jul 4 Ralph Lucas Bandera, TX KO 4
Nov 9 Henry "Kid" Burton Tyler, TX W 10
Nov 24 Aman Peck San Antonio W 10
1960
Jan 19 Babe Vance Amarillo, TX W 8
Jun 16 Cheffy Reyna Pensacola, FL KO 2
Oct 24 Joe Rubino New York W 8
1961
Feb 4 Don Fullmer New York W 10
1962
Jun 23 Joe Gonzalez New York L 10
Aug 25 Joe Gonzalez New York W 10
Nov 10 Mick Leahy New York W 10
1963
Jan 5 Denny Moyer New York W 10
Feb 16 Blair Richardson New York W 10
May 18 Victor Zalazar New York W 10
Jul 13 Farid Salim New York W 10
Oct 15 Rubin "Hurricane" Carter New York W 10
1964
Feb 7 Holly Mims New York W 10
May 9 Johnny Torres Boston W 10
May 27 Gaylord Barnes Richmond, VA W 10
Jun 24 Willie James Pittsfield, MA KO 9
Jul 30 Gaylord Barnes Pittsfield, MA W 10
Oct 16 Dick Tiger New York W 10
1965
Feb 20 Johnny Torres Paterson, NJ W 10
Nov 10 Ray Robinson Pittsburgh W 10
Dec 13 Don Fullmer Boston L 12
(For WBA American Middleweight Title)
1966
Jul 13 Emile Griffith New York L 15
(For World Middleweight Title)
1967
Jan 23 Emile Griffith New York L 15
A strong case can be made for:
Harry Jeffra
Ceferino Garcia
Holman Williams
Looking at their records, longevity, and era they fought in,
I believe they should be in.
I'm leaning on Holman Williams and I can not see letting Carbajal in without Gonzalez; Chiquita was the better fighter. Period. I will vote for both, but not Curry. No way. (This is my first year as a voter too)
I voted for both Humberto Gonzalez and Michael Carbajal. Once I really began to examine Carbajal's accomplishments it was clear and plainly evident that he belongs in the Hall. No question about it. From his amateur experience all the way through - the guy was impressive.
I, like crold1, did not vote for Donald Curry.
you can make a good case for fighters who fought in the "Negro Leagues" such as Holman Williams, Tiger Jack Fox and Lloyd Marshall. These fighters could not always get the lucrative or, better yet, important fights that white fighters got in the 1930s and 1940s so they often fought other black fighters, much as the old-time black baseball players did when they played in separate leagues from the white ballplayers.
Betulio Gonzales deserves to be inducted - beat Canto and Oguma, 49 kayos in 93 fights, national hero in Venezuela and a TRUE CHAMPION -- he actually is the first, so far as I know to DECLINE an alphabet bout that was to be awarded to him following a draw agaisnt Erbito Salavarria!
What about Pone Kingpetch -- anybody jonesing for Pone? Besides me and Deepak...
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