100 Boxing Books, I own, that I recommend:

[Boxscribe]

Clay - I read the King book a while back and I wondered afterwards how the guy still has the cheek to perpetuate the same old!! It's amazing the guy is still walking the earth the amount of people he has pissed-off. What a character (a very unsavoury one, but a character non-the-less). A great book.

Speaking of great books, I finished your Langford bio on Saturday night and just wanted to add to the chorus of praise. Well written, well researched and a superb read (great photos too). You have done the man proud.

Sam Langford - now there was a real character (and one you would be happy to know).

[Adeyinka]

Anyone here read the new book on Sonny Liston by Rob Steen?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sonny-Liston...3218581&sr=1-1

Joe:

That's a re-release from a 1993 effort. I believe the re-print is all to do with an impending movie on Liston starring Ving Rhames.

Steen is a journalist / Lecturer and the book is punctuated with inventive phraselogy. It starts with an essay bemoaning the shortcomings of boxing culture since it's inception and there is quite a lot on the history of mob involvement and the IBC's stranglehold on the sport in the 1940s and 50s. Some would argue too much information -the criticism of Tousches's effort- at the expense of more knowing more about the private Liston.

There's also coverage of Liston in the context of the civil rights era which David Remnick and Tousches have since repeated.

I won't be updating my copy, but I find it a very good read.

[cmoyle]

Don, thanks re: Langford.

"I read the King book a while back and I wondered afterwards how the guy still has the cheek to perpetuate the same old!! It's amazing the guy is still walking the earth the amount of people he has pissed-off."

Exactly, with all the people he has royally screwed over the years, I am amazed by that as well.

[hawk5ins]

Kimball's Four Kings in the mail today (and No Clay, I did not tear the cover jacket in half as I did with your gem of a book on Sam Langford. That STILL kills me to this day!).

Did some flipping through the book as I usually do. Hit upon Kimball's recalling the 77' US Boxing Championships.

Kimball repeated what many have accused the Late Mark Kram of doing when he wrote a puff piece on the tourney in S.I. He also mentions how he was quietly dismissed from Sports Illustrated, when everything came tumbling down with the tourney.

Man. I wonder if George is going to get a phone call from Kram's son like I did and get threatened with a law suit? Man for the sake of fair play, I hope so! I simply mentioned that in an Amazon.com Review. George mentioned in his book!

I'm being glib here of course. I hope Kimball's book is a great success. I can't wait to dive into it. BTW, in the photo section, there is an awesome looking photo of a young Hagler with hair. It looks so odd.

A wonderful welcome to my book shelf!

Hawk

[cmoyle]

Hawk, congratulations on opening the packaging containing your new book without ripping the dust jacket in half! Email me at cmoyle@aol.com with your address and I might be able to surprise you with a new dust jacket one of these days. The publisher just placed an order for more books and is getting some extra jackets with the order. But if I do that, can you get somebody else to open the package package for you when it arrives?

[hawk5ins]

My 8, 6 or 2 year old will be more successful than Me!

Thanks Clay!

Hawk

[hawk5ins]

at times is legendary.

But I picked up a copy of: "Jeff Fenech, I love youse all" at a discount book store.

Anyone read this yet? It's sitting in the back of the line (of 6 other books) waiting to be read, but I'm interested if anyone has any thoughts on it.

It only cost me $3.00, so it's not like it's going to greatly disappoint me if it's no good. And conversely, if it is, bonus!

Hawk

[brutu]

Anyone here read the new book on Sonny Liston by Rob Steen?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sonny-Liston...3218581&sr=1-1

Yeah,I recieved my copy the other day.
No doubt it is a re-print of Rob Steen's 1993 book under a different title in paperback.
That 1993 edition was only published in England.
Its a really interesting and well researched book.
I remember about 10 years ago I tried to get a copy to read through inter-library loan,but the library that had a copy would not lend it out.
They were copies selling for two hundred dollars just a few months ago on-line.

[hawk5ins]

a bit through the Fenech Book last night.

It looks interesting and somewhat informative, but It also looks like it's going to be an extremely quick read.

Fights are discussed in about a parapragh or two.

Maybe I'll be surprised and find there is more to it.

Hawk

[KOJOE90]

Ade & Brutu.

Thanks for the info.

[hawk5ins]

But for those who have NOT read it......go Read George Kimballs' Four Kings.

I have now read it cover to cover twice.

There is NOT a better source for all four of these fighters and the fights they participated in.

It is so THOROUGHLY researched and well written.....

It's just a no brainer MUST read folks.

Put it on your to do lists.

Hawk

[Surf-Bat]

But for those who have NOT read it......go Read George Kimballs' Four Kings.

I have now read it cover to cover twice.

There is NOT a better source for all four of these fighters and the fights they participated in.

It is so THOROUGHLY researched and well written.....

It's just a no brainer MUST read folks.

Put it on your to do lists.

Hawk

Has it changed your view on any of the fights covered therein?

[hawk5ins]

And to be honest, I wasn't expecting it to. Alot of what I read was bringing back faded memories of each fight. But where the "New" or completely forgotten information came in was infor leading up to and following each fight.

Some of it was confirmation of information that I had been seeking when discussing some the fight fights and others were revelations.

Again, what I like so much about Kimballs book, when he takes information from a Steward or an Arum, or a Petroneli or an Eleta or a Trainer, HE, Kimball does not pass off their word as fact when they are weighing in with an opinion.

Kimball tells you scenario and then he lets them weigh in on it with ther perspective.

He won't present something as irrefutable fact and then quote a Manny Steward and go "See, it has to be true."

It does discuss Weights fighters weighed for certain bouts, prior to opening up camp, although it doesn't hit every weight for every fighter.

As You recall Surf, we have discussed Ray's prefight weight for Hagler. It didn't actually give that, but a piece of info from Ray, does contradict some info that I had thought to be the case, in that Ray said he began training, even lightly for close to a year prior to the Hagler bout. Now training, light or serious, still does not shake the rust off of you when you have been out of the Ring for 3 years, but it helps keep you in better shape that is for sure.

But as far as prefight/pretraining weights go, Ray stated that for the 2nd Duran fight in New Orleans, he entered camp weighing 170 pounds. Whihc was still much closer to 147 than it was for Duran who apparently was close to 200 Pounds when the negotiations got underway in August and the bout was signed in early September.

Still, 170 walking around weight when Ray was still a Welterweight, surprised me a bit.

Hawk

[walshb]

For Ray's rematch with Duran in 1980 it is said he was weighing 170 (camp entrance&his admission).

Well, 10-8, if you are listening, surely it's not surprising to believe that in 1986 or 1987, Ray may easily have weighed 170 lbs. This was after all, a full 5-6 years later and Ray was much more mature; and technically retired and less active!

That indicates to me that Ray was coming down in weight to meet Hagler.

[Surf-Bat]

And to be honest, I wasn't expecting it to. Alot of what I read was bringing back faded memories of each fight. But where the "New" or completely forgotten information came in was infor leading up to and following each fight.

Some of it was confirmation of information that I had been seeking when discussing some the fight fights and others were revelations.

Again, what I like so much about Kimballs book, when he takes information from a Steward or an Arum, or a Petroneli or an Eleta or a Trainer, HE, Kimball does not pass off their word as fact when they are weighing in with an opinion.

Kimball tells you scenario and then he lets them weigh in on it with ther perspective.

He won't present something as irrefutable fact and then quote a Manny Steward and go "See, it has to be true."

It does discuss Weights fighters weighed for certain bouts, prior to opening up camp, although it doesn't hit every weight for every fighter.

As You recall Surf, we have discussed Ray's prefight weight for Hagler. It didn't actually give that, but a piece of info from Ray, does contradict some info that I had thought to be the case, in that Ray said he began training, even lightly for close to a year prior to the Hagler bout. Now training, light or serious, still does not shake the rust off of you when you have been out of the Ring for 3 years, but it helps keep you in better shape that is for sure.

But as far as prefight/pretraining weights go, Ray stated that for the 2nd Duran fight in New Orleans, he entered camp weighing 170 pounds. Whihc was still much closer to 147 than it was for Duran who apparently was close to 200 Pounds when the negotiations got underway in August and the bout was signed in early September.

Still, 170 walking around weight when Ray was still a Welterweight, surprised me a bit.

Hawk

Good lord. We're only in our 40s and already our memories are "faded"!*L*

You knew where I was going with this, didn't you(re:SRL-Hags)?

Good catch.

Thanks for the info on the book. I'll give it a read and soon.

[hawk5ins]

And if Ray's word is to be taken as gospel here, than his training for nearly a year prior to the Hagler bout would indicate he was far closer to fighting weight for the bout than I would have thought.

I beleive I have debated at length with TKO11 that Ray was coming down to 160. This info may still make that true, but not from the 175 that I had made my point being earlier.

Again, this still doesn't get rid of RING RUST, but getting into fighting shape and to his day of fight weight was obviously an easier task than I had originally thought.

Hawk

[mike]

the arc of boxing by mike silver is to me, an instant classic. it is astonishing in its insights and depth of knowldge on all facerts of boxing and its history. to me , this is trully unique and imo the best boxing book i have ever seen. a master 200 plus page document on boxing and its history. thanks

[hawk5ins]

That came out earlier this month didn't it?

Need to save my pennies though for that one. $55.00! Ouch!

Looking forward to it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&v=glance

Hawk

[mike]

it just came out. one of the unique things of this book is its sheer depth mr. hawk. top trainers , historians,and boxers talk, at lenght, not just a few paragrahps here and there, but pages and real ,real thought and discussion on boxing techniques, training, strategy, psychology through the 20s to the present. because it is taken very seriously with so much research and proper introspection, it is simply unique. i have never read anything so seriously in depth on boxing with so much knowledge. frankly mr. hawk you will be as flabeggasted as i was, happily. it is for once--55 dollars well spent on sheer quality. i say woooow--thank you

[hawk5ins]

Silver has proven to be nothing if not excellent. So I easily take your word for it.

A while back, I picked up Bertram Job's BOXING.

It was a Very large book and well done. I have a couple of issues with it, but it was very thorough so I can only recommend it very highly.

From the way you describe Silver's book, it's the size, volume and TOP NOTCH quality wrapped up into one that sounds like a must have.

Let's see, Verizon bill or Boxing Arc..............

Slam Dunk!

Hawk

[mike]

mr. hawk - i definately take your word to heart concerning mr. job's boxing book. this book is all quality with insights and extreme analysis of what boxing at its best , near best, and what fighters try to attempt to accomplish in their own way, style, charater, and regards and disregards as far as pain and the the realities of what is to be expected in the professional lifes of professional boxing ,of which say 60 fights before the title shot, if lucky, would mean not just learning the craft against others, like minded, in series of say a dozen 6 and 8 and ten rounders but also the very sought out and nessary formulas to deal with all sorts of styles--all this was porpusely framed- that was part of the formula- to try to bring real thinking, and real hard fought as well as hard thought carreir accomplishment to their fighters. and yes---fighting so frequently, somethimes abit battered was part of the realitiy. it was not never really a pull out if too battered for the next bout - just a question of stareing reality in the face of ,--the at times brutal reality --- and knowing this that was part of the profession they chose; at that time. some of this is just some of things in this treatise. it is 200 or plus pages, mr. hawk, but they are longer than usual pages and the usual type is employed--, alot of thought by these fighters and trainers were given---at all--and no part of this document is slapped togher. it seems mr. silver made very concsciuos effort that this was to be a very important, intelligant, detailed,insightful--if possible--piece of work worthy of the boxing and many of its top practioners that is sheer learning, craftmanship and art---be it obvios examples of say robinson to the craft that say a tough, enduance, trick filled mind of a lammatta.may think of in his own crafty way. i did amazon. you will not like it --you will love it.

[hawk5ins]

Thank YOU.

Hawk

[mike]

mr. hawk--thank you and be assurred--none of your thoughts on boxing very far from the insights in this -a document--its just some very important thoughts were analyized to the very limit it could be thought of ..we both can thank mr. silver and the boxers and trainers and experts whom all actually thought very hard about alot of boxing and its history. thank you

[hawk5ins]

You are doing a wonderful job of getting me to spend my money here!

Does Silver have you on his payroll?

HA!

Hawk

[DscribeDC]

The Lieblings are obviously great.

Never read the McIlvaney book, but the best piece of boxing writing I ever read was his magazine story on the death of Johnny Owen, compiled in a collection of great sportswriting.

Roger Kahn's Dempsey bio A FLAME OF PURE FIRE is highly recommended.

[hawk5ins]

Was a reprinting (with newer articles added) of His 1982 Book: McIlvaney on Boxing, An ANthology. (The new Title was taken from the Introduction entitled "The Case for the Hardest Game" whihc was originally published in London in Aug of 82.

Both editions have his masterpiece of Johnny Owen "Jonny Owen's Last Fight".

McIlvaney has always been one of my favs.

Even if I disagreed almost completely with his Article on Leonard Hagler: "The Illusion of Victory."

Agree or no, the man could write!

Hawk

[Overhand_Right]

Man. I wonder if George is going to get a phone call from Kram's son like I did and get threatened with a law suit? Man for the sake of fair play, I hope so! I simply mentioned that in an Amazon.com Review. George mentioned in his book!

Hawk

Holy crap!!

So thats why my Kram review got deleted from Amazon.

Never got the email from his son though.

In fairness though, it was Kram who committed the crime. Whats the big frickin deal, we're not allowed to discuss it?

[Overhand_Right]

I have to say with a heavy heart i finished the Roberto Duran book.

What on earth is now going to replace that page turner, i don't have a clue. Amazing read.

Any suggestions?

[Zevl]

I took hawk5ins advice and ordered a copy of George Kimball's "Four Kings". I concur with him, it was an excellent read and recommend it if you enjoyed the Duran biography, which was also a great read.

Alot of the writing about the fights itself was pretty standard stuff...stuff that I'd read about before, but the reporting of the behind-the-scenes machinations and stories makes this book a very compelling read.

[hawk5ins]

See ZEVL's Post following yours.

And to be clear about Kram's son......it wasn't an Email.....He CALLED ME at Home! (How he got my home # was my OWN damn fault. It's not like he did anything clever to obtain it.)

But then agian, I've had Ron Borges call me at home inviting me to come down to the Boston Globe front lawn to "Kiss his ass" in public (or route 128 to be exact), so it's not like calls of these nature are actually foreign to me!

I Know. Shocking.

Hawk