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Now here's one that iv'e never seen as a fantasy fight. I know how much Ali hated people jabbing back at him , so how do you think this fight would have played out? I would have gave it to " The Greatest" via 15rd decision in a very hard fought classic battle.
Recalling Pinky being out-jabbed by Mike Weaver for 6 rounds until Thomas finally lowered the boom, I can't see him giving a prime Ali any kind of contest.
Pinklon Thomas was maybe the best heavy in the world for most of 1984, Ali's status rates a bit higher.
I'd take Thomas.
Hawk
The 1966-67 Ali by easy decision, a cakewalk and no scratches on him.
Ali danced, Thomas was flat-footed. So I think Pinky misses those return jabs.
Hawk - I agree with that call. And might even put some money on it.
Maybe.
About Ali not liking being jabbed. Terrell's jab worked beautifully against stationary opponents, but it was rendered completely useless against Ali (Clay). Movement, speed, and timing, kill a good jab.
I'm just gonna' reiterate and regurgitate what most of your have been saying in here. Pink was not exactly a fleet-footed boxer. He liked to shuffle in behind a strong jab (I believe he was a converted southpaw) and hook off that jab. His lack of mobility and quickness would have been his undoing against the ultra-mobile Muhammad Ali, especially if we're talking the vintage Ali (1966-67).
If Ali didn't stop Pink in the later rounds, he'd breeze to a comfortable, one-sided unanimous decision,
-Randy G.
Originally Posted by Rafael
I'm sorry but Thomas was a much better fighter than Terrell, and Pinklon's jab was both faster and harder than Terrells.
While I agree that -at his best- Thomas' jab was better than Terrell's, Ernie had an excellent jab too. In any event, my point is that both guys' jabs could look formidable against stationary guys, but I reckon that Ali's speed and mobility would neutralize them. Just my opinion.
Rafael,
I understand what you're saying...but i can't see Thomas looking as pathetic as Terrell did vs Ali. Thomas was a much more versitile for than that, and the guy could move on his toes when he had to.
Last edited by evander; 05-28-2008 at 05:36 PM.
I never really saw any versatility in Thomas.
He was mostly a basic one-two orientated heavy.
This is not even close. I saw Pinklon vs Holyfield who showed a little mobility, not quit as fast as a yound ali, not the mobility Pinklon offered nothing. His great jab was completely nullified, he got hit with every combination Holyfield through, who at the time was not a seasoned heavyweight yet, he was only 19-0. I believe this was only his 2nd fight at tha weight limit.
Based on styles and what we saw from him vs Holyfield which is as close to what he would see in a young ali (on his toes, putting punches together, good hand speed, good jab himself), then when he was reall peak vs Tyson and then later vs Morrison...He simply would not be able to stop the jab of ali's, the over hand right and left hooks of ali's that everybody mentioned above caught him with at will, and he would have problems jabbing vs the young ali as he did vs Holyfield.
Not even close.
LOL!! You never saw a prime Thomas then. He was a shell by the time he fought Holyfield. Watch his fights vs Tillis, Weaver and Whitherspoon, then you'll see something. Ali would still win IMO but not that easily
He was only 30, with a total of 33 fights at the time he fought a lightheavy weight that moved up recently. I saw a lot of his fights, and he did have a good jab, I cant justify picking him over Ali based on beating fighters like Quick Tillis.
I pretty much mentioned the Holyfield fight since this was the closest thing I saw which would resemble some of the factors he would have to deal with in fighting a young fast Ali. The movement of Ali would cause thomas major problems and IMO render his jab ineffective, especially since at the time ali not only had the speed and the reach advantage..I believe they both were roughly 6"3.
Again based on what I saw he was easy to hit right overhand rights, and would not be able to deal with the speed and combination punching of Ali.
OK, we are going back to the usual mistake people make in these fantasy matches. As evander said, Pinklon was a pathetic shell of his former self in the Holyfield match. If you are going to pick that version of Thomas, you might as well pick the Ali who fought Holmes as his opponent. Best Thomas still gets shut out by best Ali, in my opinion, but come'on, the Pinklon of the Holyfield fight would not lay a single glove on best Ali.
I can go with that...... I did see previous fights however but I am not in a position to remember specific areas of interest or concern. I am big on looking at a fighter in his peak, so if you all who have better memory of Pinklon during his peak than I do, suggest that by the time he fougth Holyfield, and treveor Berbick that he was shot, then I will go with that.
I struggle to believe that he was on par with a Peak Ali (clay) however.
We want to use the Ali of 1984 and the Thomas of the Holyfield fight, I'm changing my pick to Ali.
Hawk
I'll agree with you on that, except for the shut out part. I think it would have been a bit more competitive.
Petey's observation get ignorned here?
Mike WEAVER, OUT Jabbed Pinklon THomas.
And that was a stationary fighter.
WHAT is Thomas going to do with Ali (Um, 64 not 84, Btw.)?
What performance of THomas' in HIS PRIME (no let's not waste time here discussing the Evander Holyfield performance. SHEESH!) would suggest that he could be competitive with a fighter that possessed the speed, jab and overall skill level of an Ali?
Why not break down a performance of Thomas' in his prime and point to the successes he had and how they would apply when matched up with Ali.
Hawk
Call me crazy, but I'd pick the Cassius Clay of '64 who made Liston quit in his corner to beat Thomas at his best.
OK, newpoppop: this one was almost too much. I almost spit out some of my awesome martini when I read this. You need to give me a warning if you're going to offer such bons mots.
[Uh, just in case someone doesn't get it . . . Well, heck with it. If you don't get it, I don't give a rip. But I'll take a sip of this awesome martini in honor of newpoppoppoppoppoppoppop . . . Jeeze, stop me! Hawk5555555555555555ins, help!]
Last edited by Dan Gunter; 05-29-2008 at 08:14 PM.
Prime vs Prime?
Ali does to Pinky what Ali did to Terrell.
Oh and on the undercard Joe Louis beats Tony Tubbs.
THat's a lot of 5's. And You should talk Dan. Do you realize how much "Spray" is all over my lap top thanks to you?
And KOJOE,
Very Nice.
Hawk
Any fantasy fight to me is on the best night either fighter ever had.
Ali destroy's Pinklon, jabbing the freshings out of his face, total mismatch, Ali rains on him stopping him within 9 rounds.
KoJoe90, Louis beats Tubbs in the prelims, You had me laughing fit to bust.
No way.
Evander, I'll respectfully go with Ron ver batim here.
Ali could do it all except stand and slug like Shavers. Thomas was a ponderous jabber whose prime consisted of beating Witherspoon. I don't even give him great credit for beating Weaver, who was dishing it out well before Pinky nailed him and who lost to a lot of guys. Pinklon then lost the title to Berbick--inexcusable for a guy who hopes to even compete with a prime Ali.
The problem to me is that Pinklon is just made for Ali--Ali is fast, Pinky isn't, Ali moves well, Pinky doesn't . . . 1967 Ali eats him for lunch. So does 1964 Ali or 1971-72 Ali. Barely ever catching a punch himself.
Now, maybe with 1976 Ali you have a closer fight, but that's not the best Ali.
Ali would beat Thomas, no doubt about that. And as much as Ali's my #1 fighter...he's not going to put Thomas to sleep. I have seen tapes of both fighters just like the rest of you(except for Ron because he was probably there), and all i'm saying is that Ali would not destroy Thomas that easy. Say what you will but the fact of the matter remains...is that Weaver( a true puncher) hit Thomas with his best and couldn't put Thomas away...so how would Ali have done it? A prime 2fisted Tyson was the only fighter to ever legitimately KO Thomas, and it still took him about 7 or 8 shots to put him down. Ali would have won a decision but not completely one sided.
Last edited by evander; 06-02-2008 at 06:39 PM.
LOL. Best quote so far.
I have to agree here. Pinklon had a cast iron chin that took many bombs from Weaver, Coetzee and yes, Tyson. In fact I'd say that there isn't a heavyweight Tyson fought in his whole career who could have taken as many flush bombs as Thomas did without going down. Ali would win a wide UD, but no way does he KO a prime Pinklon. Ali didn't KO iron chinned fighters(the Bonavena KO aside, which was probably the single greatest punch Ali ever threw, similar to SRR's KO of Fullmer- both never to be duplicated).
Last edited by Surf-Bat; 06-02-2008 at 07:37 PM.
I've seen Thomas vs WItherspoon and Weaver along with his later fights.
Nice snapping jab . . athletic guy. Beyond that a very basic fighter. I would actually bet some good dollar the Terrell of 1965 outpoints and outjabs Thomas. Pinklon didn't have a solid amateur background and it showed a great deal, his defense was mediorce, he basically kept firing the same punches and combinations over and over again, and he never paced himself very well (he'd look great for 2 rounds and then have to take the next 2 off).
The Ali of the Patterson and Terrell fights stops Thomas late as the ref calls off the one-sided contest.
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