Archie Moore: Simply Beautiful to Watch ....

[HE Grant]

I recently TVOD Archie v.s. Jimmy Slade and once again find myself almost spellbound at what a beautiful fighter he is to watch ... every punch, feint, movement are carefully calculated and exceptionally graceful ... while I do not feel he was the absolute best light heavyweight ever, I do feel he was up there .... watching him makes me realize the road so many black fighters had to take to have a shot at having their shot .... while I do not believe the films exist I can only imagine how exceptional the young and prime Ezzard Charles and Charlie Burley must have been to beat this man (Archie) in his own prime ... we all have certain fighters we love to watch and I am amazed by watching Archie Moore ...

[mike casey]

Well said indeed, HE - I agree with you 100 per cent - great comment!

Archie was frozen out for years - and took some beatings from his illustrious contemporaries like Charles and Burley - but he just kept plugging away, learning his trade ever more.

I think he was an absolute marvel.

[Surf-Bat]

I have a film of one of his fights with Bivins and it made me realize how underrated he is as a jabber. The guy's left was a thing of beauty. It had a downward trajectory and seemed to chop at you like a hatchet.

Archie was a mechanic in the ring.

[hawk5ins]

At least for me, was his personality and ability to tell stories. It complimented his ring style almost to perfection.

In that, you could almost not imagine, a fighter with that style and grace of a fighter, NOT having the personality that he possessed. And from the other side, how could a fighter who possessed such a personality who could spin stories in the manner he did, fight any other way than the way The Mongoose did?

It seems impossible.

His out of the ring persona, complimented his in the ring style like no other fighter or athlete, I have ever seen.

Hawk

[mike casey]

Surf, Hawk - you do Archie justice.

Agreed on all counts, gents.

Lovely thread this - and utterly merited!

[HE Grant]

Not to mention what a puncher ... it's rare to see a man move like he moved and punch like such a hitter ... he's just one guy I can watch over and over again and learn something different every time ...

[mike casey]

Bloody right, my dear Mr G!

[hawk5ins]

Traits and aspects about him that were so appreciable, that one could envision the boxing equivilant of a "Tastes Great...Less Filling!!!" Debate, about what it was that made Moore such a wonderful fighter.

Hawk

[Surf-Bat]

someone once wrote that watching Moore work someone over was like watching a mechanic on aan engine- a little tinkering here, a little tinkering there....next thing you know the transmission falls out.

[Boxscribe]

"The early rounds of an Archie Moore fight always remind me of a guy opening the hood of an engine and exploring around inside for the weaker spots. Only, when he finds these, he doesn't repair them. He makes them worse. It's a trick a lot of mechanics have, but with Mr. Moore it's a high art form. a loose bolt here, a slick valve there, and by the time Arch has got through tinkering, the transmission falls out."

Jim Murray

I used the exact quote in my book on Burley. What Moore had to say about Burley and Booker et al, makes you realise how good the middleweights of the 40s were.

Archie was class. What would you give for a guy like that to be active today?

[pendleton23]

In your opinions what footage of Archie is there that shoe him at his best?

[kikibalt]

A friend of mine posted this in another forum, with his permission, I'm posting it here, btw, he knew Archie Moore well.


I remember something Archie Moore used to say when it came to discussing boxing. He said he got it from Sam Langford. It was about where to hit an opponent. Archie used to say that if you could find during the fight where your opponent felt the most pain when a punch landed,then work that area. Moore said he´d listen for a fighter to wince or groan from a particular punch. When he got that signal,then he´d focus there. Archie said sometimes fighters hit an opponent repeatedly in one particular spot not causing much damage. Moore said one time he was fighting a guy early in his career and was landing everything. Nothing. Then he said he got into a clinch and tapped the guy on top of the head. The guy moaned. Archie went for the top of his skull again and the guy was out cold.

I sure do miss that guy.

[gazot]

I have read before that Moore said Landford was his favourite fighter. Does anyone know if they ever met? I would love to hear more thoughts Archie had on Sam, if anyone has any quotes please post them. What a fight if both were matched at light heavy aswell!!

[KOJOE90]

watching him makes me realize the road so many black fighters had to take to have a shot at having their shot .... while I do not believe the films exist I can only imagine how exceptional the young and prime Ezzard Charles and Charlie Burley must have been to beat this man (Archie) in his own prime ...

Don't forget the remarkable Eddie Booker a sometimes forgotten fighter who was also avoided and badly treated like Moore, Charles & Burley etc.

Moore never managed to beat Booker in three fights.

As far as I know there is no film of Booker in action.

[mike casey]

Glad this thread has come alive again.

You're quite right about the great Eddie Booker, KO.

Hank Kaplan sent me his top ten middleweight list a couple of years ago and rated Booker 10th - some tribute to Eddie.

No, I don't believe he is on film.

[tedsares]

The thing about Booker I awalays found amazing was that in his last 3 fights , he beat Archie Mooer by TKO, Frankie Nelson by pts and Holman Willims by PTS. Not a bad way to go out.

[Boxscribe]

I don't want to steal any of Archie's thunder, but as he and Eddie were buddies, I'm sure he would understand.



http://charleyburley.com/page13.htm

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/booker-e.html

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=206137699

[tedsares]

Thanks for the links, Boxscribe. They go in my Old School folder.

[mike casey]

Me too, Box - good stuff!

[KOJOE90]

Did Archie Moore take a dive in the 1st round against Leonard Morrow in 1948?


http://www.boxrec.com/show_display.php?show_id=14157

Or was he just caught cold?

[PeteLeo]

I'd like to see the footage.

But, for all of his unquestioned greatness, Archie was sometimes susceptible to the big punch. From the description, this bout sounds rather like Moore's first round nightmare against Durelle, except that Moore wasn't able to hang on and come back. Six or seven KO losses over a career as long as his aren't an indictment of his chin, but they do hint that he could be hurt when reached (especially since the stoppages are spread out over the years instead of clustered at the beginning or end). PeteLeo.

[phlboxarc]

Leonard Morrow was a great puncher and a good boxer. People forget that years ago guys like Moore were facing dangerous fighters a dozen or more times a year, not like today when the top guys only fight a few times a year and can focus months of preparation on their opponent.
The guys, years ago, fought often just to survive and suport their families and at times , traveling all over probably faced many day to day problems, from marital and family where your focus might be affected differently than a Roy Jones, DeLaHoya, Maywether who make enough from a few annual bouts where they are not as accessable to being caught cold by a dangerous guy like Leonard Morrow. Or like Ezzard Charles was caught by Fitzie Fitzpatrick who was robbed of a KO over Charles in their 1st fight.

[Boxscribe]

With regard to the first Morrow fight, an old-time from the west coast told me that he over-heard a conversation that basically said "Moore is gonna make it look good for the first round".

So, maybe he did and maybe he didn't. Maybe Archie could make more money on the betting than he was getting for a pay-day. I suppose we will never know for sure. What we do know is Archie did get his revenge at a later date. As Chuck indicated, these guys fought one night and - win lose or draw - picked themselves up and after a quick dust-off were on to the next opponent and next payday.

I suppose for some people (especially in this day and age of a perfect record), it is difficult to grasp that these guys kept going no matter what whas happening in their lives and whether they felt 'up for it' or not.

With a career as long as Moore's he did well to have such a miniscule number of KO losses when compared to the number of wins he notched up via the same route.

Hey, Chuck - what have you got on Willis and Willard Hogue? Both fought Archie and Willis had great success against Moore at middleweight.

[kikibalt]

Leonard Morrow was a great puncher and a good boxer. People forget that years ago guys like Moore were facing dangerous fighters a dozen or more times a year, not like today when the top guys only fight a few times a year and can focus months of preparation on their opponent.
The guys, years ago, fought often just to survive and suport their families and at times , traveling all over probably faced many day to day problems, from marital and family where your focus might be affected differently than a Roy Jones, DeLaHoya, Maywether who make enough from a few annual bouts where they are not as accessable to being caught cold by a dangerous guy like Leonard Morrow. Or like Ezzard Charles was caught by Fitzie Fitzpatrick who was robbed of a KO over Charles in their 1st fight.

[HE Grant]

Once again I'm dead on with Peteleo here ... Moore suffered several devastating KO's in his career and prior to the run later in his career many thought he was through based on the first round blow out loss ... it is hard to really say since he fought so many times under such tough conditions that to judge a guy like him it has to be on a completely different scale than a guy that has forty fights over eight years ...

Let's just say at over forty he went a very tough nine with a murderous punching Marciano so it's safe to say he had a hell of a beard for the most part ..

[apollack]

I think that Archie Moore, like Jersey Joe Walcott, was one of those fighters who actually got better as they got older.

[Elmer Ray]

I agree with Apollack. some great reads in this thread, But I dont think Moore reached his peak yet at the time of the burley and booker defeats in the early 40s(not to take away credit for their wins). I think the late 40s-mid 1950s archie moore improved in all areas and became a much smart fighter, i would favor that version of archie over both of them. The Archie Moore who dismantled disfigured and left the extremley talented clarence henry blind in 53 i dont see either of them taking that man.

[mike casey]

Quite right, Elmer. Archie came on late in his career. He learned his craft, took his lumps and never gave up. I still look at his record in awe. By God, what a tough old bird he must have been.