Wow, the BIG ONE! ... THE TRAGEDY OF KATRINA

[Roberto Aqui]

Katrina looked to be the hurricane that the Gulf coast managed to absorb, but more and more it looks like the big one finally hit. The flooding in NO was delayed, but there is no way to stop it now though Katrina is now north of Tennessee. The levees breeched. Mississippi and Alabama essentially took direct hits and may have suffered even more damage. When you consider that 90% of NO will have suffered major flooding, maybe that gives you an idea of what has transpired. Even the dead have been washed out of their graves.

Residents have fled to locations as much as 5oo miles away. This is just terrible. If you pray, please do so. Right now there is not much to do but wait and let the authorities organize. This country will never be the same that's for sure. This area of the country is just too dangerous for permanent habitation by large masses of folks without a better plan.

[GorDoom]

My previous wife's name is, Michele Marie Bourgeois, a Cajun beauty from Houma, Louisiana. Over years past I've spent a lot of time down on the bayou & in New Orleans ...

Watching the images on the Weather Channel & CNN have completely blown me away ... New Orleans will NEVER be the same ... If it can even recover.

Another town I know well, Biloxi, Mississippi basically doesn't exist anymore.

I can't even begin to express how I feel ...

GorDoom

[BDeskins]

It's just horrifying. I feel so sorry for the victims and they should be in everyone's prayers. It's probably the worst natural disaster in US history. Sunday night I heard that the hurricane was going to hit New Orleans and the first thing that went through my mind was will the levee's hold.

I also feel a lot of anger toward all the lowlife's that are taking advantage of the situation by loitering, robbing and other sensless crap. I really hope that after New Orleans are able to get life back on track that the scumbags that were caught on video get tracked down and charged for their crimes...it's a disgrace!

[GorDoom]

Thanks to SK.
www.nytimes.com/2005/09/0...1thu1.html
Waiting for a Leader - New York Times
-------------------------------------------------------------
Waiting for a Leader

Editorial from the New York Times

George W. Bush gave one of the worst speeches of his life yesterday,
especially given the level of national distress and the need for words of
consolation and wisdom. In what seems to be a ritual in this administration,
the president appeared a day later than he was needed. He then read an
address of a quality more appropriate for an Arbor Day celebration: a long
laundry list of pounds of ice, generators and blankets delivered to the
stricken Gulf Coast. He advised the public that anybody who wanted to help
should send cash, grinned, and promised that everything would work out in
the end.

We will, of course, endure, and the city of New Orleans must come back. But
looking at the pictures on television yesterday of a place abandoned to the
forces of flood, fire and looting, it was hard not to wonder exactly how
that is going to come to pass. Right now, hundreds of thousands of American
refugees need our national concern and care. Thousands of people still need
to be rescued from imminent peril. Public health threats must be controlled
in New Orleans and throughout southern Mississippi. Drivers must be given
confidence that gasoline will be available, and profiteering must be brought
under control at a moment when television has been showing long lines at
some pumps and spot prices approaching $4 a gallon have been reported.

Sacrifices may be necessary to make sure that all these things happen in an
orderly, efficient way. But this administration has never been one to
counsel sacrifice. And nothing about the president's demeanor yesterday -
which seemed casual to the point of carelessness - suggested that he
understood the depth of the current crisis.

While our attention must now be on the Gulf Coast's most immediate needs,
the nation will soon ask why New Orleans's levees remained so inadequate.
Publications from the local newspaper to National Geographic have fulminated
about the bad state of flood protection in this beloved city, which is below
sea level. Why were developers permitted to destroy wetlands and barrier
islands that could have held back the hurricane's surge? Why was Congress,
before it wandered off to vacation, engaged in slashing the budget for
correcting some of the gaping holes in the area's flood protection?

It would be some comfort to think that, as Mr. Bush cheerily announced,
America "will be a stronger place" for enduring this crisis. Complacency
will no longer suffice, especially if experts are right in warning that
global warming may increase the intensity of future hurricanes. But since
this administration won't acknowledge that global warming exists, the
chances of leadership seem minimal.

[kikibalt]

Well that W. Bush for you

Frank B.

[PeteLeo]

Yeah, the levees were in superior -- no, make that perfect -- shape while Slick Willie was in office and only deteriorated when Bush slipped into Washington.

Using a crisis like this to score political points disgusts me. But what else can you expect from the Liberal press? PeteLeo.

[kikibalt]

Pete
What do we expect to get from the so-call liberal press ? the truth i hope because we sure as hell don't get it from the COWBOY

Frank B.

[Chuck1052]

It looks like alot of people could not get out of
New Orleans when there were warnings about
Hurricane Katrina coming their way. As a result,
alot of people were stuck in the city when flooding
took place. As a result, the amount of suffering
and chaos in New Orleans is tremendous. Kudos
to the many people who are stepping up to the
plate, notably in Houston where the Astrodome
is being opened for the the refugees.

In regards to doubts about New Orleans being
rebuilt, there shouldn't be any. In the United
States, we have a history of rebuilding cities
no matter how many damage took place.
The prime example is San Francisco which
sustained a big earthquake and a huge fire
in 1906.

- Chuck Johnston

[Roberto Aqui]

The death toll from the Tsunami is approaching 250,000. The scale of these separate events is so great that it's impossible to know what Katrina's death toll will be, but surely it will be measured in the thousands though considerably less than the tsunami. The economic hit is much larger since buildings and infrastructure can't flee like most of the people can and these areas are heavily developed.

In Gulfport they showed 17' pilings of luxury mansions that were washed away. These were built to be modern day fortresses against hurricanes. The storm surge must of been at least 30'+ to wipe out such elevated, reinforced structures.

If NO is to ever be resettled to what it was, it will have to be with massive improvements which will cost so much that they would have to be federally subsidized. What are these folks going to do if they get another direct hit this year, next?

Thing is, the Feds are broke, busted. We've burned up most of our military assets up in Iraq and this is going to disrupt the US and world economy for years. 6 bucks a gallon, baby, coming to your community soon, and just watch your heating and cooling bills bust out through your roof. The credit card folks no doubt have already designed modern day debter prisons for us, to be outsourced of course to the Chinese who do these types of things so much more efficiently.

Maybe I'm overexagerrating, but maybe not. The scale of this thing breaks any reliable forecast model.

[Chuck1052]

During the late 1970s and early 1980s, I thought
that the United States was past its peak while
Japan was doing so well. But Japan went downhill
while the U.S. seemed to be going great guns
again. In other words, don't write the U.S.
off at this time.

I can't remember a situation when there was
so much difficulty aiding victims of a natural
disaster in the United States. Of course,
so much of New Orleans is under water,
which means that mobility in the strickened
city is very restricted in an era when we're
so dependent on motor vehicles.

- Chuck Johnston

[PeteLeo]

I stand corrected: the no politics, no religion embargo on this site doesn't include Bush bashings, it seems. I'll remember that in the future.

Most discouraging news to come out of the tragedy: civilians using their own boats are showing up to try to rescue people from their roofs, yet some of the moronic looters are shooting at the would-be rescuers so that they (the looters) can continue to rob ATMs without such humanitarian interruptions.

We have to keep telling ourselves that these bastards represent only a tiny minority of the people who remain trapped down there, but it's an awful glimpse into the soul, isn't it? PeteLeo.

[GorDoom]

, but it's an awful glimpse into the soul, isn't it? PeteLeo

You're right on the money there, Pete.

As to Bush, it's time to call a spade a spade. I didn't like Clinton much either... & it's not just what you call the "Liberal Media". Surf the net to some conservative web sites & there are a lot of them that aren't too happy with the way he's handling this situation either.

Any president when he screws up deserves to be held accountable whether it's Clinton or Bush. & just because someone criticises the president it's not automatically "Bush Bashing". When you screw up-no matter WHO you are or what your political leanings are, your feet should be put to the fire.

This isn't a political situation it's a human one & a little compassion & humanity from our president wouldn't be a bad thing.

GorDoom

[kikibalt]

Well said GorDoom

Frank B.

[PeteLeo]

So, from now on, politics is fair game here? Or only when it's anti-Bush? PeteLeo.

[bomma]

Can I chime in here, it should be noted that both the Governor and the Mayor of New Orleans are Democrats and we can all agree that there has been a failure of leadership on their part as well, I can't understand why it has been 4 days and the National Guard is not in there as well as why they haven't dropped food off. My belief is that this is what you get when you allow big money to infiltrate your political system. Our government is essentially corrupt and controlled by special interest on both sides. It no longer works for us, the failures of 911, the terrible intelligence from Iraq, lack of troops and poor planning in Iraq, and now this has convinced me that we are really in trouble. I mean we have supposedly spent all this money on disaster recovery plans in case of a terrorist attacks, and look how poorly this recovery is going; just image if terrorist should explode a nuclear bomb in D.C. I think we may not recover. Also look at how we still have not started to make a transition away from Fossil Fuels that feed terrorist organizations, the failure to secure the boarders, continual gang violence in the inner-city of America, the government is corrupted and rotting away from the inside and if we don't do something the USA will end up like Rome. I hope I am wrong but I don’t think so.

[PeteLeo]

Anne Coulter in '08!
That's my new motto, anyhow. PeteLeo.

[GorDoom]

Pete:

This is a crisis of humanity NOT a political issue & your whole focus seems to be that some folks are criticising the president & to you that's the BIG issue ... Wake up & smell the stench of death from New Orleans, man!

It's about people's lives & people dead - not about whether liberals & conservatives are trying to hold the president accountable.

Get over it ... that's not what this is about. & while what Bomma wrote certainly holds some truths, now is not the time for the blame game - It's time for us Americans to figure out a way to help out some fellow Americans who are in dire straits ...

GorDoom

[PeteLeo]

Well, I gave twenty bucks at the Google site. It ain't much, but it's about all of the slack I have until next Tuesday.

It's not a blame game? Maybe the smug elitist who wrote the N.Y. Times piece should be clued in to that? Some people (from all parts of the political spectrum) make everything a blame game. (Oh yeah, tonight's "Primetime" on ABC didn't get that memo, either, using words like "disgraceful" numerous times . . . though never in connection with the Democratic power structure in LA . . . hmmmm.)
PeteLeo.

[GorDoom]

Ah, Jeez, Pete ... As I wrote you once you are one of my favorite posters on the board ... But you're really over the top here. I watched O'Reilly & some other shows on Fox tonight - not my favorite network but I like to hear ALL views - & even Fox was critical about the slow response ...

But again, you're obsessing about minutea & not looking at the BIG PICTURE ... **** the Dems & the Re-Pugs -this about HUMANITY, not politics.

GorDoom

[PeteLeo]

Then maybe the Times "editorial" was a little out of place, too? What purpose did its inclusion serve? Wonder if the writer has donated his twenty bucks, yet? PeteLeo.

[GorDoom]

I guess in the future I should only post articles that meet with your political approval ...

Again, this is about humaqn crisis, not political bulll shit. There will be plenty of time down the road for that crap. NOW is the time to help, not parse over political nit picking ...

GorDoom

[Dhalgren]

I've seen this behaviour before from Republicans on blogs and I don't understand it one bit. After the tsunami in Asia I was reading The Guardian newsblog, and all the right wingers could talk about was this one article that suggested global warming might be responsible. They somehow linked this to an attack on President Bush and then started ranting about everything from how Europeans are all communists to how the Kyoto protocol is a conspiracy against American businesses. This is a human tragedy for god's sake, not a political point-scoring exercise. Even the liberal and conservative blogs are coming together in a fundraising effort. If there are people to be held accountable, regardless of which side of the political spectrum they are on, then they should be. If people are dying when they could and should have been spared, then questions need to be asked. That's not a "liberal bias", that's just a desire for truth.

[Roberto Aqui]

Well, Tip Oneil famously said all politics is local. Where to place the blame along the chain of command?

Let's start at the base, the people. Some chose or were forced to ride out the hurricane by choice or finances. OK, how many of these folks stocked in a supply of water and foodstuffs? Economics is no excuse. There was plenty of forewarning and these folks could afford their homes and lives.

Moreover, who can excuse the dangerous lawlessness that has followed? Surely this is a small minority of the refugees, and likely they are the criminal class with records. I'm not talking about foraging foodstuffs and water from damaged homes and businesses for survivial, but the out and out looting of hard goods and violence. These folks should never see the light of day again.

City authorities: They knew that many would stay, what did they do to provide containers for water in advance? Why didn't they provide camps on city owned higher ground to give more choices? Why have they allowed so many folks to live several feet below sea level in a huricane zone for so long? This is an issue that goes back decades.

State and Feds: This is not new news. This was an expected disaster that supposedly was planned for. Why did not they truck down a convoy to haul away those who could not afford to flee to a refugee camp. This was known to be the worst possible hurricane after all, and again, why have they allowed so many folks to live below sea level. Why were not the state and national guards dispatched immediately following the hurricane. Reports of the levees breeching surfaced in the middle of the hurricane. They knew what would follow and knew that thousands would be stranded.

Moreover, why have they allowed the destruction of the barrier islands because of excessive and poorly engineer development? This goes back at least 4 decades and set up NO for a terrible catastrophe.

Bush: Well, Bush is rapidly becoming the modern four letter profanity of choice. Glad he enjoyed his 6 week vacation or whatever it was. He did show some grit and backbone in the aftermath of 9/11, but he pissed it all away just like spoiled rich kids often do. Looks like he "misunderestimated" Katrina, eh? After he's done with this country the Dems will never have to mention the Hoover era again.

[DscribeDC]

Red state-Blue state aside, you can't go gallivanting off and committing billions of dollars in US spending on foreign crusades and still expect to have money in the kitty for (forgive me for this) a rainy day. When you overextend and plunge the country into debt, there will come a day when the piper must be paid.

I haven't been following the news closely enough to monitor the sufficiency of the federal response. But if W's approval rating was 38 before Katrina, what is it going to be once cannibalism breaks out in the streets of New Orleans?

Sorry Pete, but old Dub is going to take a big time pounding this time.

[BDeskins]

Bush has showed the world again that he is without a doubt, one of the greatest choke artists in history. Bush and the biggest percent of his administration have been a disgrace to the United States and the pathetic way that they have handled this terrible situation along the Gulf Coast is just further evidence of just how incompetent Bush and his staff are.

It's funny, just as the mayor of New Orleans stated during one of his many pleas to the government, Bush did not need any letters, or requests for help from Iraq, no he just went on in. Bush did not need any kind of writings, or votes to put the Captain Kangaroo looking fellow into a high office, no Bush just waited until congress went into recess and then gave the guy the position against much criticism, but the main issue about that statement is that Bush did not need to hear from anyone, he went ahead and used his position as president to do what he wanted regardless of what the majority of congress wanted. Now to try an cover up their most recent failure, the administration is trying to say that the state of Louisiana did not request the extra help and other bullshit excuses that the republicans in office have become oh so notorious for...excuses. Hell, anyone watching since Monday knows that higher powers than just state were much needed, but I guess that is just the liberal media stance, construing things to make Bush and his administration look bad, and I'm sure all of the first hand accounts coming from the people that are in the convention center, and that are in other parishes are just a ploy for the "liberal" media to make Bush look bad...yeah right!

People don't have to do anything to make Bush look bad, he does it all by himself and then makes excuses never excepting any kind of blame. Bush and his administration are approaching the dubious distinction of being not only the most dangerous cabinet in history, but also the cabinet that will eventually send the US into another great depression, but then again, Bush and his constituency of oil barons won't have anything to worry about, it'll be the middle and lower class people that suffer, just like it has always been throughout history. Of course gas prices are really of little concern at the moment, in the coming months it will be a major issue because the poor people will not be able to afford gas to get them to work. The Bush administration have been wanting to up the gas prices substantially anyway and unfortunately the disaster along the Gulf Coast has again given Bush a scapegoat to use for his agenda, just like he used terrorism as a scapegoat to enter into Iraq!

Other than being the greatest choke artist, Bush is without a doubt, the worst president that this country has had! He bends the truth a hell of lot more than "slick Willie" ever did, but then again most of Clintons lies pertained to his personal life, which wasn't anyone's business, but the republicans made it everyone's business. In the end, if there really was any kind of justice in the world, Bush and his crew should be held accountable for ruining America, which is exactly what they have done!

I’m not saying all republicans fit this category because they all don’t…many just don’t know any better…it’s the ones that do know better that should be ashamed to support such an evil and crooked man like Bush. Those that are ridiculously trying to defend Bush and his complete lack of action and attention in taking control of the current situation along the Gulf Coast, well it’s beyond what words can describe! God help the people suffering because the national government certainly hasn’t! It’s just like the people that are in New Orleans suffering right now continuously say, the Bush administration has failed the American people yet again…maybe he should do what he has become accustomed to and go back to the ranch for yet another month of thinking, after all what’s another month when you have already spent over one entire year vacationing during the what, five years in office! In the words of the poor people in New Orleans…it’s an absolute disgrace!

[walsh b]

I have been watching events unfold on the news here in Ireland. I have never seen such a disaster zone in the US. It's like something out of a hollywood script, except this is for real....really sad. I think the single most important thing needed at this time is the restoring of law and order. Anarchy cannot be allowed to prevail, no matter what the circumstances. It's terrible to hear that scum looters are robbing people and walking the streets with guns terrorising people. This has to stop and the Government should take what ever action necessary to bring a stop to this. I've no problem what so ever with a man or woman taking food to eat for themselves and their children, but the looting of guns and ammo by some of these bandits and the shooting at rescue personnel is disgraceful....firm action needs to be taken.

[kikibalt]

Peteleo

Anne Coulter is a fucking nut

Frank B.

[PeteLeo]

Oh, yeah, I make one comment about a snide N.Y. Times columnist trying to make political hay over a national sorrow, and I'm the one injecting politics into the topic, is that it? I invite you to read every post between my first and this one and tell me who's bashing, breast-beating, grandstanding, and caterwauling. It wasn't a "Bushie" who introduced the political aspect to the thread, and it's not "conservative blogs" who are filling the screen with line after line of hate-filled, ugly recriminations without the odd word directed to the suffering people down here. Maybe some of us should look in the mirror while we're jumping on the "hate Bush/Republicans/conservatives/anyone with the temerity to think a degree differently than we do" pile.
By the way, 10.5 billion in relief is on the way. Maybe that'll stave off the cannibalism for a day or two.
My first comment was that I was disgusted by the Times political hitman, and I must say that the subsequent exchanges have hardly altered that feeling. If that sounds harsh, it is what it is. I don't lie. Peteleo.

[GorDoom]

In a short speech this morning it was apparent that the president has gotten the message. I'm paraphrasing here but he said that this disaster was going to take a lot of hard work. He thanked all the people working on the recovery but said the results were totally insufficient.

The sturm & drang of the uproar about the lack of response has definitely affected him. I'm going to put aside my innate cynicism & give the goverment a (delayed) chance to step up to the plate.

What I think is important now is not political finger pointing but getting the job done. We're all Americans & being a Dem or a Re-Pug is not the issue here & now

There will be plenty of time down the road to sort out who did or didn't do what they were supposed to do.

GorDoom

[Chuck1052]

I don't want to get into the politics on the CBZ,
especially at a time when a debacle is taking place
in New Orleans. For one thing, there appears
to be incrediable incompetence among the
people in charge in New Orleans and Louisiana
regardless of party affiliation.

- Chuck Johnston