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Thread: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

  1. #91
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I just watched it .

    Hopkins won and quite easily . He was busier and faster , his footwork was great.

    The referee was not up to par , taking point(s) away without cause .

  2. #92
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    How about we all swallow our bile and give Hopkins his due ... he is still a great fighter ....

    I thought he got robbed in the first Taylor fight and the second could have gone either way.

    I felt he deserved the Calzeghe fight ...

    He diced up Tarver and Wright and now this .... he is boring and hard to like but he is a super tough, crafty throwback ....

    Man oh man ...

  3. #93
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Still sounds like it was a stinker overall. I hope they lost money on the ppv numbers.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Thank God I did not pay for this fight from the way it sounds. It sounds so boring it is a shame.

  5. #95
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    @#$!&%**&&&$#@..........

    greg

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    As I've said many times before I was never sold on Pavlik. I was hoping he would win just to see Galzaghe kick his ass. Maybe next time.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Quote Originally Posted by HE Grant
    How about we all swallow our bile and give Hopkins his due ... he is still a great fighter ....

    I thought he got robbed in the first Taylor fight and the second could have gone either way.

    I felt he deserved the Calzeghe fight ...

    He diced up Tarver and Wright and now this .... he is boring and hard to like but he is a super tough, crafty throwback ....

    Man oh man ...


    Very well put, my feelings exactly. It was fairly boring, and almost all of Hopkins' fight are, but man, can that guy fight. Incredibly affective.

  8. #98
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    fight went pretty much as I called it in the other theard only i thought BHOP would stop Pavlik. Another masterful performance by the Executioner he was the teacher and Pavlik was the student,

    WKS

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    For a Hopkins fight it was actually pretty good, most of his fights are boring . This one was not .

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    My worst nightmare comes true.
    Thanks Kelly for giving the old man more crap to run his mouth about, for christs sake.
    Kudos to BHop for proving most of us wrong.

    This makes Taylor look used pretty used up after facing BHop. I just can't buy that Kelly couldn't adjust to the weight.
    Styles make fights I guess?
    Does this give BHop a right to fight the winner of Calzaghe/Jones?
    Yuk.
    God help us all.
    Well the real winner is me because I didn't buy it.
    Other than the shock of Pavlik losing, it sounded like the typical boring BHop fight like I expected.

  11. #101
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Styles make fights. Hopkins had the perfect style to give Kelly problems, He is a masterful boxer, even though he's not always the most entertaining. He is a master of timing and distance. He was faster, had the better counters, better footwork, knew how to duck and clinch to break Kelly's rhythm.

    It was more or less a replay of the Hopkins-Trinidad fight. Quite frankly, this was the best conditioned Hopkins I've seen in a long time. Instead of dicking around for the first half of the fight, he sought to impose himself and win rounds right from the beginning. He took the second half off more so, clinching a lot, but still throwing the occasional quick counter or flurry. He still closed the show with a big 12th.

    Looks like B-Hop will always look his best against the plodders. The quicker guys like Calzaghe and Taylor and Wright have the better chance against him because he can't as easily outbox or outtime them.

    Puts things in perspective about how guys like Fitzsimmons and Moore could do well in their late years. When you've got it, and you treat your body well, keep motivated, train hard, it doesn't matter how old you are.

    Kelly should go back down to 160. He'll still make for very fun fights against fellow punchers.
    Last edited by apollack; 10-19-2008 at 12:53 AM.

  12. #102
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I would love to see Hopkins fight Roy Joke jr again. I know you should never say never,but Joke jr will never fight Hop. Book it.

  13. #103
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I have seen fighters win decisions over Bernard Hopkins

    But I have yet to see anyone truly beat him

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Damn.

  15. #105
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    That goes for Roy Jones, Taylor, Calzaghe.....all of 'em...

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I thought Kelly had an off night. But you got to hand it to Hopkins. He had one hell of a good night. Pavlik would have done better with a toe to toe slugger but Hopkins took him to school. All in all I thought it was a great fight. especially the 12th round.
    Randy

  17. #107
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Quote Originally Posted by Surf-Bat
    I have seen fighters win decisions over Bernard Hopkins

    But I have yet to see anyone truly beat him
    That makes two of us.

  18. #108
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    There are still lots of very interesting fights to be made at these weights, which is why I hope Mikkel Kessler gets back in the mix again. With Pavlik now humbled, Abraham and Calzaghe stand as the only undefeated champions at these weights.

    Styles make fights and I thought Hopkins would win, but this result makes Taylor's wins over Hopkins more significant, but it also makes them more questionable. I thought Jermain won both, barely.

    Now, who can really hurt Hopkins and beat him convincingly? Probably no one, but things are definitely more interesting now. Had Pavlik won, everyone would be saying how unbeatable he is.

    Very good win for Bernard, time for Pavlik to go back to the drawing board.

  19. #109
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    This is what I was worried about in questioning in the other thread whether Kelly could deal with BHOP. I swear, Hopkins never beats Jones in their primes if they fought another 3 times, but no one else can deal with BHOP's ring intelligence. Kelly showed against Taylor in their #1 that he was one shot away from being KOd, and that's all Bernard needed to see.

    These type of BHOP performances--as many as there have been-- STILL don't convince me of his greatness, only that the rest of the contenders/champs just aren't so good. Calzaghe showed what a top fighter can do to Hopkins. Apparently, there are few top fighters around today.

  20. #110
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I thought Pavlik would outwork him but I'm not incredibly surprised. A lot of people were overrating Pavlik and underrating Bernard, simply b/c he lost a CLOSE decision to Calzaghe (who proved tonight he's in a class by himself at 160-175).

    This also sadly proved how boxing in the upper weight classes has become so dilluted. Hopkins is a great fighter but no 44 year old should be beating a 26 year old champion in his prime, I don't care what workout regime/nutrition program he's on. The early 90s in which Hopkins came up was simply a much deeper field at 160-168 than what you have now. And the 1960s were two-times that to the early 1990s. Why I always find it funny to hear that fighters like Klitschko would beat any of the past greats. They are rising to the top in a field of mediocrity. Pavlik and Klitschko would've been fringe contenders 30 years ago, such is the state of boxing. Doesn't mean the sport can't produce very good fights (I still think Pavlik-Abraham is a scorcher and weltweight and below have loads of possible quality matchups and some excellent fighters) but one has to admit the great sport of boxing in the storied divisions of Middleweight, Light HW, and Heavyweight are simply pale reflections of what used to be.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    If you let Hopkins set the tempo of a fight, you are toast, no matter how old he is. Both Tarver and Pavlik walked Hopkins down, but at a deliberate pace, thus giving Hopkins plenty of opportunities to let his defensive prowess and counterpunching take over. Hopkins does not do well when the opponent puts pressure (even disorganized pressure like Taylor did in spots) AND sets a busy pace (output-wise). When punches in bunches are coming at him, Hopkins has to put all of his energy on defense, and thus does not get much done offensively. Kudos to the old man for taking what was dealt to him and running away with it, but Pavlik got this one all wrong, IMO.

  22. #112
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    as a Hopkins 'critic', I have to give credit to an excellent display of ring craft & collected experience - BHop won outright and with applaudable savey and technic... WHERE was Pavlik???

    you know apart from BHop's 'usual' spoiling tactics, the next disappointing thing for a fight fan to endure is fighters who don't show up or give too much respect

    Kessler/Calzaghe
    Hopkins/Calzaghe
    Woods/Tarver

    and now Pavlik. Sure it could be argued that the non-participant was neutralized, and in this fight maybe so, but I think Pavlik gave way too much respect and ground to BHop. I wonder how he'll live with himself after he watches the Tape!

    But I'll tell you after that display, assuming Hopkins can repeat it or better it, I fully support a Calzaghe/ Hopkins return, even if Jones dummies him!

    Well done Bernard Hopkins,from one of your hardest critics!!!

  23. #113
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I guess Calzaghe's performance against Hopkins doesn't look so bad in retrospect. Styles make fights-What you say about Hopkins you can say about Hagler- people won decisions against them but no one really beat them. Hagler did fight better competition.

  24. #114
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I am looking forward to seeing it. Just want to say one thing about 170lbs being a factor for a man who is 6'2" tall. No way! If you are that height and punch hard at the weight making limit at 160, rehydrate to 166 or so by fight time with food and drink, making 169 is not going to take away your power.

    Believing you are fighting a boxing "Legend" in your head will rob your destructive magic from you though.

    You do not walk down BHop and then once within striking distance fail to hurt or saturate him with speed and dynamite.

    It sounds like a bit of added, supplemental and specialized teaching outside the Lil ole gym in Ohio might have been in order for this one.
    I like his trainer, I like his relationship with him too and I like Kelly's niche in Youngstown.

    That being said, when you hunt deer all the time with a 30-30 and then go to Alaska for Brown Bear, you bring a 340 or 378 Weatherby Magnum.

    BHop's height, craft, experience, mind set and conditioning require different
    and deadly anesthesia, applied quickly and non stop. Otherwise why fight this kind of fighter unprepared or I should say preparing the same way for deer hunting.

  25. #115
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Once again we're reminded: That's Why They Fight....

  26. #116
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Weight had nothing to do with the outcome of this fight, IMO. Hopkins cannot make 160 any more, but if he had, he would have whipped Pavlik the same way. This was all about ring generalship and strategy.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    "Regardless how a Hopkins' win is viewed it would be a blow to the popularity of the sport. Pavlik is clearly a draw for the younger, white male demographic and a loss to Hopkins wouldn't hold the 'historical accomplishment' angle appreciated here.

    Boxing not only moved to Vegas, it adopted the star system. Not too many marketing debacles, or second acts, are tolerated in that game."

    "He (Pavlik) has since been featured in newspapers, magazines and on television stations around the country. Some have looked to him to be a crucial figure in boxing in the United States. He holds the middleweight titles of two of boxing’s major sanctioning organizations.

    After Saturday night’s fight, those titles were about all Pavlik had to cling to."

    NYTimes coverage of the fight.

  28. #118
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Frank
    This is what I was worried about in questioning in the other thread whether Kelly could deal with BHOP. I swear, Hopkins never beats Jones in their primes if they fought another 3 times, but no one else can deal with BHOP's ring intelligence. Kelly showed against Taylor in their #1 that he was one shot away from being KOd, and that's all Bernard needed to see.

    These type of BHOP performances--as many as there have been-- STILL don't convince me of his greatness, only that the rest of the contenders/champs just aren't so good. Calzaghe showed what a top fighter can do to Hopkins. Apparently, there are few top fighters around today.
    If you're still not convinced Hopkins is a great fighter, than you won't be. History will regard him as one regardless and the perception will grow rather than shrink over time. That was an incredible performance from a 43-year old whose offense has been spotty for most of the last four years. press row, from oldest to youngest, was in awe last night of Hopkins.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I did not pay to see the fight, but I am also looking forward to seeing the replay next weekend. In the past I have said that Hopkins was a border line great......now he is elevated to an all time great fighter. Hopkins like Jack Johnson may not have had the best crowd pleasing style, but you have to give him credit where credit due. I know that it was@ 170 lbs and no belts were on the line, but for a 43 fighter to beat a young hot champion is impressive. I heard that Hopkins may have won 11 of 12 rounds and that he had Pavlik's nose bleeding from round 4 on. It seems like it is 1993 all over again. Roy Jones will most likely beat Calzache and set up the rematch for the 168 and 175 lbs belts against Hopkins. Boxing seems to go in cycles, much like our economy. The only real question is are we ready for the Jones vs. Hopkins II? I know that Jones has not beaten Calzache yet, but it seems that fate is aligning these 2 up again.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    With Hopkins fighting consecutive southpaws for the last couple of years, I think people read too much into his lack of activity in fights. It's much easier to be busy against an orthodox boxer than against a southpaw because you don't have to set up your attacks as elaborately.

    Also, Tarver and now Pavlik claimed to have been flat on the night... but to me that's because Hopkins slashes your tires early. Pavlik didn't look flat in the first round, he looked just fine.

    The only time I ever got worried for B-Hop was when he starting bouncing on his toes in one of the later rounds. He gave too much ground to Pavlik, who really managed to come on and control the pace until the ref interfered with the fight. Hopkins then wisely starting slowing Pavlik's momentum again and never let him back in again. If you look for that round you'll really see how Hopkins took the fight from Kelly throughout. You stop an avalanche from occurring only if it doesn't get moving in the first place. Calzaghe was more like a tornado who wouldn't go back in the bag.

    Also, Pavlik headhunted way too much. He should've been cutting Hopkins off with bodyshots. He just followed him around like an obedient lamb to the slaughter. In my opinion Loew was too concerned with the double jab, instead of suggesting something else. If your guy doesn't respond to a suggested tactic in a few of rounds, he's not going to.

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