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Thread: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

  1. #121
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I did not see the fight yet, but what you wrote is very well written.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Thank you Mr. Lipton.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I dont think the fight was boring, I thought it was a tremendous performance by a guy who turned back the clock against all odds. It was amazing as far as Im concerned and I was glad to be able to see it live. Hopkins shut Pavlik down at every aspect of the game. I though Hopkins looked old and weak against Calzaghe. I had that fight a 1 point win for Cal but it was not a good fight for either guy, against Pavlik Hopkin's looked better than anytime Ive seen him since Trinidad, EIGHT years ago. Simply incredible. What a wonderful thing to watch.

    P.S. The undercard was probably the worst Ive ever seen and if Billy Dib ever makes it to television again I wont watch.

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    Didn't see this

    But aw shucks just the same:

    "Hopkins has been dull in recent years

    But it baffles me that it keeps being suggested that this has ALWAYS been the case.

    Well, we live in a "what have you done for me lately" type of world.

    I do think this will be a nice barometer for Pavlik though.

    As dangerous as this could prove to be for Bernard, I think the same is true for Kelly. Can he afford to look bad agianst an aged, past his prime great in Hopkins while on such a hot streak?

    I think it's risky both ways.

    During the NBA playoffs this year, Charles Barkley said in the TNT studios about the San Antoinio Spurs: "These Damn Cockroaches just won't go away!" I think when Hopkins Pavlik is done, many here might be saying the same thing about Bernard.

    If they haven't already.

    Hawk"

    Sidenote: I get enough of these so wrong and look out to lunch, that when I do get it right, I reserve the right to do a little dance.

    Hawk

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    The Legend Grows: Ringside Post-Fight Report Card

    By Cliff Rold

    How hyped was the packed house for Pavlik-Hopkins?

    So hyped that instead of booing they mostly just ignored what may have been the worst fight ever shown on an HBO Pay-Per-View, Billy Dib-Steven Luevano. Luevano, usually an entertaining fighter, was in a worst case scenario with nothing to do about it but wait for it all to end. Billy Dib just wasn’t going to engage. There were mixed boos throughout, and cynical applause at the end in a backhanded thank-you for it finally ending.

    Many fans complain about mediocre undercards they’ve been asked to purchase; the fight was worse than anything most had pondered in previous complaints. The other featured undercard bout between Marco Antonio Rubio and Enrique Ornelas was solid stuff, but sitting through twelve rounds of Luevano-Dib between it and the main event was a torturous experience.

    Yet, to the live crowd, it didn’t really matter.

    What wasn’t happening for the previous hour was immediately forgotten as Pavlik and Hopkins were shown on the screens above the ring. The crowd, made up largely of Pavlik fans with a healthy Hopkins contingent, was buzzing, and then chanting, building to a crescendo as the main event approached. It was a crowd and atmosphere every bit as electric as those once reserved solely for Atlantic City icon Arturo Gatti.

    Following a rousing, unique take on the national anthem, the lights went down and Pavlik entered the ring behind a waving American flag. As the echo built with each step towards the ring, it was clear Kelly Pavlik the star had arrived. The even louder boos for Hopkins cemented it further. It said, “Everyone in the world might not know it yet, but the hopes for a new American superstar just exploded in Boardwalk Hall.”

    The opening bell had still not sounded.

    The naked emotion of the moment swept the room in a wave before it did, finding even veterans along press row applaud in the wait for it all to get underway. The room fell to a brief hush as the two fighters met at ring center to receive instructions and then the roar built again.

    Then, finally, the bell…

    And the arrival of Pavlik walked head on into one of the greatest fighters of all time looking every bit of it, making fools of everyone who picked against him, this scribe included; more than fools, making a mockery of the notion. For literally minutes after the bout, he stood staring down at the Boxing press who’d largely picked against him and the image of a bowed mass seemed appropriate.

    The Pavlik faithful watched the man they’d come to jeer deliver a performance that made Floyd Mayweather’s 2005 mastery of Gatti in this same building look like a close fight. Before the bell even sounded for the final round, a trickle of Pavlik fans were already hitting the exits and chants of “B-Hop” rang out as the old man went for a knockout after not losing a single round.

    He didn’t get the knockout.

    It didn’t matter.

    Let’s go to the report card.

    Read the Rest at: http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=16484

  6. #126
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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I've seen various HLs of this fight and I was honestly shocked by the fluidity and volume of Hopkins' offense contained therein, as I'm sure Pavlik was also.

    Hopkins appeared to get into a very nice rhythm, landing clean, hurtful shots in full combinations. One thing though, when Hopkins cut loose Kelly appeared to be the proverbial deer immobilised by the headlights. Of what I saw, when Hopkins threw, Kelly did little more than cover up and Hopkins happily teed off. Hopkins' hands were that much faster (amazingly fast for 43 yo and fast in absolute terms anyway) and his shots were dead accurate and well leveraged.

    Maybe this was simply a stylistic advantage for Hopkins or, perhaps maybe, Hopkins, rather than play it boringly safe and possibly lose a tight one, decided to throw down for better or worse and actually ended up with a whole lot more than "better".

    Excellent win but it does seem that Pavlik was somewhat overrated or, at least, somewhat understated for this particular fight against a guy who appeared to fight well against type relative to his more recent fights.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    It was a master performance in my opinion. I thought Hopkins was to old to tame the young lion, but is was a carbon copy of the Trinidad fight except from memory, Hopkins was even busier.

    He showed Pavlik more angles than a carpenter in a crooked house. Everytime Pavlik loaded up with the right, Hopkins beat him to the punch, or rolled to his won right deflecting it.

    The only way Pavlik could have won the fight was to brutalise the body with left and right hooks and he would have taken some serious shots in the process.

    Hopkins moved beautifully, threw every punch in the book and was very crisp with his shots. This was a good fight to watch with Pavlik doing his best, but not having an answer to Hopkins.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Rafael's breakdown is the best I've read so far. If you don't pressure the old man and instead allow him to dictate the pace, he will beat you.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Wow wow and wow again. I really did think Pavlik would be too young & strong and bring the curtain down, but Hopkins really is the master.

    I'm British and i thought Hopkins quality + knock down beat Calzaghes 'qauntity thrown', i also thought he at least one won of the Taylor fighters.

    This guys just a freak of nature, what else is there we can say?

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I finally caught the fight. I dont think it is being replayed next week & probably for good reason since HBOs ace in the hole was exposed. To a boxing fan it was watchable but that fight isn't making many casual fans. I can't stand BHop but I can't help but respect his ass, especially with how he closed the fight. In retrospect it makes a hell of a lot of sense now & I feel stupid for thinking Pavlik would win a close fight. BHop's corpse will still have more boxing skill in it than Pavlik in his prime.

    Steward gambled & sent Taylor into his first fight with Pavlik to get into a gunfight. When Taylor couldn't keep Pavlik down & gassed out, the rest was history. Taylor fought as good fight in the rematch but was too tentative and it cost him. Had Taylor just boxed him the first time, I doubt any of the rest would have happened. Even though Steward was well on his way to ruining Taylor, he should have won that first fight without too much conflict had he just boxed.

    This loss had nothing to do with KP's weight. KP was never a quick fighter. Speed just kills in the hands of the right guy. It hurt BHop with Taylor & Calzaghe, it hurt Tarver with BHop & now Pavlik with BHop. Pavlik also only fights in straight lines (like Tito but with worse footwork) & BHop masters in mixing up his attack. KP could barely get off a jab he felt good about all night, forget about a right hand to follow. Hopkins kept him guessing all night and he didn't have the confidence to stay busy in the face of that speed & movement.

    This was Hopkins best performance IMO, right up there with his dismantling of Tito. He had a dangerous although perfect opponent in front of him & he completely outclassed him in every sense of the word as if he was the younger guy.

    Regardless of what happens with Calzaghe/Jones, Hopkins/Jones should happen already & they should both call it a career after that. That fight may even sell a little bit now since Hopkins didn't stink it up all that much against KP.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    I think the Tarver fight was a bigger technical challenge for Hopkins than this fight. In that fight Hopkins was coming up in weight to fight a big southpaw with extensive experience as a pro and amateur. Tarver is a lot more savvy than Pavlik likely ever will be and had a very competent man in his corner. The fact Pavlik had the inexperienced Loew cornering him and made all the errors of youth played right into Hopkins' hands. I'd like to say that I'm not bashing Loew as a trainer - he just didn't react right when things were uphill - sort of like Jack Mosley. Doesn't mean he's a bad trainer.

    Pulling the wool over Tarver's eyes was a lot more difficult than doing the same to Pavlik. As a statement, his grand victory over youth, is of course a bigger moment.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Haha, I just heard the replay is on next Saturday at midnight. That just screams HBO's opinion of the outcome.

    I agree with ezzthetic in regards to the Tarver fight, especially the part about the corner. The reason I put this on that level or maybe higher is because of Pavliks age, style & power not to mention because of how Hopkins looked against Calzaghe. He fought more to spoil than win against Calzaghe after the first few rounds.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    HBO showiong this at midnight is a disrespect to a great boxer. Cant wait to watch the replay and watch BHOP get up in Pavliks grille and take out the trash once again,

    WKS


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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Quote Originally Posted by Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
    HBO showiong this at midnight is a disrespect to a great boxer. Cant wait to watch the replay and watch BHOP get up in Pavliks grille and take out the trash once again,

    WKS

    Okay WKS you were right on the money in picking BHOP. The only thing that was different is that you thought that Hopkins would stop him. I actually was not that surprised either by the result.....I just didn't realize how apparently dominant Hopkins was. Hopkins did everything but knock down Pavlik and stop him.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Now the excuses have started. they are saying pavlik had bronchitis and an injured elbow and thats why he didnt win...

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    Geez

    With that staredown picture above Body, one would have thought that Hopkins would have caught Bronchitis as well.

    Hawk

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    Saw the fight last night

    Bernard looked very very good.

    Pavlik looked very very ordinary.

    Let's hope the hyperpole for Kelly is stemmed for a while.

    He may be exciting to watch and fun to root for, but this was certainly a reality check for his bursting reputation, that's for sure.

    Hawk

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Crold hit it right on the head, I saw the fight last night for the first time.

    It truly was a terrible fight. Kudos to BHOP all the way for his conditioning and skill. Kelly who I truly admire had nothing, absolutely nothing.

    I happen to like Benji Estavez very much as a person and a referee. I would have to say he made a bad mistake in deducting those points in that manner though.

    Kelly had no answer for anything in there and if he had worked on hand speed and vicious non stop delivery, and stop standing straight up all the time walking him down, it would be a different ballgame.

    Rude awakening to the need for specialized trainers to add to the mix even when you are on top.

    respectfully,

    Ron

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Quote Originally Posted by bodyblow
    Now the excuses have started. they are saying pavlik had bronchitis and an injured elbow and thats why he didnt win...
    I was told about the injured elbow the day before the fight. Of course, that doesn't mean it was really injured, but a friend told me that previous Friday that Pavlik's trainer had told him about the bad elbow, and that hopefully it wouldn't affect Kelly's performance.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Kelly would never beat Hopkins on Hopkins worst day. I just saw the fight last night and Pavlik was exposed like Arguello was in handling boxers with good hand and foot speed. I thought Hopkins would have slowed a bit in the second half of the fight and Pavlik would put on his charge from that point on. But it was not to be because Hopkins was in fantastic shape (As always) and never slowed one bit. I loved the way Hopkins punched in between and from angles that left pavlik clueless. It was a fantastic showing for Hopkins.
    Last edited by evander; 10-26-2008 at 10:01 PM.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Arguello was never particularly versatile and certainly didn't like the movers, but he was never thoroughly exposed technically like this.I actually think his main problem was he didn't adapt his style or pace to ten round fights...he fought like he had the extra five rounds to play with.

    Pavlik is just totally unskilled in certain areas.He has the mobility of a first world war tank, everything done in straight lines before re-setting.He doesn't know how to integrate his powershots with his footwork, especially against a moving target.

    On the plus side for him, there's no one else around that can do what Hopkins did to him, at least not to that extent.He'll do solid work given fighters that stand right in front of him.Just stay away from any mobile fighters.

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    I personally don't have an issue

    with Comparing Pavlik to Arguello.

    As in: Compared to Arguello, Pavlik absolutely sucks.

    I don't even have a problem with the two names appearing in the same sentence:

    Such as: The Names Arguello and Pavilk should NEVER appear in the same Sentence.

    I like Pavlik and enjoy watching him as I think he can be entertaining.

    But the over the top praise he was getting prior to the Hopkins bout simply did not make sense. Any more sense than comparing him to Arguello (and to be used as a NEGATIVE to boot!) in this loss.

    Hawk

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    Re: I personally don't have an issue

    Stop your bitchin! Always whining about something!


    "Any more sense than comparing him to Arguello (and to be used as a NEGATIVE to boot!) in this loss."


    But that's what it reminded me of. Deal with it.




    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    with Comparing Pavlik to Arguello.

    As in: Compared to Arguello, Pavlik absolutely sucks.

    I don't even have a problem with the two names appearing in the same sentence:

    Such as: The Names Arguello and Pavilk should NEVER appear in the same Sentence.

    I like Pavlik and enjoy watching him as I think he can be entertaining.

    But the over the top praise he was getting prior to the Hopkins bout simply did not make sense. Any more sense than comparing him to Arguello (and to be used as a NEGATIVE to boot!) in this loss.

    Hawk
    Last edited by evander; 10-27-2008 at 09:49 PM.

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    Bitching?

    About an absurd comparison?

    Acutually I was having the same chuckle that just about everyone else was having when they read that.

    I just did it with type written words vs. a contemptable internal chuckle.

    Hey feel free to have fun at my expense the next time I equate Greg Haugen's second bout with Vinnie Pazienza to Gene Tunney turning the tables on Harry Greb in THEIR rematch.

    Hawk
    Last edited by hawk5ins; 10-28-2008 at 12:38 PM.

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    Re: Bitching?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    About an absurd comparison?

    Acutually I was having the same chuckle that just about everyone else was having when they read that.

    I just did it with type written words vs. a contemptable internal chuckle.

    Hey feel free to have fun at my expense the next time I equate Greg Haugen's second bout with Vinnie Pazienza to Gene Tunney turning the tables on Harry Greb in THEIR rematch.

    Hawk
    Man! you always blow things out of proportion

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    Comparing

    Pavlik to Arguello is not "out of proportion"?

    Hawk

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    Re: Comparing

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    Pavlik to Arguello is not "out of proportion"?

    Hawk

    Grow up and deal with it.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    PPV TANKS & BLAMES ECONOMY (yeah right)

    Forty-three-year-old Bernard Hopkins' domination of Kelly Pavlik in their 170-pound bout Oct. 18 was one of the most stunning results in recent boxing history. Not all that many people saw it, however, because the pay-per-view tanked.

    Good fight, bad ratings: Bernard Hopkins' clash with Kelly Pavlik bombed in pay-per-view sales.

    "The pay-per-view numbers sucked. It did only about 190,000. It's very disappointing," Top Rank promoter Bob Arum, who handles Pavlik, told ESPN.com.

    The total was well below pre-fight expectations.

    "I think it was mostly the economy," Arum said. "I think when people have a choice in hard economic times and they can be entertained for free with football games and so forth, they'll opt to watch the football game rather than pay the money to watch the fight."

    CEO Richard Schaefer of Golden Boy, which promotes Hopkins, added, "The pay-per-view was definitely disappointing. Most people who watch pay-per-view do it by having parties, but in these economic times, who the heck feels like partying? It was a big disappointment. There's no question the economy had an impact."

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Quote Originally Posted by diggity
    PPV TANKS & BLAMES ECONOMY (yeah right)

    Forty-three-year-old Bernard Hopkins' domination of Kelly Pavlik in their 170-pound bout Oct. 18 was one of the most stunning results in recent boxing history. Not all that many people saw it, however, because the pay-per-view tanked.

    Good fight, bad ratings: Bernard Hopkins' clash with Kelly Pavlik bombed in pay-per-view sales.

    "The pay-per-view numbers sucked. It did only about 190,000. It's very disappointing," Top Rank promoter Bob Arum, who handles Pavlik, told ESPN.com.

    The total was well below pre-fight expectations.

    "I think it was mostly the economy," Arum said. "I think when people have a choice in hard economic times and they can be entertained for free with football games and so forth, they'll opt to watch the football game rather than pay the money to watch the fight."

    CEO Richard Schaefer of Golden Boy, which promotes Hopkins, added, "The pay-per-view was definitely disappointing. Most people who watch pay-per-view do it by having parties, but in these economic times, who the heck feels like partying? It was a big disappointment. There's no question the economy had an impact."
    Best news I've gotten all week.

    They can blame the economy all they like. It was taking a past-best Hopkins and a newcomer and trying to convince us it was PPV-worthy.

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    Re: Pavlik-Hopkins Results & Discussion 10/18/'08

    Hopkins finally looks good and no one saw it.

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