Calzaghe-Jones Results & Discussion Nov. 8/08

[HE Grant]

Well it's set .... joke is coming off the Hopkins fight, Joe has been established as a very good but not unbeatable fighter, slightly past his best days with a chin that is good but not granite and very little power .... not a bad match up for the still well conditioned Jones whose biggest weakness is his chin ...

of course Cal should win but it is not the blow out it might be from a style basis ... still, unless Gor is treating I'm only catching the replay ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=3478973

[Surf-Bat]

Just remember folks:

You buy this bout, you're supporting it.

You support it, you allow promoters to keep dishing us up the tripe and selling it as prime rib.

WE the VIEWERS- who shell out the dough- dictate what the "superfights" are, not the promoters.

If they lose money on this they'll think twice about trying to serve up similar crap in the future.

[Michael Frank]

Well it's set .... joke is coming off the Hopkins fight, Joe has been established as a very good but not unbeatable fighter, slightly past his best days with a chin that is good but not granite and very little power .... not a bad match up for the still well conditioned Jones whose biggest weakness is his chin ...

of course Cal should win but it is not the blow out it might be from a style basis ... still, unless Gor is treating I'm only catching the replay ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=3478973

I think Jones's chin has gotten way too much discredit relative to his entire career accomplishments, but, o.k., in several recent fights it failed the test.

Only thing is, I don't think Cal is the guy to test his chin now because he isn't that hard a puncher.

I dislike that they make matches with old-timers, too, but I think Jones has a decent chance in this one. Cal should be favored, since he pulls the trigger a lot, and old Jones does anything but.

[diggity]

Calzaghe as well as BHop were slowed down by each other's speed in that fight. A bit too much respect was given to eachother for 2 guys who aren't known for being KO artists. RJJ or Calzaghe is going to have step up & show the other a bit less respect to get a convincing win, otherwise we may be in for a nasty posefest with even less action than the Calzaghe/BHop fight. Calzaghe can't wait on RJJ like he tried with BHop earlier in the fight. Old RJJ or not, he will be even less successful. Swarm & stifle RJJ and he should pretty much cruise on through him like Johnson did.

[Surf-Bat]

It's now been cancelled. I'll be sure to wear a black armband in protest/mourning.

Now can we make the REAL fight(Calzaghe-Pavlik)?

[diggity]

from fightnews.com

Jones Jr. on postponement!
"It sounds to me as though Joe has a normal and usual injury," said Roy Jones Jr. regarding the postponement of his September 20 date with Joe Calzaghe. "He had shown some concern recently about his hand not being ready. I still wanted to move forward with the September date, since HBO had already laid out the red carpet for a pay-per-view success when we took the De La Hoya-Mayweather date. But I don’t want him to be no less that his best – so if this is what it takes for that, then so be it. "Regarding the new date, Jones stated, "I have been informed by my people at Square Ring that the fight will most likely be rescheduled for November 8, 2008 on HBO Pay-Per-View at Madison Square Garden . I am glad we are close to being able to put together a new date for the fight within 24 hours of learning of Joe’s injury. I am thankful that the people at HBO and Madison Square Garden were able to open things up for us....I had originally proposed something kind of different for this fight. And that is that Joe and I would first weigh-in for the fight at 168 and fight for Joe’s Super Middleweight titles. Then we would step off the scales, drink some water and weigh-in again at more than 168 so that we could also fight for Joe’s Ring Magazine Light Heavyweight title. I only recall this happening once before, in the Leonard/Lalonde fight and I think it would really add something unique to the promotion. Joe initially expressed concern about his ability to make 168 by September 19, but now that we have another 7 weeks, I hope that he will go for it and that the WBA, WBO and the WBC will sanction it."

[mrbig1]

I know this sounds crazy but I want to see Hopkins vs Jones 2.

[jim glen]

I think Jones blows Calzaghe out here, Jones is an all round better fighter and should/could still deliver KO goods.

Re: Hopkins, I would much rather see Jones vs. Tarver than Bhop..."if we have too!"

[wpink]

I dont see why Joe "should beat" roy. Styles makes fights and now roy is not what he was, but he is still better thn anyone Joe has ever fought.

[Antonia Margarita]

zag is dirty and roy likes to hit fighters when they are down
seems even to me
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[Wladimir Klitschko Sucks]

Jones should win this fairly easily. Calzaghe could not handle Hopkins speed, and even got floored by the light hitting middlewieght,

WKS

[TDKO]

Prime Roy pot shots Zag all night with sneak right hands as he's coming in and cruises to a close points victory....

But, unless he has a time machine, Roy cannot outwork Zag, he must hit him with something big right away, or it will be a long (boring) night.
Roy will land the sneak right, but doesn't have the energy or desire to follow up and finish. Roy's right is quite a bit faster then Hopkin's , but lacks the snap as of late, and Zag won't be taken out with one shot.

Close points victory for Joe with a few "moments" as Roy tries to emulate his old self. collect a payday and go back to where the weather is bad.....

[diggity]

Call me stupid but I'm buying this fight and I'm halfway even looking forward to it. It is a lot more interesting to me now than it was back when it was made. This is a huge fight for both guys.

JC has a lot to lose and not much to gain as compared to RJJ. For JC if anything, it preserves his perfect record and he takes out a big name which would be a pretty nice cap to his career.

For RJJ, this can erase many wrongs in the past few years. Should RJJ win this convincingly, it would be huge. I don't care what happened to RJJ the past few years, taking out JC would clean the slate nicely for retirement.

I thought this would easily set a nice stage for RJJ/BHop 2 in the wake of the domination of Pavlik, but RJJ recently has made it abundantly clear that he is not interested but whatever. That is a fight I would not have bought even if I got free beer. It pretty much sucked the first time and I wouldn't be holding any hope its better the second time around almost 20 years later.

My head picks a JC UD after a rough start but I would not rule out a surprise KO in 9 by a very motivated RJJ.

[sr71ko]

Call me stupid but I'm buying this fight and I'm halfway even looking forward to it. It is a lot more interesting to me now than it was back when it was made. This is a huge fight for both guys.

JC has a lot to lose and not much to gain as compared to RJJ. For JC if anything, it preserves his perfect record and he takes out a big name which would be a pretty nice cap to his career.

For RJJ, this can erase many wrongs in the past few years. Should RJJ win this convincingly, it would be huge. I don't care what happened to RJJ the past few years, taking out JC would clean the slate nicely for retirement.

I thought this would easily set a nice stage for RJJ/BHop 2 in the wake of the domination of Pavlik, but RJJ recently has made it abundantly clear that he is not interested but whatever. That is a fight I would not have bought even if I got free beer. It pretty much sucked the first time and I wouldn't be holding any hope its better the second time around almost 20 years later.

My head picks a JC UD after a rough start but I would not rule out a surprise KO in 9 by a very motivated RJJ.

I don't think that you are stupid. I am going to a local bar and pay $5 to get in and watch this fight. A prime Roy Jones from 1988-1998@ 168-175lbs would destroy Calzaghe inside of 10 rounds. But the only real questions are what do Roy bring to the table and what does he have left? Back to back ko losses to Tarver and Glen Johnson made Roy look shot and weak. The prime Roy had a pretty good chin. If Roy has anything left then he will beat Calzaghe. What bothers me about Calzaghe is how easily he was hurt and floored by B-Hop. Roy@168-175lbs was a huge puncher with awesome speed. If the 2008 version of Roy Jones has any of ko power and speed then he will kick Calzaghe butt. What makes this fight interesting is will we see a Roy Jones train wreck or a restoration of an all-time great fighter ala B-Hop vs. Pavlik?

[PD99]

Dig - no, you're not stupid. Fans often become a little too precious in their intellectual approach to an upcoming bout.

Boxing isn't enjoying the heights that it has in previous yrs (fans repeating this in mantra-like fashion isn't going to help) but die hards will take what they can get, particularly when it involves a personal favourite.

Imo, anticipation and speculation is an important part of the whole package and if you can reasonably set up a compelling set of reasons to watch this, go for it!

Personally I wouldn't buy this fight but in my neck of the woods I can watch the bout for free at my local club, something I will endeavour to do.

Upon the Tarver and Johnson losses, I NEVER viewed Jones as literally shot. He'd simply lost a step in mobility and reflex making him that much more hittable. Imo, this simply revealed a chin that was likely, always less than stellar but a chin that was never truly tested in his prime.

I don't question Jones' courage, it is, after all, his professional obligation to be on his feet at fight's end but his express efforts to avoid punishment in the Johnson fight and to some extent, the second Tarver fight, were obviously counterproductive. So, for all intents and purposes, following the Johnson fight I would've agreed that Jones was "shot" if was not able to modify his mindset.

Given Calzaghe's work rate, Jones should not look solely to boxing to a decision, a strategy that would always see him lose and perhaps even result in him being KO'd or stopped. No, imo, Jones should enter the bout with a mindset to kill or be killed or at least gain measurable respect from the get go with some welll placed power shots. Ultimately, Jones just might surprise himself and his fans as to how effective that strategy might be with little punishment incurred along the way. Sometimes the best form of defense is offense and, for Jones at this point in his career, I think that is the case.

The aura of Jones is gone forever and I think every man and his dog now thinks he has a good chance to level the once great Jones and it's tough when a once great fighter can't even milk some advantage of his once formidable reputation, at least for a few rds breather. The only things Calzaghe will show respect for will be the things that Jones actually does in the ring. Imo, Jones better establish whatever he has left in his arsenal very early in the fight.

[hawk5ins]

Is THIS fight at the stage of his career that Jones is at, worth $50.00?

THAT is the issue here. Less that the fight has been made. But that promoters are going to serve this up to you at an absurd cost.

And with that, I am 100% wiht Surf here in that if you DO pay to watch this fight, YOU are part of the problem.

I will catch a replay and follow the fight here.

But no one is getting a dime from me for this fight.

I think the bout will be awful. ANd Jones has shown me nothing dating back the the 3rd Tarver bout that would make me think he could win.

Hopkins performance in the Pavlik bout was not all that surprising to me becuase A-I didn't believe two wins over Taylor were making me see anything more than a good tough fighter.

And B-At least Hopkins HAD shown impressive performances SINCE the "losses" to Taylor. Tarver being one and to a lesser degree, Wright.

Bernard COULD have won both Taylor Stinkers and the Joe C bout was very close as well. He'd NEVER lost conclusively in the manner Jones had in the 2nd and 3rd Tarver fights and Johnson.

Since then, Jones' comp has been below average at best.

Hopkins since his two "losses", has been fighting INFINITELY superior comp.

So I think it's a stretch to draw a parrallel between Hopkins' revival and any hope for A Jones duplication.

Calzaghe Is not at the top of HIS game any more either IMO. But HE is a whole 'nother ball of wax compared to what Jones has been in with recently.

The intrigue for me here is that if SOMEHOW Jones Did pull this off, a rematch with Hopkins 200 years later, would be interesting (and we thought Leonard Hearns II was an absurd wait. Hell that was ONLY 8 years!)

But the intrigue is not so great that I'm willing to pay for Cal and Jones.

And certainly NOT $50.00.

Hawk

[Overhand_Right]

Luckily this fight isn't on PPV in the UK (they save PPV for 'treats' such as Hatton/Lascano and Prescott/Khan...), so i'll certainly be up late on saturday night.

This fight scares me for two reasons, one, RJJ would of splattered ol padded record Joe in his heyday, and two, in the probable event that JC wins, for the rest of my days we in the UK will have to see his sneering smarmy face wheeled out on TV as 'the greatest ever' and hear about his WBOllocks '10 year reign'.... I'm breaking into a sweat just writing it.

For these reasons, in order to preserve my sanity, i NEEED Jones to somehow turn back the clock on saturday and whip this face first slapper.

Please God. Pleeeease!!!

[diggity]

Good post PD99

I don't think its worth the money at all but its more than I would have spent on drinks at a bar where replays of MMA would be playing all night. No bars by me get boxing anymore so I dont have the luxury of a $5 cover charge to get by on this fight. So I'll play the bad guy this time. I pass many a PPV fight on principle but I have always been fans of RJJ & Calzaghe so this fight would have always been a guilty pleasure somewhat. But had JC not beaten Hopkins (won may be a better word) and Hopkins not undressed Pavlik, this fight would have a lot less interest to me. RJJ also has not really done anything to redeem himself since the losses so I would like to see him finally own up and take his shot.

This fight doesn't have Hopkins or a big name vs a nobody or a fat & slow Tito or Tua so I really don't see it being such a bad thing. These guys are in great shape and certainly have life left. JC has earned his right to PPV fights the past few years and I'm much happier spending my money for the sake of him than RJJ. I also see RJJ having a real live chance here so I just see it as there are worse things to spend my money on than this.

[TDKO]

I guess when you are or were a fan of someone like RJJ, you remember the highlight reels more then the trips to sleep on the canvas. I may still purchase this fight, though it would seem a steep mountain for RJJ to climb. Zag can go 12 full 3 minute rounds, RJJ will have to pick his spots, and cannot win a decison unlless he hurts Joe early and stays on the outside, that off tempo sneak right hand will have to be the weapon of choice, and I think Joe will get hit by it, but if he can take it, it will be a boring UD for him. Joe says he wants to hurt Roy early and not "pitter pat" his punches, can he do that? I think this fight is somewhat interesting, could the stars be lining up for the RJJ B-hop rematch? That would be much more interesting then a Zag Bhop rematch.
I guess we still think the old horses may have one more race in them......

[diggity]

"Roy can handle the volume of punches," Hopkins said of Calzaghe's output. "He has the ability to neutralize it. Roy's not going to stop it, but he will neutralize it to the point where will Joe will fight using a different tactic and see what else he can do.

"I think I exposed to the world that Joe throws a lot of punches -- you can't take that away from him -- but are the punches he throws effective? Does he connect enough to get points? He throws a lot of punches, but not effective punches. That's where Roy beats him by a landslide."
Hopkins said he thinks Jones is a better puncher than Calzaghe and only a "tad" slower.
"Roy is fast and Roy can hurt you," Hopkins said. "Once that happens, Joe will realize he will have to give Roy Jones respect. It's not how many punches you throw, it's how hard you hit.
That's the difference in the end.
"I think Roy Jones wins by unanimous decision. I think he busts Joe up. Roy is two times faster than me and I had Joe's face busted up. Last time I saw, Roy Jones is faster than Bernard Hopkins. I look for Roy to pot shot Joe. Roy knows this guy very well. Roy ain't a fool. He's a smart man. He knows who to pick on as far as what they can do and what they can't do. Joe's not a big puncher who can hurt him so Roy is going to take a lot more chances than he ever took. He saw me fight Joe from ringside. I'm not the biggest puncher in the world, and I put [Calzaghe] on his a-- [in the first round]. Roy knows something. I gave him something to realize about Joe. I think Roy, at the end, with his speed and all-around athleticism, you will start seeing the difference between him and Joe in the middle rounds.
"Joe ain't gonna knock Roy out, he doesn't punch like that. He doesn't put himself in position to knock you out. He's mastered volume. He is a Hall of Famer. He wants to outwork you. But unless Joe comes out and does something out of character, that's the only way [a knockout] will happen. I don't think it will happen that way, like one punch knocks Roy on the ground. But that is not Joe.
"It's going to be a long fight. It will be mainly about conditioning. Who can throw, who can hurt and who can do it for 12 rounds? It's a big task for both of them."

[diggity]

One thing I like for RJJ in this fight is his lead right. If he has the comfort to pull the trigger on it, he should hit JC all night with it. If he does not get that going, he might as well pack it in because its the only way he is going to get respect.

JC on the other hand is going to need to figure out a way to smother this shot if he starts to get into trouble with it. He is open for this punch & it kept him honest with BHop. With RJJ it will be coming at him much faster. Way back when, RJJ would have given him a lot of problems with that shot. We will see.

[10-8]

This might come back to bite me in the ass but I'm taking Jones. No real analytical breakdown, just gut instinct and my distaste for JC's fighting style and inflated record.

Bring on Jones-Hopkins II. I wanna feel young again!

[Paulie W]

It's almost impossible to call this fight IMO because I have no idea how much Jones has left - not much it would seem - and I'm equally unclear as to how far Joe has deteriorated - the Hopkins fight already suggested quite some way but at his age and with his style the drop off is going to be rapid for Calzaghe.

[hawk5ins]

is interesting.

But to me it comes off as wishful thinking.

We KNOW who he wants to win.

Joe C. Hopkins II wouldn't draw flies.

Hawk

[TDKO]

Hawkins...

Absolutely, Hopkins is on the campaign trail!
Dollars speak, and admit it, you would probably buy this fight,
or at least be quite interested.
And this could be a very large PPV

Maybe Oscar will be his VP

[hawk5ins]

That this is Hopkins' goal.

The way I see it is this way: If I were to entertain purchasing Hopkins Jones II, I'm not going to first pay to see Cal Jones, becuase A-I'm not into dropping $50 bucks every time a fight has fleeting interest with me.

THis is not the days where I could get friends to chip in to buy Leonard Hearns II....Fighters they had heard of, had seen and had been entertained by in the past.

BTW, I did not purchase Hopkins Pavlik either.

B-I'm not expecting Jones to win. So the motivation of seeing THIS fight live, prior to a Potential Hopkins Jones rematch, isn't all that enticing, as I am not expecting THIS fight to lead to the One I ACTUALLY would be interested in seeing.

Which to be frank, that I am interested in seeing a rematch of Hopkins Jones, illustrates how low the bar is set these days for me. The First fight was absolutely colorless. No...It sucked.

That I have even a passing interest in seeing a rematch of THAT fight, 16 years later........Well, what else needs to be said?

I guess I'll take what I can get......even if what I can get, couldn't carry the Jockstrap of the fights I couldn't WAIT to see, when the sport was still at its apex.

Hawk

[TDKO]

Yes,

The bar is set incredibly low, I remeber when they were talking about this figh
years ago, "60-40 and I kick your ass", from Roy, even then it was kinda ho hum......
But as a fan I also take what I can get
Someone WILL come along eventually and reignite boxing, with MMA possibly on the decline, there will be some incentive to be great, or at least make lots of money.

[diggity]

I don't care if RJJ stops JC in the first round, I still will not pay for RJJ-BHOP 2. JC-RJJ has the potential of being a stinkfest itself, forget about the stalest rematch out there today.

[GorDoom]

I didn't know if we were going to be able to cover this one because I couldn't find anybody who was buying it. Let's face it, this fight is as if the Superbowl was being played by guys all within a whisker of 40.

Personally I think this fight is a fucking joke but then, it's the only one we got this week. Luckily our man, Dig decided to buy it & cover it for us. A Tip O' The Fedora to Dig. Even though I & most of you won't be buying it we still want to know what is happening.

So again, thanks Dig!

Per usual please keep all discussion of this fight to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.

thanks,

GorDoom

[hawk5ins]

I think I need to keep reading your posts on this subject for the purpose of injecting some sobriety into my head, so that I can make a wise decision should a certain rematch ever come off.

Really now, can we see a show of hands from anyone who actually was enterertained by the Bowe Fergusson undercard 15 years ago?

Hawk