Calzaghe-Jones Results & Discussion Nov. 8/08

[diggity]

r12 thank god, i am such a sucker....jc jabs to the body....rjj with a right...& another....jc 1-2 to the body....roy misses with a right....jc backs roy into the corner....lands a wild left...rjj doing nothing on the ropes....roy throws a few shots, misses all....misses with an uppercut....lands a nice body shot on jc, he seemed surprised.....ref falls down ha!.....the fight ends
i only thank god i did not bother to go to this piece of shit

[diggity]

scores (like it matters)
all 3 the same
118-109
jc threw 985 punches landed 33%
outlanded him by almost 400 shots

[Ron Lipton]

Incredible, just incredible after all those HBO shows on the lead up t the fight.

All the stuff RJJ talked about JC having to kill him to win. How many rounds did you give RJJ Diggity?

[Wing master]

Thanks Diggity.

Randy

[Ron Lipton]

Thanks Dig,
much appreciated

[SigniferSanctusMichael]

Yeah, many thanks from me too, Diggity!

[hawk5ins]

Did the Bodyshot/forearm, seem to hurt Cal or knock him off balance and down? Was it clear live that the shot seemed as "odd" as you described it? (A Forearm?).

BTW, Earle has been reffing bouts and title fights for years dating back to the early 80's. Title fights involving Brian Mitchell, Myung Woo Yuh, Virgil Hill, among others and as recently as 2007 in an IBF Super Bantamweight championship bout involving Steve Molitor.

I beleive his first title fight was in 1986 when Donald Curry defended his Welterweight crown for the final time agianst Eduardo Rodriguez.

Hawk

[Ron Lipton]

JC probably wanted a ref from outside the USA. Saw his full record.
How did he do tonight?

[Ron Lipton]

Was the forearm knockdown an incorrect call? Other websites say the knockdown came from a "Glancing right hand." Other than that, did Roy Jones Jr win more than two rounds? Did the crowd consider it a legit knockdown or the HBO staff once they saw it was a forearm, did they say the knockdown was not legit??

[Off The River]

When I first saw the knockdown, I thought it was a hook to the body. My initial reaction was the Joe was in for a short night. The replay, from what I saw that is...with an infant eating his milk and a toddler upset because his lego would'nt go together properly) was a hard jab followed by a right which Joe ducked into. It was quick and short and would have been tough to spot from almost any angle. The forearm was hard enough to cut the bridge of Joe's nose. I would tend to think most refs would have called it a knockdown and not been criticised too much for it.

Ron, In the end the ref did a decent job... from my untrained eye of course. The only exception was he slipped while breaking the fighters from a clinch in the twelfth.

It was a great performance and win for Joe Calzaghe in my opinion. I've always felt that he has (and most European fighters) nnever gotten the credit he deserved.

He was so much faster than Jones in this fight, and took some hard shots along the way with little problem. This leads me to believe he would have given Roy trouble at any time of his career.

I think this is the only time in my life that I actually enjoyed showboating in a fight. I always despised Jones' cocky demeanor in the ring and to see the Karmanic Laws shoved in his face was a bit of poetic justise for me. Joe fought with his hands down for a good deal of the fight, laughed of any and all of Jones punches and basically threw a whole career of taunting and showboating right back in Roy's face. I thought that it was going to cost him dearly, but if and when Jones did land a good shot, Joe just shrugged it off.

This fight convinces me of three things; How good Joe Calzaghe is despite the criticism he has had over the years, how good Hopkins is and how solid of puncher he is at Lt Heavyweight today.

[Mike DeLisa]

Calzaghe was called by Buffer "... and still light heavyweight champion" -- did I miss something?

[hawk5ins]

Just so I am clear here: THe Body punch and the Forearm were not the same punches correct?

Sounds to me like there was a bodypunch that was followed by a forearm, to I assume Cal's face, that ulitmately caused the cut on Joe's nose.

Do I have that correct, or are beers I've been consuming, telling me I am reading that Joe got knocked down by a body punch, that was actually a forearm, which also caused a cut on Joe's nose?

Oy.

Hawk

[PD99]

Hawk - I just caught the briefest of highlights. Jones fired a left jab. Jones then swung a right parallel to the floor and as he did so, Calzaghe ducked and Jones' right forearm caught Calzaghe flush and hard on the proboscis which directly caused Calzaghe to fall. Scanning various reports on the internet, Calzaghed admitted to being "stunned" by the shot that put him down.

[wildhawke11]

Dig
Again thank you for a great report on the fight even if i did get knocked off line before the last round.
Thanks Buddy

[Off The River]

I think it's the beers Hawk. I'll break it down in pure Beerlish.

Jones...threw n hi9t with jab...slurrrr
Jonessss fffollowed up with short right which looked like it was to the body from my angle, but actually was the fuckin forearm that eberybudy was talkin bout.

The forearm hurt the fucker from that country with the same name as the larget aminal on the planet n he took a knee. Calshaggy gor up and beat RJ like he stole his soccer ball.

Hope that helps!

[Adeyinka]

I listened to this bout live on the radio as I tend to with fights with a British interest and feel the better for it whether my reasoning is based on:

a) Apathy

or

b) Cheapness

or

c) financial embarassment

I can only imagine the pre-TV / PPV days when fans huddled by radios listening to the pride of say Britain or Nigeria, fight American opposition in meaningful world championship bouts

PS

I guess they no longer grant live radio broadcast rights in the States...

[hawk5ins]

I was thinking a full day of college football might have gotten my head a bit crooked.

The dollar is in the mail!

Much appreciated as always!

Ade, I am thinking getting play by play (and btw, I fall into all three categories you described!) on the net is indeed our equvilant of listening to a fight on the radio.

I personally have never listened to a fight on the radio and would think it would be awesome to have been able to do so.

Closest I have come is "watching" scrambled signals of Page Tubbs, Holyfield Mercer and a handful of other fights where the picture on the tube was purposefully mangled and I could only hear the announcers.

Holyfield Mercer was in a Hotel room and If i cocked my head just so, I could ALMOST make out a Holyfield bicep.

Hawk

[HE Grant]

I recently rewatched the Hopkins/Cal fight and have to say it's time for me to give Cal some serious due ... On a rewatch he really did defeat Hopkins and coming off the Pavlik domination it proved a serious victory ... Now he dominates Jones ... since all three have seen better days I'm throwing the age thing into the same mix ... Of course I did not see this fight yet but will catch it ...

[10-8]

Saw the fight live last night (for free). Firstly Roy won the first round and possibly the second that's all I gave him. He spent much of the fight on the ropes, gloves in front of his face while Calzaghe slapped him. There were a few rounds which I was wavering on after 2 minutes but then Roy would cover up and do nothing the last part of the round. Roy attempted the right lead but threw it mostly to JC's body. Roy barely threw or landed any left hooks at all.

I kept waiting for Jones to spring off the ropes with loaded punches which never happened. What was additionally sad/pathetic was that JC showboated every round forever dropping his hands and sticking out his face, even on the inside and Roy never tried to make him pay. Any hope of an RJ comeback was a no hope once he got cut. RJ was far too reluctant/cautious to take chances. RJ used an actual doctor in his corner who claimed they were using a solution to stem the bleeding but all the camera showed was steady pressure from a Q-tip. It was a real bad cut and bled freely. Lesser cuts have resulted in stoppages.

When Ali lost to Holmes I remember him saying that he saw the openings but before he could react they were gone. This is exactly what I thought of during this fight. Roy would feint, angle and position himself but rarely throw. He moved like the Roy of old except when it came to actually throwing punches. Lots of posing instead of punching.

The left jab which Roy usually neglected in his prime should have been used in this fight. In one of the rounds he started firing it and was landing it clean on JC. It was fast and acurate then RJJ just a s quickly abandoned it.

JC was definitely hurt from the KD to the point that I thought we might see the surprise of surprises but Roy saw his opportunity slip away when he couldn't put anything of consequence together afterwards.

Bottom line on JC is the guy has a TON of confidence and is a busy, active and awkward guy who throws a ton of punches and appears tireless. I'm not completely sold on his chin and his punching power is simply weak. He slaps alot of his punches , rarely planting and digging his power shots. He looks amatuerish to my eyes but hey....they guy's never lost so who the hell am I to knock him.

PS: JC looks like a clown when he showboats. Drop the act or use it sparingly unless you want to turn off even more fight fans.

[hawk5ins]

It's ironic that he has repeatedly stated he has NO RESPECT for Hopkins and had all this repect for Jones, but it's Jones he mocked and clowned with.

I guess given the closeness and competitiveness of his fight with Bernard, that trying to "show up" Hopkins was not all that wise.

No matter how much contempt he had for Hops.

I'm not big on clowning in any circumstance. But I think it shows very little balls to humiliate a fighter who has no ability or resources left to do anything against you. Show some nads and pull that shit with a competitive fighter.

Then let's see how funny you are.

Then again, maybe this was a bit of Karma coming back to Bite Jones in the ass.

Hard.

Hawk

[Adeyinka]

Ade, I am thinking getting play by play (and btw, I fall into all three categories you described!) on the net is indeed our equvilant of listening to a fight on the radio.

I personally have never listened to a fight on the radio and would think it would be awesome to have been able to do so.

Closest I have come is "watching" scrambled signals of Page Tubbs, Holyfield Mercer and a handful of other fights where the picture on the tube was purposefully mangled and I could only hear the announcers.


Hawk

Hawk,
I guess it's a state of mind which fluctuates with one reason perhaps dominating at the time of any given bout -but like you all three are simultaneously recurring factors with me.

One thing you've got to give to radio announcers is the enthusiam they convey even when nothing major is happening! But I find listening pretty OK because they are speaking over the noise of the arena and I heard a bit of leather and and the rumblings of footwork on the canvas. In fact, during rare intervals of the commentators' banter I even recognised Roy's distinctive snorting; though it appears to have been a case of "all snort and no fire" from him....

[10-8]

I have no real issue with an Ali dropping his hands against a dangerous, prime Frazier or a Ray Leonard using a bolo against a competitive Duran or Hagler.

Watching JC constantly dropping his hands and doing a shimmy or chicken dance against a 38 year old clearly washed up Jones who was bleeding like a pig in self preservation mode didn't do much for my already limited appreciation of the guy.

[bodyblow]

you can throw age out the window. Calzaghe is only about 2 years younger than Jones. This is a fight that should have happened YEARS ago but Jones avoided it like he avoided fights with Darius and just about any other threatening challenger.

[Michael Frank]

I have no real issue with an Ali dropping his hands against a dangerous, prime Frazier or a Ray Leonard using a bolo against a competitive Duran or Hagler.

Watching JC constantly dropping his hands and doing a shimmy or chicken dance against a 38 year old clearly washed up Jones who was bleeding like a pig in self preservation mode didn't do much for my already limited appreciation of the guy.

I agree. Showing up or showing off against a washed up fighter is classless and also pointless. No "fan" enjoys it, either.

Separately, was there any doubt about the outcome before last night? Except for Hopkins, doesn't the old fighter (who was KO'd in some previous recent losses) always lose to the younger champion, and isn't a key reason the older man's propensity to not "get off" (i.e., not to punch)? This is an almost immutable law of the universe, or at least of boxing.

[Crold1]

I have no real issue with an Ali dropping his hands against a dangerous, prime Frazier or a Ray Leonard using a bolo against a competitive Duran or Hagler.

Watching JC constantly dropping his hands and doing a shimmy or chicken dance against a 38 year old clearly washed up Jones who was bleeding like a pig in self preservation mode didn't do much for my already limited appreciation of the guy.

Please...in this particular case it was nothing but poetic justice. Jones handpicked B and C guys and humiliated them with similar and worse nonsense for years. Calzaghe was the sort of foe he regularly avoided. Now Roy can spend the rest of his life, even knowing he was a great fighter, having tatsed his own medicine and wondering how great he might have been with showing more fighter an d less manager in his prime.

[10-8]

Cliff, in the past Jones got over-matched guys out of there.

Calzaghe couldn't bust a fermented grape so he resorted to that shit non-stop all fight.

If you in particular enjoy watching that crap in lieu of punching power or at the very least the ability to take out an out-gunned opponent, all the power to you.

I simply don't.

[diggity]

The showboating was definitely over the top but like many have said, RJJ had it coming. What shocked me the most was how JC would stick his unguarded head right between RJJs gloves over and over all night. I really couldnt describe it fast enough as it was happening last night. There were times he got caught with RJJs shots like this but they didn't do a damn thing. JC toyed with him like a child. Once I saw that JC was not hurt by a punch in the first round, I knew the abberation was over and this was 2 guys fighting at different levels the past 5 years and the difference was now very clear.

The honestly fight became a little hard to watch. RJJ was embarrassed and beaten in every sense of the word. If RJJ was truly just getting "slapped" he would not have been so reserved. There were a few points where RJJ was stunned against the ropes and hand nothing to offer back. JC hurt him to the body all night and it definitely showed.

There is nothing left for RJJ. He is completely spent. BHop would murder him.

JC isnt the most attractive fighter to watch but he is special without a doubt.
I hope he retires. It was a joke how them mentioned Dawson last night. There is nothing more for JC to do.

[Kid Dynamite]

Jones should have retired after his loss to Glen Johnson. Amazing how a fighter can fall so quickly. He barely won and looked flat out old against Tarver and then went on to lose three in a row.

I didnt watch the fight last night as I thought it was a farce. I caught replays of RJ's fight with Tito and Prince yesterday. I couldnt help but notice how bad Jones looked in both fights. He looked old and he just had trouble getting off. His speed was still pretty good but he was getting hit with shots that he would easily have countered years ago.

Calzaghe is only three years younger but it is easy to see that Roy Jones lost his magic in 2003. Fighters who rely on their God given speed like jones are the ones that fall off early. It was amazing that he could still fight as well as he did until his mid 30's. That he is fighting Calzagle in 2008 is a joke.

[10-8]

If RJJ was truly just getting "slapped" he would not have been so reserved. There were a few points where RJJ was stunned against the ropes and hand nothing to offer back. JC hurt him to the body all night and it definitely showed.

Fair enough Dig but JC threw over 900 punches and landed at something like 35%, most against an immobile Jones. I assume some punches had some zap, but especially viewing those ultra-slow-mo replays of JC's shots, it is apparent that JC doesn't punch with maximum leverage or a puncher's technique.

Let's see the results of a light heavywight who could punch hit Jones with that number and we'll see what would have been left of RJJ and the damage done.

[diggity]

Hey, I'm not saying JC is a devastating puncher and never did but he absolutely not throwing pillows in there. I just don't see the point on getting down on the lack of JCs punching power. If he were really that weak, he wouldn't be where he is. Its just a useless point IMO. With the exception of BHop, nobody gets out of one of his fights unscathed. RJJ was quoted last night "the pitty-pat shots were harder than I thought they were going to be." Lacy looked like he was in a car accident when JC was done with him. That doesn't happen with pillows.

Anyway
I watched some old RJJ before the fight started and one of the most obvious differences was how his footspeed diminished. As he became more of a flat footed fighter, his decline continued. I think the Hall fight was the last time his footwork was his classic stuff. He used to float effortlessly away from shots, countering from crazy angles. That guy has been gone a long time. After the Hall fight RJJ started to look less and less spectacular, laying on the ropes more & etc. Guys like Gonzales & Woods were hitting RJJ more than they would of years prior.

Last night was especially sad how RJJ would throw the lead right without confidence and was not committing to the shot like he did with Tito back in January.

The punch that KDd JC was not a glancing shot. It was a flush forearm to the nose that JC ducked into. RJJ did land a nice jab before the shot but that was it.

The second round really made it look like it was going to be a fight but that quickly changed in the third where JC stuck his chin out there repeatedly and RJJ threw less & less. JC finished the round with his hands at his sides, baiting RJJ. RJJ threw like 3 or 4 shots and missed all of them. I really have to credit the body work by JC. It without a doubt took a lot of steam out of him. Nobody went to the body on RJJ like JC did. Every flurry in the corner JC was sure to land body shots. At the end of the 4th, RJJ landed a nice overhand right. JC wobbled in jest with his hands down, RJJ hit him with a 1-2 as he clowned & he didn't blink an eye. It just got worse from there.