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Ugly it was , I vowed to never watch another B-Hop fight after Taylor II
and then......I bought the Pavlik fight thinking he would have the power to hurt B-Hop, and put him in his defensive shell and outpoint him, but it didn't quite turn out that way.......
Hawk....different strokes.....
(Have you seen Turturros' Heineken commercial yet?)
And I DO think it was funny!
Love Turturro!
Full disclosure from me: I just went and re-read the CBZ reactions to Cal and Hops and I do see several posters here stating Cal won clearly, and a number called the bout close and/or had Hops winning.
I just read a couple of MY posts and at the time of watching the bout, I had Cal winning a VERY close bout.
I ALSO rewatched the fight the night of the Cal Jones fight and my post in the same thread (Cal Hop discussion thread) states that I scored the bout for Cal AGIAN in a very close fight.
What is Odd about that post of mine is that I recall that I recently rewatched the bout agian on an HBO replay of the fight (not sure why or when. I DID think it was aroudn the time of the Cal Jones bout) and I have at my desk the scribble sheet of my card showing a W for Hopkins (amongst other junk!)
I know I think Bernard won (and won in dreadfuly unimpressive and boring fashion) after that last viewing.....but I'm not recollecting the Nov. post or my scoring for Cal.
EITHER way, the Post mentions a "thisclose" fight and agian, I have no issue with it being a point either way. I simply don't think it was a CLEAR win either way.
God forbid I have to watch the fight agian to get a FRESH card on this!
YIKES!
Hawk
Get a drink in ya first Hawk before pulling that one off again.
I tried rewatching in several times in the past month but could never sit through it without allowing something to distract me.
I hear your points but I think BHop's performace against Zag was due more to Zag's speed, footwork, defense and unorthodox style more than anything else. He was the most complete fighter he ever faced really. As the same can be said for Tarver with BHop to a degree But in Tarver's case, he has much more clear cases of him coming in flat than BHop does. I can't say I can ever say I've seen BHop flat (although his style is generally flat). He may be an old man but if you give the guy room to think & operate such as Pavlik and Tarver did, you are going to be in some trouble. I think he saw those fights as bigger threats and probably kicked it up a notch as well.
I need much coaxing to get a drink in me before doing much of anything!
Hell who know? The Drinks may be RESPONSIBLE for my scorecards!
Hawk
Haha
Hey, its Friday & I'm still at work so all I got are drinks on the mind at the moment.
You know what, who cares.Originally Posted by diggity
Not slating you posting it; I mean who cares if he has retired.
He was quite uninspiring I always thought!
Great champion in his era; after that, well, I'm lost for words
Friday? Why wait til Friday?
The bars are always MORE crowded on Fridays and it takes longer to get a drink!
I'm a Tuesday Wednesday type o' guy.
No problem getting a seat at the bar. Possible one on one relationship with the Bartender. And you tend to be less of a "red flag" driving home.
Of course being married with kids now.....I'm referring to MY Glory Days.
Now it's falling asleep in a lounge chair at home watching reruns of CSI.....and only a beer or two deep.
Sigh......
Hawk
Fighters don't get to choose.
It would have been nice to see him and Taylor.
I certainly don't wait for Friday or a bar for that matter.
I'm fine right at home.
Drinks are just better on Fridays or really any day where waking up for work the following morning isn't an issue.
I would have liked to see him against Johnson or Taylor.
They would have been good fights but really nothing in it for Joe.
Sure, a lot of the old guys would have a field day with Cal's comp...some perhaps with Cal...but not all. The most you can do is prove you could have fought in any era and there's no reason to think someone with Cal's skill set and aptitude (same for a guy like Hopkins) might not have been even better given more looks and greater volume of live fire in earlier eras. Anyone who rates Rocky Marciano, Ricardo Lopez or Larry Holmes as great must presume the same of Calzaghe.
1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Bob Fitzsimmons
3. Jim Driscoll
4. Ted Kid Lewis
5. Jackie Kid Berg
6. Owen Moran
7. Freddie Welsh
8. Ken Buchanan
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Benny Lynch
11. Howard Winstone
12. Joe Calzaghe
Joe now joins some great names in the pantheon of Brit all-timers.
Lennox is ninth on that list? Wow!
I though for sure he was p4p greater than all those guys. He really was the best heavyweight of the 90's and the 2000's.
I think he would have beat Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield at the their p4p best all by KO.
Well, he had two shots at the non-best version of Holyfield. PeteLeo.
Well said Pete.
Whilst I'd favour Lennox over prime versions of Mike, Evander and Riddick, it wasn't as if he wasn't prone to underperforming. If hacks like Mercer, McCall and even Rahman can give him trouble, what's to say he doesn't get blitzed by a Mike, Evander or Riddick?
I was disappointed to see the BBC report on Calzaghe's retirement where they suggested that Calzaghe is the best British boxer ever purely because of his record.
The BBC Sport Editor, Mihir Bose, interviewed him and towards the end of the segment he did a voice over and said:
"So who deserves the title of Britain's greatest boxer?
The lightweight Ken Buchanan won 61 fights in the 70s, but lost 8 times. Barry McGuigan, born in Ireland, was a British and World Featherweight champion who won 32 fights and lost only 3 times.
Lennox Lewis, the last of the great British heavyweights, won 42 fights, losing twice.
But Joe Calzaghe's record soars above them all. 46 professional fights without a defeat."
I heard someone on the radio yesterday mention that Calzaghe had been slagging Froch off recently. Found these clips on YouTube. To me, Calzaghe comes off looking like a dick with his comments here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u7a0vOKyLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AOIHqtFjtg
Thank you for posting that, I enjoyed it very much.
Froch's been talking trash on Froch for a couple years; Calzaghe firing back is par for the course.
I understand how he may want to fire back, but what he's saying makes no sense to me. For example, in the second clip he talks about how he vacated the belt Froch just won and says:
"To be a World Champion he needs to fight a World Champion"
Calzaghe won his WBO title against a fading Eubank, and it was vacant when he won it. He didn't fight another champion until he faced Lacy 9 years later.
Yes he did not KO him. I would say it was not Lennox on his best night. More to the point. Lennox has to be the greatest British fighter of all-time.
Mercer is certainly no hack. I think it's also a stretch to call the others hacks back in the day either.
the BEST thing that could have happened to Lennox Lewis in his first fight with Evander Holyfield, was to have had the decision be as controversial as it was.
The controversy really clouded up his performance in that fight, which while a pretty clear decision win, was greatly dissappointing.
Evander not only was not at his best when he faced Lewis. In that fight he fought abysmally and for Lewis to not have capitalized in a FAR more impressive fashion than he did, was pretty dissappointing and boardered on disgraceful.
Lewis had TWO moments to really shine when he faced Holyfield. In the first bout he should have REALLY cleaned up. In the return bout, you would have thought he would have fought with more fire as well. Sure Evander looked better and Yes I do still think Lewis won, in a very close fight, but He STILL should have stepped it up more than he did.
He had a "revenge" beef going into the rematch. And he fought as though he wanted to do "just enough".
Lewis, who I have always pulled for (same with Evander btw), I thought underperformed in BOTH bouts agianst Evander. And that was NOT an Evander at HIS best.
Holyfield AT his best vs. Lewis at his best.......I'm taking Evander.
Hawk
By KO or Decision?
ditto
Joe has some cheek really. He has knocked nobody out. He slaps and couldn't even dent Manfredo. Hey, I respect Joe as a champion and do believe he was a fantastic fighter; he really did grow on me, but he was protected for quite a while and hardly fought anyone much better than Froch. I'd love to see that fight. As Froch said; what motivated Joe to fight a bum like Manfredo?
Yet, he won't offer Froch a shot. If Joe is so so sure he'd KO Froch; go do it and earn 5 million in the process.
I have a sneaky feeling he's playing it up to make more money later down the rd when the interest is greater!
When he "slapped" Lacy around I was pretty surprised. I hope he is not done. He is exactly what boxing was built on. Some dude talking himself into a fight and then backing it up with fist.
He really did a number on Lacy alright. Joe I think won't be back.
I won't really miss him. I always found his fights hard to watch.
Similar to trying to watch Steve Collins. Too sloppy
You are right about that sloppy stuff. I forgot about his other bouts. I did not like how he did Roy either. He probably beats a Roy in his prime.
You wanna' see a good Joe bout, watch Reid and Kessler. He looked very good in both and I think he does indeed pose problems even for a peak Jones.
He doesn't beat my man Toney though. No way!
Roy EASILY outpoints Joe in his prime, too much speed, excellent defense
and his legs still worked
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