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Thread: Calzaghe Retires

  1. #61
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    Quote Originally Posted by TDKO
    Roy EASILY outpoints Joe in his prime, too much speed, excellent defense
    and his legs still worked
    But remember, Joe too was past it when they did meet. So, expect a far better Joe in prime years. I am talking early noughties!

  2. #62
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    I tell you what, as a staunch RJJ supporter and a big fan of both, I now REALLY wonder how he would have been against Zag at prime. Of course this having nothing to do with their joke of a fight (exhibition really) a few months ago.

    I know RJJ was a marvel to watch but he has NONE of the grit Zag does. Zag on the other side does not get enough credit for his hand & foot speed. He stifled Kessler, RJJ & BHop with it. For a white boy, that aint' too bad. I'm now willing to bet he makes RJJ run if they fought at prime. RJJ may be more gifted but despite their obvious deficiencies that we all know too well, Zag may just be a more complete fighter than RJJ when it's said & done...much less of a front-runner than RJJ at the least.

  3. #63
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    Dig:
    Using one of the RJJ standards, Calzaghe almost never even lost rounds at 168. Calzaghe's knockdowns all occurred later in his career suggesting decreased punch resistance with age (but outstanding recuperative ability). Anyone who think Jones whitewashes Calzaghe, both on their best day, is nuts.

  4. #64
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    Okay Cliff I'm nuts......

    Prime RJJ was a step faster then Joe, and had better power,
    only knocked down once (by a former sparring partner who had a bead on his rhythm , and never was hurt.
    Better physical gifts, ('cept MAYBE heart),
    Speed is the main difference here, and Roy stays away while he potshots all night to a clear decision victory....
    Roy's legs were so gone in their fight it is no barometer of what could have been.

    Pass the cashews

  5. #65
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    TDKO:
    I'm not saying he doesn't win, he probably does, but Joe gets stronger as fights go on so unless Roy gets him out early he's still forcing Roy to work late into the fight which Roy didn't like to do. Roy liked to get a lead and sit on it while his opponents sat outside and refused to punch for fear of the KO. Joe wasn't going to do that.

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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    Cliff,

    Roy had enough pop in his shots to keep Joe from just coming forward all night
    and Joe has never seen someone with Roy's combination of better speed and power, if an old Roy can put Joe on his seat, a prime can follow up, (maybe , cuz Roy was cautious when he hurt somebody), and definitely sting him again,
    POSSIBLY stop him.....(I said possibly).
    Prime Joe took more chances before his hands got brittle, which would definitely
    give Roy more counter punching opportunities..........

    IMO

  7. #67
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    Roy was still faster when they just met. Roy still hit harder, and Roy was still able to move around the ring. Are the both near in age? I don't know. Joe is/was as gifted as Roy. Not flashy, and who had truly seen him before the Lacy bout? I had Lacy and Hopkins schooling this man. Behind all that jazz Joe is a mentally hard man like the old fighters. Roy would have had to be at his absoute peak, no half-steppin to beat ol' Joe.

    Toney and Joe would have been a great brawl. Toney would have force Joe to trade, or Joe would have just flat out lost a decision.

    TD, pistaschios?
    Last edited by JLP 6; 02-14-2009 at 08:51 PM.

  8. #68
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    JL,

    The difference here as I mentioned in previous posts is that Roy's legs are GONE......watch him in any fight before the Ruiz fight, even in the Glen Johnson fight he looked fast, but his legs were long gone, and betrayed him.
    As far as the age , fighters age quite differently, Oscar done at age 35, and B-hop still going strong at 40+.....
    Joe as gifted?.......Not athletically
    Prime Toney, (not two ton Toney) would present an interesting challenge for Joe, I think Joe would win a decision based on punch output, Toney would have to connect with something hard while doing all that slipping and upperbody moving....while the rounds would creep away....

    Pistaschios are only helpfull if you are in an old James Bond movie......

  9. #69
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    Quote Originally Posted by TDKO
    JL,

    The difference here as I mentioned in previous posts is that Roy's legs are GONE......watch him in any fight before the Ruiz fight, even in the Glen Johnson fight he looked fast, but his legs were long gone, and betrayed him.
    As far as the age , fighters age quite differently, Oscar done at age 35, and B-hop still going strong at 40+.....
    Joe as gifted?.......Not athletically
    Prime Toney, (not two ton Toney) would present an interesting challenge for Joe, I think Joe would win a decision based on punch output, Toney would have to connect with something hard while doing all that slipping and upperbody moving....while the rounds would creep away....

    Pistaschios are only helpfull if you are in an old James Bond movie......
    LOL, I'm going to call it a day on that one. Peace.

  10. #70
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    Quote Originally Posted by JLP 6
    Roy was still faster when they just met. Roy still hit harder, and Roy was still able to move around the ring. Are the both near in age? I don't know. Joe is/was as gifted as Roy. Not flashy, and who had truly seen him before the Lacy bout? I had Lacy and Hopkins schooling this man. Behind all that jazz Joe is a mentally hard man like the old fighters. Roy would have had to be at his absoute peak, no half-steppin to beat ol' Joe.

    Toney and Joe would have been a great brawl. Toney would have force Joe to trade, or Joe would have just flat out lost a decision.

    TD, pistaschios?
    Toney is a bad style for Joe. Joe wouldn't be a bad style for Toney.
    Joe would lead in ths and be devestated with counters and most of Joe's shots will be hitting air. His lack of power will also be a factor. I think Toney wins ai any fashion!

  11. #71
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    Quote Originally Posted by JLP 6
    and who had truly seen him before the Lacy bout?
    Me and countless other UK fight fans and a few million UK sport fans on TV.

    Calzaghe should have been fighting more high profile fighters at least 5 years before the Lacy bout. But for various reasons that never happened. The Lacy bout was in my opinion the end of his 'prime' years after that he started to slip/age fast.

    Calzaghe was an outstanding fighter but did not have the competative career his talents deserved due to being overprotected for too many years and being so injury prone. His hands have been a mess since he wore a vest and headgear.

    From a UK fans point of view it's a shame he didn't come along 10 years earlier and fought his way to the top by battling UK rivals Graham, Watson, Eubank & Benn.

  12. #72
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    I too was calling for Calzaghe to meet the Americans a number of years ago while Joe was at his definite best, when I also think he would have won. But since it all came at the end in fights he got knocked down by equally finished fighters, I fear like so many in recent years the merits are unsubstanciated. Joe is not Britain's best nor should he along with others be credited as such, too many really greats well before him.

    BTW guys please look at my thread on Choi the feared featherweight, he is the real deal. He belongs to Jack Doughty the author of the Rochdale Thunderbolt, one of the best boxing books I've ever read. Anyway this fellow Choi would be an exciting breath of fresh air to the world boxing scene.

    Jim.

  13. #73
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    Re: Calzaghe Retires

    But Hopkins wasn't 'equally finished.' He showed it against Pavlik; he might not have been at his best but he's still one of the toughest outs in Boxing.

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