Can't BELIEVE no one is talking about this

[Mike DeLisa]

WOW! Only 30 years and I recalled that one!

[apollack]

Just to play devil's advocate, did the referee actually wave his arms in the air like the fight was over, or did he simply point Cintron to his corner because the bell rang and he was essentially noting that the round was over and directing him to go there?

[MSM]

To me it looks like he moves his left arm in a sweeping/waving motion with his fingers and thumb extended (as if he was showing a boxer a five count) and not pointing to the corner.

Also, if he just thought it was the end of the round why not react when Martinez was up on the ropes as if he'd won and the cameramen, etc. were entering the ring. To me he reacted like other refs would have, had they called the fight over.

[Mike DeLisa]

Maybe!

[Dan Gunter]

It looked to me as though the ref called the fight over. In fact, I don't think there's really a question about it.

[wildhawke11]

I also think the ref called the fight over at the time.

[Ron Lipton]

Ron: what do you think about instant replay in boxing? Really, a ref shouldn't need it for a count, but what about for cuts? Or late punches?

Reply: I think the panacea for all ills in this realm would be if the referee who is in charge of the boxing contest, calls for a time out and asks for an instant reply when a moment of extreme controversy arises when the referee was not in a position to see clearly whether a clash of heads or some other controvesry occurred.

If a referee is not sure, why not put ego aside because the most important thing is the fighter's welfare and the honesty of the contest. If there is doubt we are in an era where multiple camera angles capture it all.
Then the referee when shown the footage makes the ultimate decision, not the Commission members, and the authority still is retained by the appointed referee.

No one overrules him, no one interferes, yet the referee himself asked for the additional information which if promptly provided in a desperately contested hypethetical sceario, provides the truth of the incident, which of course is the finite information being sought, so there can be no doubt.

What could be more fair than that.

If the referee is positive whether right or wrong and makes a decisive call regarding anything in that ring, it stands, as it has in boxing history good or bad. Yet why not give the third man in the ring that intelligent option.

I'm all for it. Anything that helps and honest and fair contest is for the best.

[wildhawke11]

Why do we not knock nail's in with a rock
If you have the technology why not use it

[Mike DeLisa]

Under my version of "perfect world" you wouldn't need to call a time out.

If the bout was stopped for the cut, only then would you need to review to determine if a punch or butt.

That would also take out of the equation guys claiming they "can't see" when the referee rules a butt -- in my scenario, the referee wouldn't tell until after the bout needed to be stopped -- and if he wasn't certain (if at a bout with video) he could call for replay.

Point being: rule should be -- In case of a cut that does not require a recovery period for accidental foul, the referee shall indicate cut or punch on a scorecard and hand to the commission representative at the close of the round during which the cut occurs. If the bout is stopped because of the cut, the referee shall then disclose his ruling. Upon application of the referee, or either corner, video tape replay, if available, may be consulted.

I could live with a "referee makes all determinations and that is final" only if Ron refereed every bout -- but since he doesn't I like my rule.

[Ron Lipton]

Under my version of "perfect world" you wouldn't need to call a time out.

If the bout was stopped for the cut, only then would you need to review to determine if a punch or butt.

Reply: When a cut occurrs, if the referee is doing his vigilant job he is supposed to determine immeidately and tell everyone if the punch was legal which caused the cut or if it was a clash of heads. If the bout then has to be stopped due to the cut, the referee if doing his job correctly would have already ruled if that cut was caused by an unintentional or intentional clash of heads or a legal punch. This would determine whether it is a TKO or a DQ of course.

As to the replay, it would be moot if the referees ruling has already been made unless the commission decided to step in and reverse the ruling already made my the referee, whether correct or in error based on the tape.

That would also take out of the equation guys claiming they "can't see" when the referee rules a butt -- in my scenario, the referee wouldn't tell until after the bout needed to be stopped -- and if he wasn't certain (if at a bout with video) he could call for replay.

Reply: The referee needs to make an immediate ruling, the sooner the better, loud, clear and decisive as to the cause of the cut, clearly stating "Unintentional or Intentional head butt, or legal punch." The judges must hear this ruling as do the fighters, cornermen , fans and commentators so there is no misconception right away as to the cause. If the referee waits until after the bout is stopped it would open up too much room for controversy. The rulling must be made immediately.

Point being: rule should be -- In case of a cut that does not require a recovery period for accidental foul, the referee shall indicate cut or punch on a scorecard and hand to the commission representative at the close of the round during which the cut occurs.

Reply: I respectfully submit, the ruling must be made immediately, out loud, so that all can hear and the judges then do what they have to based on the referees immediate ruling which all can hear and understand. Waiting until the round is over opens up too many problems for protest.


If the bout is stopped because of the cut, the referee shall then disclose his ruling. Upon application of the referee, or either corner, video tape replay, if available, may be consulted.

Reply: The referee must be able to make his ruling immediately based on being in the right place in that ring. If he does not know then and there it is understandable to turn to the Commissioner who probably if he is good, say to the referee, "It is your ruling." I agree that then the referee could ask for the replay.

I could live with a "referee makes all determinations and that is final" only if Ron refereed every bout -- but since he doesn't I like my rule.

Reply: Thanks Mike, I understand the refs miss things in there and nothing is wrong with the replay being done at ringside immediately if the refs rulling is wrong and then bringing it to his attention so that no one gets an unfair advantage.