Originally Posted by Off The River
Originally Posted by Off The River
As will I. Of course the Grey Eagle was the greatest. :>)Originally Posted by TKO11
Played so shallow a center that he was making unassisted DP's at second.
Many great swings, many strange ones.
Paul Molitor: that compact cut which exerted a minimum of energy was a major reason his career continued until his 40's.
George Brett: a product of (as were many Royals at that time) of the Charlie Lau school of hitting: lay bat back on shoulder, try to get as far back of the batter's box as you can before the ump warns you, etc...
Manny: A NY Times sportswriter once called it a ''tension free power swing"
Sheffield: reminds me of an impatient speed-freak (but he's got those Aaron wrists!)
How about open vs. closed stances?
The most open and comical I've ever seen was that of former Tiger's second baseman Dick McAuliffe. Bat high over his head, he was turned completely outward facing the pitcher at delivery. It always cracked us up as kids.
This is impressive stuff for sure. The only person I would argue with is Hank Greenberg and I would argue as follows:Originally Posted by TKO11
"Name a better right handed hitter", Rogers Hornsby. Perhaps Jimmie Foxx and Harry Heilmann as well.
"or a better thrower", Roberto Clemente
"or a better fielder", Tris Speaker. Honus Wagner
"or a better base runner". Ty Cobb
Hey Surf - what you just posted made my entire point. There are a couple of guys that you could argue were better than Joe at every individual thing - a couple who may have been better fielders, or one or two who might have been better right handed hitters, or better baserunners.... but those guys all show up on one of those lists. Joe shows up on all of thsoe lists. THAT is why he was IMO the best all around player ever - he had it all.
Last edited by TKO11; 05-29-2009 at 03:11 PM.
I would say that Hornsby might be the ONLY rightie better than Joe...
Great knowing that baseball is right up there with boxing as as a fav sport...
Circa 1961? My childhood heroes? Floyd (of course) Mantle, Oscar, Jim Brown, Emile, the Yankees!, The Browns!
Last edited by Counter Jab; 05-29-2009 at 04:51 PM.
Hi Counter. Yes, baseball has always been with boxing for me. I was born in January 1970, so when I was growing up my biggest heroes were Reggie, Brett and Nolan Ryan. My mother tells me (though I don't recall - I was 9) that I cried all day when Thurman Munson died. And you've never seen a bigger fan of the Jays from 1982 through 1993 - I didn't see every game, but I saw a ton of them, and memorized the boxscores the next day. To this day when people ask me who my favorite third baseman was I still say Gance Mulliniorg (and I usually get the blankest stare). Loved those teams....
Who was the first Blue Jay to hit for the cycle? Hint: he played 3rd base.
Aw, come on OTR, firsts are always too easy. Kelly G, he of the one incredible season.
I thought he was going on to be one of the best ever.
Well.... Best Blue Jay 3rd basemen that is...
Last edited by Off The River; 05-31-2009 at 07:58 PM.
I love Eddie Murray swing, But the best IMO is Ken Griffey jr. I would like to ask a question without starting a new thread. The WBC Korea vs Japan. Runners on 2nd and 3rd 2 outs first base open. Would you have pitch to Ichiro? I was rooting for Korea. I was screaming at the TV. Why are they pitching to him?
I said the same thing MrBig. It was all a pride thing. Living in Korea and being married to a Korean, I am a huge Korean Baseball fan. The baseball over here is excellent: Tight defense, unselfish play and usually very smart management.
I could'nt believe it when they pitched to Ichiro. Another thing that troubled me was when they hauled the Ryu, their young southpaw. This kid throws about 95 miles and hour and doesn't tire. They brought him in from the bullpen and should have left him in to face Ichiro. He was awesome in the olympics and won 20 games last year.
Koreans have a huge amount of national pride and deep seeded resentment towards Japan because of past colonialisim and hundreds of years of invasions; rather than do the smart thing and walk Japan's national icon, they pitched to him.
The ball over here is something else. It costs about seven bucks to get in a game with no assigned seating. My team, the Incheon Wyverns, play in a world class stadium and even during playoffs tickets are under twenty bucks. Booze and snaks, put them in a cooler and bring them in.
The second baseman -Jeong Keun Woo-for the Wyverns right now is as good a player as you'll find anywhere. Great defensively and he's batting over .400 right now.
Last edited by Off The River; 05-31-2009 at 10:12 PM.
Didn't Jays 3B Roy Howell (when the early Jays still stunk) have an 11 RBI game?Originally Posted by TKO11
That one I had to look up counter. I knew when he left the Jays he was the all-time team leader in several offensive categories (not saying much, since they were an expansion team that sucked horribly their first half-dozen years), but I hadn't heard of an 11 RBI game. After looking around, it looks like it was a 9 RBI game against Catfish and the Yankees in 1977. I remember reading a quote from Reggie saying that the Yankee played horribly and that there was never an excuse to lose to Toronto, let alone to get hammered like they did in that game.
I lived in Korea as well. There was no pro baseball when I was there. The Korean manager tried to throw his pitcher under the bus by saying he gave the sign to walk Ichiro. That's hard to believe since it was a 8 pitch at bat. I also loved Korean boxing. Became a big fan and still am.Originally Posted by Off The River
Let me give you guys some unbelievable stats. Joe Dimaggio nearly had as many career home runs and he has career strike outs. 361 career home runs 369 career K's. Stan the man had 3,630 career hits. 1,815 hits at home and 1,815 hits on the road. Hank Aaron said if Stan played at Yankee stadium he would have hit at least 600 home runs. Ichiro had 261 hits in a season a record that stood for over 70 years. He also has 8 straight seasons with 200 hits. a record that goes back to the 19th century. Ty Cobb and Rete Rose never did that. He also could go in the Japan and America baseball halls of fame.
Cobb hit over .300 for 23 consecutive years.
THAT is a stat.
As for swings, lefty swings so many love and speak of are usually pull-uppercuting swings to take advantage of shorter porches and the fact they and any hitter, faces a majority of right-hand pitching.
That being said, Lou Piniella had a very nice swing... almost Sweet.
Cobb's stats are unbelievable. Nobody can touch them in most departments. In fact I hear they were so unreal that back in the 80s a team of scholars did a reassessment of his career, poring over miles of old papers, box scores, etc. Checking Ty's stats just to make sure they were accurate.Originally Posted by Sharkey
Ty Cobb actually went into the hall of fame with more votes than Babe Ruth. The guys who voted had the chance to see both of them play. I think that says something.
There are several Jamesian numbers (and related digit crunches) which bear out Cobb's almost singular excellence.
Relative scarcity due to particular position aside, Cobb, IMO outstrips many more-often argued choices for 'best player'.
In a room of folks divided in Aaron or Mays camps for best player... and in the other corner Williams humps were trumpeting their selection of Ted as best hitter... I'd gladly not converse or argue with anyone as I'd be taking Cobb for either... unless I can have that Ruth guy pitch relief AND hit full-time.
I'm watching Josh Beckett one hit the Yankees in the 6th. oh happy day.
of the guys ive been able to see a lot of film on:
-ted williams- science meets poetry. his fluidity and weight distribution were perfect. amazing power stats for a guy who didnt weigh that much 190-205lb at 6'3".
-joe dimaggio I felt even maximized weight to power moreso then williams if that was possible. 6'2" 192LB.. fluid to say the least.
-frank robinson. very efficient compact swing. major forearm strength wh/ allowed such power with less range of motion.
-mantle-when he was in his prime the most effectively explosive power i've seen. not as pretty as joe or ted, but savagely beautiful.
-reggie jackson- no doubt a ham & not as consistent as those above. but wow what a flare for drama. his swing fit that note pitch perfect. when he fully connected the hype and histronic max swing motion fit the bill.
-ty cobb. just basing it simply on #'s. he wasnt a slap hitter either like rose or carew. there is some footage though of him. check this link, it's his actual views and has some pretty sharp footage of his swing. sweet base runner also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4y9ml7VhlY
-honorable mention- david justice. I know he never lived up to his potential so he cant be ranked w/ the guys above. but just for a very smooth and beautifully fluid swing to watch, I always thought he had it.
Last edited by HandToMouth; 06-09-2009 at 11:02 PM.
Here's a baseball (or sports FTM) trivia question posed to me by my sports-bar Korean War vet buddy who's a huge boxing/baseball historian.
What's the one record in all of sports that will never be BROKEN (barring an absolute miracle)?
A: Johnny Vander Meer's back-to-back no hitters!
(actually I think big Johnny was 6-7 innings of no-hit ball deep in that third start before surrendering a hit)
Here's another one for you...
Who are the ONLY two baseball players who hit major league home runs as teenagers AND as post-40 yr. old players?
Clue: Their last names rhyme and they both had 'colorful' nicknames.
Didn't Willie Mays hit homers as a teenager and as a post-40 player?
Vandermeer's 'record' was almost tied in 1988 (I think) by my all-time favorite pitcher, Dave Stieb. He had no hitters broken up with 2 out in the ninth in back-to-back starts.
I don't think that's a trivia question. It's only a matter of opinion, with anyone's guess being an acceptable right answer!Originally Posted by Counter Jab
For one thing, it is surely possible that Vander Meer's feat can happen again, it's not like the rules have changed and made it impossible.
Here's one that will likely never be broken: the men's 4 x 110 yards track relay record held by the 1967 USC sprint relay team (including O.J. Simpson as one of the runners, Earl McCullough another). That event is no longer run, to my knowledge, with the 4 x 100 meters as the standard for many years now.
No; and, remember, the Say Hey Kid is not a very 'colorful' nickname.Originally Posted by TKO11
Hint: being from Canada might give you a heads up here T...
Michael, with all due respect, why do your posts/rebuttals often seem to be so caustic and confrontational?Originally Posted by Michael Frank
I don't think it was either, sorry if I offended. I didn't mean to. I was disagreeing, which I thought we are allowed to do.Originally Posted by Counter Jab
I give, Please tell me I'm dying to know.Originally Posted by Counter Jab
I don't know what either of them have to do with Canada, but I KNOW Ty Cobb did it. My other guess (which I am 99% on) is Gary Sheffield. Even though it doesn't rhyme with Cobb.
Then again, I was pretty sure about Mays. So I looked him up and found he wasn't called up to the bigs until 19 days after his 20th birthday. So I was wrong there.....