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Thread: Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

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    Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

    No, not all a once.

    Mooch is one of my favorite fighters of all time and I might not be the most IMPARTIAL judge of where he belongs and how he fares against fellow Welterweight champions of the past.

    Looking beyond his over confidence (arrogance?) and his habit of clowning too much and not being busy enough is something I KNOW I am guilty of. And it IS these traits of his that I know why he doesn’t get as much historical respect as he probably should have gotten.

    I think the trio I have him pared up against here should provide a nice gauge as to where he fits in the history of the Welterweight division and I also think the matchups should prove to be entertaining and intriguing.

    To ME, there are no knee jerk obvious calls here.

    I think the most difficult matchup for Stomp is Curtis Cokes, but it is one that I also see as a fight I would take Starling in via 15 round close Unanimous or Split decision. My biggest fear with Marlon in this fight, is his gas in the championship rounds. He faded pretty decisively against Curry in making a close bout through 12 a pretty clean win over 15.

    Conversely, Cokes proved in stopping Rodriguez in 15, what he had late in a championship bout. And certainly, that win on Cokes’ record, trumps anything Mooch had on his.

    I do think Marlon’s defense will cause Cokes fits and this is a bout that if Marlon remains consistently active, he can build enough of a lead to allow himself to coast down the stretch and pull out a tough tactical win.

    Paret was probably as inconsistent as Starling was. Had he carried a bigger punch with him, I think he could command more of Marlon’s respect and kept Mooch’s offense in the closet. As it was, I’d take Starling to take it to Paret in the later rounds and possibly stop him around the 11th or 12th. Should Paret, make it through that, I see Marlon holding on to a rather clear 15 round decision win.

    Starling Quartey is a nice matchup of headcases. Quartey is busy with his jab, but if Starling shuts it down with his defense and I think he does, I think Marlon can end up dominating this bout, reducing Quartey to a one dimensional fighter.

    My biggest concern with Starling in this fight is his focus and interest. Ike has some pretty good pop and if he catches Marlon clowning or zoneing out, he can make him pay.

    Ultimately, I see this as the easiest of the three fights for Marlon who I again, take to win a decision that isn’t particularly debatable.

    Now, everyone can call me biased and point out the fallacies of my arguments.

    Hawk

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    Re: Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

    Curis Cokes: Marlon would have given him hell but Curtis is a VASTLY underrated fighter these days. If it's a 15 rounder definitely Cokes by decision but in a very tough fight.

    Benny Paret: Benny was one tough guy. He also had very fast hands & enough power to command respect. Again, Staring in a 15 rounder bothers me. That & the clowning around would PROBABLY, not certainly give him a decision loss.

    Ike Quartey: I'm gonna presume it's a 12 rounder. This is a very tough call. I've always really liked Starling & when he was focused he was a fabulous, exciting, fighter. But he screwed around too much which emphasisis Marlon's lack of dicipline or having much of a grip on reality.

    Grudgingly I have to give this one on points to Quartey. Quarty while he could be slow & methodical was a VERY focused fighter. He was also stronger than the chairs in Refrigirator Perry's house.

    I do feel Quartey would grind it out.

    Now none of this is to disparage Starling. He was a real fave of mine & fun to watch. At his best he was one helluva fighter. The problem was that being at his "best" on a consistent level was problematical for him.

    Anyone know how Marlon is doing these days?

    GorDoom

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    Gor

    No issues with your calls.

    I do think these are all tough matches, which is why I chose them.

    And I concur WHOLLY on the Cokes point.

    Hawk

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    Re: Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

    Marlon seems to be doing fine -- I saw him at the Hall of Fame this weekend and we spoke for about 20 minutes. Real nice guy (my dad also spoke to him and was impressed). I asked for an autograph and he wanted $10 and gave me a good looking personalized signed pic and signed a glove for me as well (I figure if the fighter asks for a few bucks I am cool with that). Talked about all his big fights and about the loss to Blocker and that weird one to Molinares-- very honest and open. One of the highlights of the weekend. :-)

    -Peter

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    Awesome to hear that Peter

    Thanks for Sharing.

    I'm very envious.

    HOF induction weekend seems to be in cahoots with my Daughter's Dance school as her dance recital was again the same weekend.

    Just one more comment about the matchups; I still feel most confident about the matchup agianst Quartey, mostly becuase I feel HIS inconsistancy matched Mooch's.

    I do like Gor's comment re Marlon's "having much of a grip on reality". As it pertained to his professional boxing career, as much of a fan as I am of Marlon's, that comment does seem to fit him like a glove.

    Hawk

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    Re: Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

    Ever since you posted this thread on Starling he's been on my mind. & in thinking about him I think I've come up with the perfect comparison to him an athlete who was supremely talented but as wacky as wombat on nitrous oxide: The one & only, Ricky Henderson!

    Marlon is the Ricky Henderson of boxing. Both of them have only a passing acquaintance with reality ...

    GorDoom
    P.S. I can't wait to hear Ricky's induction speech into the Baseball HOF. It's gonna be priceless!

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    Two Ultimate

    Hot Dogs as well.

    Excellent comparison.

    Hawk

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    Re: Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

    Nice thread!

    Well, lets see...

    I think I'd rank Curtis Cokes slightly ahead of Mooch as a fighter, but head to head I can see Starling edging this one.

    Cokes was a pin point puncher, had a great long jab and a very straight right hand down the pipe. He had good stamina too, keeping his precision and work rate into the later rounds.

    But ultimately I think a few of Cokes' losses are telling with regard to this fight. The first loss I speak of is to the unorthodox cutey Gypsy Joe Harris. Cokes couldn't figure him out. He complained later "I couldn't jab him. He don't have a style. He just stands there and acts the monkey. I hit him a few times, but he'd just wobble and come back. He's a tough kid."

    Sound familiar? Starling was great at parrying jabs, and thrived on standing in front of his man and not letting him hit him with anything. (He also of course thrived on acting the monkey ). Gypsy Joe was more a Montell Griffin type spoiler/defensive fighter, but Starling, though more orthodox with his defense, can prove just as difficult to get off on (as good jab/right hand punchers like Breland, Brown and even Curry found out) when he covers up and plays with angles.

    The other fight that seems relevant to me is Curtis Cokes' narrow loss to Jose Stable. Cokes hurt Stable several times throughout the fight, but he didn't dissuade the Cuban from getting on the inside and launching flurries to the body and head, thwarting the rangy Cokes.

    Starling is a very compact, strong fighter, and he is a very good operator on the inside. If he can find himself there, and in so doing take away Cokes' rangy punching ability, he will be in a very comfortable position. He will have to pay a price to get in, as Stable did himself, and Jose probably wouldn't have survived if it was a 15 round affair, but with Starling's strength and ability to defend himself whilst moving forward, he should enjoy plenty of good moments in his office (the inside) and pile up enough points to take it by a bee's d.


    Against Paret again I see a close fight and I can see some judges giving it to Paret because he will be throwing non-stop for 15 rounds, but I think an educated judge, who actually looks at what is landing and what isn't should score this for Mooch. This will be similar to the Winky Wright - Harry Simon fight - a fight I had Winky edging - and Starling's accuracy should be enough to outpoint the wailing, perpetual motion of Paret.


    Against Ike Quartey, again it's going to be close (broken record here). They mirror each other in some respects in that they are both high guard fighters, both are strong, both like to use the jab and both have a tendency to occasionally go AWOL in the later stages of fights.

    I see Ike having the advantage with the jab and right hand, Starling the advantage with the in-fighting and defense. What wins out? I'm a defense man, and I'll back the better defensive guy, in this case Starling, to get the job done, but only just.

    So there you have it, a clean sweep for Marlon, but I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the fights going the other way.

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    Re: Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

    Sweet Scientist wrote:

    "So there you have it, a clean sweep for Marlon, but I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the fights going the other way."

    I couldn't agree more - & my picks were completely opposite of yours. These are all close bouts, no walkovers, outcomes really in the air.

    Hawk picked 3 really tough matchups. Good job.

    GorDoom

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    Re: Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

    Good job indeed Gor.

    I can definitely see the fights panning out the way you and Hawk describe them, even though I sit somewhere in the middle between your views.

    Very hard bouts to definitively call.

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    Re: Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

    Quote Originally Posted by GorDoom
    as wacky as a wombat on nitrous oxide
    Love it!

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    Classic Wombat Quotes

    "I wasn't knocked out, I wasn't knocked DOWN!"

    "I'll fight him for free, as long as the money is right."

    Hawk

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    Re: Marlon Starling vs. Curtis Cokes, Benny Kid Paret and Ike Quartey

    Both of these are good fights. Yet, I will go with Cokes by decision over Starling, and Benny Paret by late ko over Quartey. Cokes vs. Donald Curry would be a good one too. You have Dallas vs. Fort Worth.

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    Sr

    I actually was going with Starling vs. all three, but certainly Paret vs Quartey is a nice matchup as well. (Taking Paret via decision.)

    And Curry Cokes would have been awesome as well.

    Hawk

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