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Thread: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

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    Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    I will refrain from commenting on this supposed "lineal heavyweight championship fight". Suffice it to say that Adam Pollack will cover it for us & give us his usual outstandingly detailed coverage.

    Per usual, please keep all discussion of this bout to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.

    thanks,

    GorDoom

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    1 - Not much to report. VK using his very cautious outside style, powering in hard jabs and alternating with light range maintaining pawing jabs. When RC tries to get in, VK just steps back or grabs. RC soon discouraged from trying to step forward. Very cautious on both sides. RC maintains good guard and seems quick and frisky, but has no idea how to get in. VK just so tall, long, and powerful, and will not allow any up close exchange. VK just keeps pawing and firing that jab to discourage RC, and is great at stepping, leaning back and grabbing heaven forbid RC might try to engage him.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    2 - VK snapping off jabs. RC gets hit with several. RC good guard and head movement, but way out at range like that VK can hit him and he can't hit VK. VK is the master of the cautious slowpaced but powerful outside style. Every time RC tries to land he falls short. VK snaps off a straight right that decks RC. RC gets up and seems okay, but this does not augur well for him. RC is allowing VK the distance and tempo he likes. VK goes right back to the same old thing. No urgency whatsoever.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    3 - Both pick it up. RC seems to realize he has to do something. He tries to attack, but then backs off again. He is just confused as to what to do. There he steps in again. But he's eating some nice crisp snapping jabs. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Boy does VK have a lot of power. Another really solid VK right lands. RC just keeps getting hit whether he remains far away and backs, or tries to press in. VK in total control. RC's best chance to win would be to come forward nonstop, but VK discourages and chills him out with his power and ability to step away. Another 1-2 combo lands for VK. RC is befuddled. VK relaxed confident and in control. RC can barely land, and what few he landed this round were grazing or barely landed because VK has his distance and timing down pat.
    Last edited by apollack; 06-20-2009 at 05:54 PM.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    4 - This is just a slow methodical gradual beatdown. I would rather go out quick trying super hard than to just let the other guy be in total control and gradually beat me to a vulnerable pulp. But VK is long, quick, and very powerful, so I understand RC's caution. RC is trying to slide in a little, but VK just able to time him and snap off light and hard shots and move about. He just isn't being pressed enough. RC is taking some nice shots and his eyes seem focused, but on what, I don't know. He looks like he's trying to set something up, but I'm not seeing it. He looks alert with a high guard and moving his head, but barely punches.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    RC's corner needs to tell him he needs to change the game plan. He isn't forcing the pace enough, nor is he controling the distance. VK has become a master of this style, I'll give him that.

    5 - VK pepering, uses stiff arm, peppers again with those jabs, then snaps one off. Then a right lead. Now a very crisp 1-2 combo that snaps RC's head. RC backs away, VK approaches with the same caution. Does same style. Then backs away. A very measured attack. I suppose VK can get away with this style because of his immense reach, speed, and power. At times he seems slow, but then he rockets off something that let's you know to watch out. He's so heavy handed. Another dull round with VK in total control. RC is more like a sparring partner in there. VK content to just be in control and put rounds in the bag without trying to do anything special.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    6 - VK boxing him, then stops and rips off some jab-right combos that miss. That's all he does. Jab, jab jab, slight move back away, occasionally fire off a hard jab, occasionally fire off a hard jab-right. RC just plays defense with little footwork, a bit of head movement, and a slow approach. RC barely throws, mostly misses what he does throw. There is no passion in there whatsoever. Where's the hunger from RC? He's just going through the motions. Maybe he's just hoping to store up energy and to late in the fight pour it on. If true, he's a genius if it works. If not, then I think he's just a dog who is barely trying and content to go the distance without getting knocked out, and pick up his paycheck.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    7 - You tend to find out about a fighter's heart when he gets in there with a guy who can really crack. RC right now is like a guy who does not believe he can win, and he isn't going to risk getting hurt in order to win. VK just doing his thing. Not a whole lot of punches, just maintaining the range. peppering, touching, moving a bit, then firing off some tester missles once in a while. VK not forcing the pace. VK alert though and looking for his moment to try something. Wow finally RC actually tried to hit him and sent VK back to the ropes and may have landed a grazing left before being held. Back to the ring center again and same old same old. RC hits VK way after the bell with a left, his only clean land of the fight. Well, his frustration is coming out, but at least the guy showed that he had a pulse there.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    8 - VK rips off a 1-2 that had it not been blocked could have been devastating. VK is like a pitcher who gives you some slow change ups and then fires in a 99 mph fastball. RC is so afraid of those fastballs that even the slow light change ups keep him chilled. VK boxes about, maintaining range. RC approaches so slowly that VK can move comfortably and at the pace he likes. A big mistake by RC. RC has a cut on his left eye. Not bleeding too bad though. Another ho hum round for VK. No need to score this one. It's all VK.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    9 - VK rips off nice jabs that jolt RC's head. A nice right gets through too. VK standing his ground and even stepping forward as RC backs, not wanting to get hit too much. VK snapping off those jabs. VK putting it out there more now. VK tests him, backs off, tests again. RC lunges with a left that VK easily steps back away from. VK approaches again and rips off some but RC's guard and headmovement saves him, but RC is backing and on ropes. He's so defensive now that VK's confidence is soaring. VK sensing that he can push it a bit. Big right causes RC to bound back into ropes. Another right. VK really ripping them now. RC maintains composure and saved by bell. RC can take it, but with the type of power VK generates, there is only so long that you can keep getting hit with these crisp shots.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    They have stopped the fight in the corner. I think RC's cornermen stopped it. Another virtuoso shutout performance.

    Bottom line is that the only type of guy who can even remotely compete with VK is someone with enough height and reach to hit him from way out, or with enough speed and ferocity or condition and nonstop determination to attack and put it on him. These cautious types have no hope whatsoever.
    Last edited by apollack; 06-20-2009 at 05:50 PM.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Now they are saying the referee stopped it. No matter.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Bullshit fight with bullshit fighters....

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    What fight? VK's bouts are just performances, not even competition. These heavyweights today either have no conditioning or no heart. I'll say this for VK, he's become a really dominant heavyweight. But that's not saying much in a very weak era.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    VK did what he did, even if the ref stop it or not, Chagaev was relly getting beat up in there. I think Chagaev had a round or more to go before he got ko.

    I would not called it a BS stoppage. Chagaev was pretty much done.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Agreed.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    HBO must be hitting themselves for passing up on this classic

    Wlad's career was summed up in the last round. He had Chagaev bloody, hurt and against the ropes. Had landed several hard right hands. Chagaev throws a right jab in retaliation and Wlad LEAPS backwards to avoid the shot.

    Wlad's extreme caution would leave him open for a Tate-Weaver moment vs a guy with more guts and punch than the tubby Chagaev.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Vlad is a guy who over the years has gotten better primarily because he recognizes his weaknesses. He has learned that he has no chin, no inside game, and no stamina at a fast pace. Hence, he has developed a style to keep the fight outside and at a slow pace, and not to put himself in harm's way at all, and it works for him.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Quote Originally Posted by kikibalt
    Bullshit fight with bullshit fighters....

    LOL!!!

    I love ya Frank! :

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Quote Originally Posted by apollack
    Vlad is a guy who over the years has gotten better primarily because he recognizes his weaknesses. He has learned that he has no chin, no inside game, and no stamina at a fast pace. Hence, he has developed a style to keep the fight outside and at a slow pace, and not to put himself in harm's way at all, and it works for him.

    Evey one wants Wlad to take risk, but I feel Wlad knows if he gets caught with a good punch, he might get knock down or taken out. Sure his style may be boring. But he has been winning the last 7 years or so, and has relly rule the divison.

    As you say, he KNOWS his weakness and covers em, ie no taking risk.
    The style has work for him, and outside of greats of the past and his brother, there is relly no one out there NOW that can take him imo.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    King of the worst era in heavyweight history. I don't really care that Chagaev was #3 (what does that even mean these days?), he never had a chance in hell of doing anything. If that is Wlad's "best opponent", that says a lot.

    Put him in there with a non-slob who has some offensive talent so we can put an end to this crap.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Adam summed it up ... However, the controled Wlad is a very tough match up for most because of his size and his strengths ... Not exciting but very dominate ...

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Quote Originally Posted by evander
    LOL!!!

    I love ya Frank! :
    Thanks Rene.....

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    It was reported that 61,000 people turned out to see Little Klit-Chagaev at a soccer stadium. I myself cannot understand how anyone can pay good money to see the current crop of heavyweights in action.

    - Chuck Johnston

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck1052
    It was reported that 61,000 people turned out to see Little Klit-Chagaev at a soccer stadium. I myself cannot understand how anyone can pay good money to see the current crop of heavyweights in action.

    - Chuck Johnston

    Maybe they thought there was actually gonna be a soccer game?

    The only way to beat Vlad, Wlad, VK, WK, L'il Klit...or, as I like to refer to him, "6-6 1/2? I Didn't Know They Could Stack Shit That High.", is to knock him out. You can't hope to out-box him, out-muscle him or out-smart him; too powerful, too smart (definitely knows how to hide his Achilles Heel) for most. Nope, you've just got to get by that telephone pole-like jab and go for broke against that chin made in Dresden.

    In the meanwhile we will have to struggle to stay awake as he methodically wears down and TKO's these hapless heavies of today.

    On the UPSIDE, Chagaev still holds the vaunted WBA version of the HW title! Can't wait for his next defense. Maybe they can broadcast it on the Game Show Network or something.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Do guys really think Tubbs, Witherspoon, Berbick, Smith, etc would have beaten this guy? Chagaev fought the only way he could and that was not at all. Vlad has mastered a certain style and like Monzon he has mastered distance. It looks like the other guy isnt trying, but they know if they move forward they risk that jab and straight right, adding to its power. Trying to hook with this guy, as he is today is damm near immpossible. Clinching is what he has learned ala Ali and hes so strong its hard to shake him loose and work. Like Lennox Lewis ya gotta reach his chin, but one thing I notice is that Vlad is moving very very well and for 240 lbs he moves damm well and fast. That he is now in condition and less muscle bound also adds to his ability. The guy has got better and although the divison is weak 60,000 fans, well dressed and behaved with money in their pockets were interested. Can't wait to see him with Haye who hopefully but probably not successfully take some chances.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Oh to of had David Haye in there swinging.

    Wlad looked delicate & ready to fold at any point, but Chags was actually worse than I ragimov. I hope he never fights again, and uses his payday to defile plenty Eastern Euro hookers.

    Hey ho, ho hum.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Ruslan did better than Ibragimov and this was a better fight. It's not saying much, but Ruslan at least came forward and tried. He never just sort of ran for the distance.

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    First of all, wow, what a horrible shit fight, absolutely uninteresting and boring,

    I don't think I've ever seen a Heavyweight Championship fight in which the challenger does not land a single punch of consequence (unless you count the punch after the bell in round 6 or 7 that was Chagaev's best of the night and a pretty solid blow) in the entire fight,

    Wlad is boring, lacks killer instinct, mechanical, bla bla bla, all the stuff everyone's been saying for years, and I certainly am no fan, but in this fight, it wasn't so simple to just say that Chagaev has no heart and fought a terrible fight, regardless of what anyone says in retrospect after the fact, Ruslan was/is a very solid top 5 heavyweight. a ton of credit has to go to Wlad for making Ruslan look that way, even if it isn't fan friendly to watch, he fights top guys and he wins, Mayweather runs and slaps, avoids top fighters in the divisions he fights at, is safety first, and was considered the best in the world pound for pound,

    Wlad should get his due, even if the journey is ugly, the end result the 'W' is the most important thing and it takes two to do this thing called boxing, Wlad may have all of the flaws a fighter could have but if his opponents can't expose these flaws, then they are a non factor,


    with all that said, what a boring one sided flogging, after about 3 rounds what struck me was that unlike past Wlad opponents who can't really get inside or hit Wlad cleanly, at least they were getting close enough to make Wlad hold on and clinch, Chagaev couldn't even close enough to get into a clinch, he wasn't moving to his right to avoid the Klitschko jab, he wasn't going to Wlad's body,

    and even if Wlad had gone for a Kayo in the late rounds, big deal, it would have still been an unsatisfying end to a boring fight, it looked like Wlad was really surprised at how easy it was, and didn't appear to tire in the later rounds although I doubt Ruslan could have taken advantage,

    garbage,

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    Re: Lil' Klit-Chagaev Results & Discussion June/20/09

    Little Klits is a boring fighter, but he isn't no. 1 on my all-time list in that category. In my opinion, John Ruiz is in a class by himself as the most boring fighter ever. Of course, I felt that Ruiz should have been disqualified each time he was in the ring because of his "a single jab and then fall into a clinch"
    fighting style.

    - Chuck Johnston

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