[Previous entry: "It's Official: Trinidad Is Coming Back, at Middleweight"] [Main Index] [Next entry: "Cory Spinks - New Lineal Welterweight Champion"]
12/15/2003 Archived Entry: "Gym Wars"
Gym Wars
By "Ice" John Scully
Vinny Paz is another guy who destroys that old fable that Philadelphia has the best gym wars. You hear all the so called boxing experts, especially the Philly fighters, repeatedly talk up the legendary 'Philly sparring sessions', like they somehow box with more intensity within the city limits of Philadelphia. That's nonsense, seriously. I have been to Vinny's Gym in Providence many time and this guy loves the hard sparring.
The first time we sparred was in 1991 and we were both getting ready for fights. I was fighting a real cagey veteran named Randy Smith and just 4 days later Vinny was boxing Gilbert Dele for the WBA Junior Middleweight title. The first time we sparred I don't think Vinny even knew who I was or had heard of me. He said we could do 4 rounds. Fighters have a way of talking to each other that only they understand. Almost always after a round, the two boxers will touch gloves. Kind of a little tap. But Vinny and I were both throwing punches so hard and fast, every time the bell would ring we would both do the same exact thing: stop quickly, as if we were slamming on the brakes, look at each other for a couple moments, then bang gloves with each other real hard.
I am sure, from the body language that he was thinking the same exact thing I was - " I wish that round didn't end." After the 4th round he was like 'oh,man, you think you can go a couple more? I was thinking "man, this is what I live for." After that day, I used to go to him very often and the sparring was always fun. Vinny was the type of guy, if you were catching him with good shots he would bang his face with his gloves and yell 'Yeah! come On! He was not a terribly hard puncher, in the truest sense. But his overhand right, like the one he caught Dana Rosenblatt with, was an attention-getter if it got through.
I think his left hook to the body was his best and most effective punch overall. Also, another thing many fans don't realize about Paz was that he could box when he really wanted to. Usually he loved to really get into it and just trade big shots. But when he decided to use his legs and use the ring he could move very well and jump in with nice quick shots. If you have never seen the WBA 154 pound championship fight he had in 1991 with Gilbert Dele you should order it at some point. That was a beautiful display of BOXING. As for us, we sparred so many rounds I lost count. I sparred with him quite a bit between 1991 and 1995. If I could name a few guys that I would love to spar with still on a regular basis, Vinny Paz would be right there near the top of the list.
Sometimes you end up using sparring as a way of establishing yourself in the eyes of other boxers. Sometimes sparring can get tedious and then something will happen and all of a sudden you still get juiced up mentally and physically enough that it turns into something more than just every day sparring. Sometimes you might get a guy that takes the sparring a little too seriously. There is a kid here in Connecticut that I have sparred with a few times. An amateur 201 pounder, about 23 years old or so. A local amateur kid, not a national level kid or a guy you would have ever heard of. One time we sparred at my gym in Hartford for 4 pretty much uneventful rounds. A few days later a friend of mine asked me if I sparred with this kid the other day? I said 'yes' and he said 'Yeah, because he was at my gym saying he DOMINATED you'. That kind of thing is irritating.
If I spar with a good guy and we are going at it and it is serious sparring and he says "Yeah, I did good with Ice," then I have no problem. But when some amateur kid comes in and I do him a favor by working with him for a few rounds and then he starts talking stuff about it, that really gets to you. It's as if he saying "we're on the same." Well, that is not cool. There is certain etiquette I like to follow. It is times like that when I want to say "Oh, you wanna talkabout what you did? How about we get to the gym one day and go at it for 10 rounds with no headgear?" Since that day, I have sparred with this kid 4 more times. Stopped him 5 times. Three times with body shots and twice with head shots. The last time, I hit him with such a vicious double hook to the body that if he didn't go down I would have been shocked. Now, it is not any kind of notch in my belt to say I stopped this guy so bad that he lost all the air in his body and his trainer had to come in the ring and get him up on all fours so he could try to regain his composure. Stopping him these times, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean much because I am a pro and he is an amateur. He is bigger than me, a strong kid that trains well to fight. But still, stopping him like that is not a big deal. For him, it will just go under the heading of 'A Lesson learned.'
What you have to understand is, in the gyms, boxers take all aspects of the sparring very seriously. Having a guy spout off about how he did this or that to you in the gym is an open invitation to go to war every time from then on out that we spar.
There was another time that I was getting ready to fight Art Baylis at Foxwoods Casino in a 10 round fight. I was really physically worn down from all the intense training and on my last day of sparring I worked with two good amateurs, a 156-pounder and a 178-pounder. The way I was feeling that day, the 156-pounder was too fast for me and the 178 was too strong. He manhandled me and pushed me all over the ring. I didn't panic though because I knew I had been working hard and my body was ready to be rested for my fight. I rested up for the next few days and fought the fight, winning a 10 round decision. I Looked as good as I ever had as a pro. Now, in the weeks after the fight, I begin hearing how this amateur light heavyweight was pushing me around, banging me up etc. Apparently his trainer was one of these guys that has boxers and when they had a good day in the gym they made sure everybody knew about it.
Apparently, from what I was hearing, they had all of a sudden decided to have this kid get ready to turn pro. I assume that because he did real well sparring with me that day and because he was a strong and rugged kid they figured he was pro material. So I requested that they come back to the gym and spar again. The next time we sparred I took it very seriously and I made sure to rest up the night before. The sparring started and I came out with what Cus D'Amato called bad intentions. I was very focused on doing damage and what I remember was finding a home for my right uppercut. At one point in the second round I hit this kid so hard with an uppercut that he slightly wobbled. Normally, in sparring you would ease back a bit at this point. But my competitive spirit took over and I hit him over and over with right uppercuts until he started to sag. Finally the trainer started yelling for me to stop but all that did was make me want to hit him harder and more often. And I did. Just about knocked him out standing up, only his trainer coming to the ring and holding him up stopped him from falling. Sometimes sparring can get out of hand. I like it like that though.
When I was an amateur I weighed 165 pounds and I used to spar with a 139 pounder that was particularly tough. Every time we sparred he would taunt me and say 'That's all you got ??" So this one day, he starts talking crap to me and I am hitting him harder and harder, trying to hurt him. He keeps talking and I keep hitting him harder and harder. He was one of these guys that when you hit him with a good shot he would drop his hands and say "Come on , hit me harder!" . Then, all of sudden I landed a real good right hand and he kind of stiffened up a little bit. It was crazy, I saw that and I smelled blood. I started hitting him harder and harder, the trainer was yelling "Stop! Stop! But I was in a frenzy, throwing punches as fast and hard as I could. I saw that he was hurt and was beginning to fall but something took me over inside and I couldn't stop myself. I didn't stop punching until he was down and out coach was in the ring pulling me away.
A couple guys from the gym had to pick him up and carry him to the bathroom and pour cold water on his face and body to revive him completely. Now, you might think that caused a rift in our friendship but this is boxing and the gym. It was a vicious incident but, honestly, it had no ill effect on our friendship and to this day we are good friends. It was just something that happened in the gym, accepted between two boxers. For him, it was another lesson learned.
Back in June of 1992, I had another couple of real good sessions at the old Times Square Gym in New York City. Middleweight contender, Lamar Parks was getting ready for a fight at Madison Square Garden. So I drove the 2 hours to NYC and went to 42nd St. and Broadway where the gym was located. I loved that gym. It was right in the heart of Manhattan, on the second floor of an old building with a giant window that had the ring right next to it. So people walking along 42nd Street could look up and see you sparring. The gym looked just like something out of those old black and white movies about boxing. It was run down and dirty. Hot and sweaty. Old fight posters all over the walls. Grimy. Just the way I loved it. I had fought and fought and defeated Lamar twice as amateurs but now we were both pros and Lamar was undefeated at the time. We had remained friendly since our amateur days. I remember they asked me how many rounds I wanted to go and I told them as many as they wanted was fine with me.
One thing that I really remember about our 8 rounds of sparring that day was that Lamar had serious power. When we fought as amateurs I knew he had power but back then I boxed and moved a lot more. I didn't give him much of a target and, especially in our second fight, he really didn't hit me very much so I couldn't say if he was really a big hitter or not. But like I said before, when guys are in the gym they are more relaxed and likely to take more punches. As a Pro, for a while I had developed a peek a boo type style, kind of like a Marlon Starling thing where I would walk right to my opponent with my hands up and I would catch the punches on my gloves, arms and elbows. Often times I was able to wear guys out with that style because they would waste so much energy trying to get through my defense, that by the time they realized they were not catching me flush, it was too late. They were already tired. This was exactly the strategy I used to defeat Lamar in our rematch.
Anyway, in the gym that day, I remember I threw a couple right hands at Lamar and he sneakily leaned back away from the right hand and let a whip of a left hook go. I recognized this immediately as the check hook taught by Big Roy (Roy Jone's Jr.'s dad ). Lamar had often trained with Roy in Pensacola and been in the gym with Lil' Roy and Big Roy. The sparring was real good because I was coming right to Lamar, making him fight me hard, while he was trying to counter and was loading up with big shots. I kept my hands up high so I could deflect the shots with my arms and elbows and gloves.
Lamar Parks was not the guy you wanted catching you flush. When the bell rang to end the 8th and final sparring round I remember everybody in the gym appluaded when it was all over, as if it were a real fight. You don't see that too often, especially in a gym like that. I remember former champion "Sweet" Saoul Mamby was there and he was applauding, too. Afterwards different people were telling me 'Man, nobody does 8 rounds like that with Lamar Parks. That's why he doesn't get any sparring here that often." That motivated me. I came back the next day and we did it again. Of all the times I ever went anywhere to spar with a guy , Lamar was the only one that called me afterwards personally to say 'Thank You!'
[Editor's Note: This is an excerpt from a planned upcoming book written by John Scully]
Replies: 6 Comments on this article
A well written and adventurous account on a subject not discussed much.It gives a much needed behind the scenes look at a fundamental aspect of the sport. Thanks Greg
Posted by grgalcaro@AOL.COM">greg @ 12/20/2003 09:06 PM EST
Nice tale John. Keep em comming, I'm sure you have a million of them. Good stuff.
Posted by jduva2000@aol.com">Jay Duval @ 12/18/2003 08:30 AM EST
nice peice of material iceman i have known about you for a long time, i was at the little break out between you and degrandis, at the gloves in the lowell auditorium when the gloves came off. i am looking forward to the book big boxing fanron
Posted by ron stacy @ 12/15/2003 08:11 PM EST
That was a nice read, John!
Thanks,
Juan C. Ayllon
Posted by JuanCAyllon@yahoo.com">Juan C Ayllon @ 12/15/2003 05:41 PM EST
I enjoied the article and would like to read more about your life. It seems to be very exciting. Let me know when it will be available.
FUR
Posted by ThyMadProfessor@aol.com">FUR Kelly @ 12/15/2003 03:30 PM EST
AWESOME
Posted by ADA @ 12/15/2003 12:11 PM EST
